Start menu

[Emrys Davies]

I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.

I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
former but would someone put me out of my misery?

Thanks,
Emrys Davies.

 

[philo]

Re: Start menu


"Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>
> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
> former but would someone put me out of my misery?
>
> Thanks,
> Emrys Davies.
>
>


The start button is really nothing but a shortcut
to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components

 

[Bill Blanton]

Re: Start menu

"Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>
> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
> former but would someone put me out of my misery?

The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in system.ini,
then you get no start menu.

You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the taskbar,
though I don't know that as a fact.

 

[Emrys Davies]

Re: Start menu

"Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
> >
> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I
have
> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part
of
> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is
the
> > former but would someone put me out of my misery?
>
> The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in
system.ini,
> then you get no start menu.
>
> You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the
taskbar,
> though I don't know that as a fact.

Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did
show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to
watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I think
that that happens quite often on Usenet.

Thanks again.
Emrys Davies

 

[Emrys Davies]

Re: Start menu

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> > I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
> >
> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I
have
> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part
of
> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is
the
> > former but would someone put me out of my misery?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Emrys Davies.
> >
> >
>
>
> The start button is really nothing but a shortcut
> to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components

Thanks a lot Philo.

Regards,
Emrys Davies.

 

[Bill Blanton]

Re: Start menu

"Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb83f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
> news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>> >
>> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I
> have
>> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
>> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part
> of
>> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is
> the
>> > former but would someone put me out of my misery?
>>
>> The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in
> system.ini,
>> then you get no start menu.
>>
>> You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the
> taskbar,
>> though I don't know that as a fact.
>
> Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did
> show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to
> watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I think
> that that happens quite often on Usenet.

That happens, though I don't see it much here. Are you posting directly
to the MS servers?

> Thanks again.

YW.

 

[Don Phillipson]

Re: Start menu

"Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

> I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>
> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
> former but would someone put me out of my misery?

On Win98 the Start menu is just a folder like other folders
(i.e. not even a system folder) stored at
c:\windows\start menu
and containing by default subfolders \ accessories and \ programs
each containing short cuts (LNK files) to EXEcutable apps.,
but we can cut from and paste to it however we wish.

E.g. I have mine set up with
c:\windows\start menu containing half a dozen apps I
use most often
and \ accessories and \ programs
but \ programs contains only 14 subfolders,
most of my own creation eg.
Graphics (containing Photoshop, Broderbund Print Shop, MSPaint)
Hardware (backup utilities and drivers for MB, mouse, TV card etc.)
Money (Quicken accounting, income tax etc.)
i.e. I have junked perhaps 20-odd start / programs items that
were created when the apps were installed, and regrouped
under logical headings only those l am likely to use. (My wife
is a naive user but my logical arrangement means she need
not remember any special names.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[FromTheRafters]

Re: Start menu

It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part
of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like
in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe,
or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and
is called a "shell" for the underlying OS.

I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued-
and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it
is not a shell.

I don't have a Win9x machine anymore, but I remember using
the task manager to stop execution of programs and IIRC you
can stop the one responsible for the start button and you get
a animated arrow travelling from right to left telling you how to
click here to start - and when you do you get the button back.

I suspect they are all a part of the explorer.exe program.

"Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>
> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
> former but would someone put me out of my misery?
>
> Thanks,
> Emrys Davies.
>
>

 

[Bill in Co.]

Re: Start menu

FromTheRafters wrote:
> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part
> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like
> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe,
> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and
> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS.
>
> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued-
> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it
> is not a shell.

Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything)
"part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not
"part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by the
operating system, however.

> I don't have a Win9x machine anymore, but I remember using
> the task manager to stop execution of programs and IIRC you
> can stop the one responsible for the start button and you get
> a animated arrow travelling from right to left telling you how to
> click here to start - and when you do you get the button back.
>
> I suspect they are all a part of the explorer.exe program.
>
> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>>
>> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
>> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
>> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
>> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
>> former but would someone put me out of my misery?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Emrys Davies.

 

[FromTheRafters]

Re: Start menu


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> FromTheRafters wrote:
>> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part
>> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like
>> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe,
>> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and
>> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS.
>>
>> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued-
>> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it
>> is not a shell.
>
> Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything)
> "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not
> "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by
> the operating system, however.

Let me rephrase

I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell.

....although it could be argued it is part of the OS

I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things
that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing
and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or
not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was
willing to make. The OP listed the OS as one of the programs
that might be responsible for the start button - of course it is -
especially since the OS is responsible for all the other programs
running on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

 

[Emrys Davies]

Re: Start menu


"Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
news:%23OZUj%23hMJHA.4456@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:48fb83f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> > "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
> > news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message
> > news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> >> >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
> >> >
> >> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part.
I
> > have
> >> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
> >> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is
part
> > of
> >> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it
is
> > the
> >> > former but would someone put me out of my misery?
> >>
> >> The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in
> > system.ini,
> >> then you get no start menu.
> >>
> >> You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the
> > taskbar,
> >> though I don't know that as a fact.
> >
> > Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did
> > show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to
> > watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I
think
> > that that happens quite often on Usenet.
>
> That happens, though I don't see it much here. Are you posting
directly
> to the MS servers?
>
> > Thanks again.

Don't know to whom I am posting except that it is to Usenet.

Regards,
Emrys Davies.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Re: Start menu

FromTheRafters wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part
>>> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like
>>> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe,
>>> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and
>>> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS.
>>>
>>> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued-
>>> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it
>>> is not a shell.
>>
>> Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything)
>> "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not
>> "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by
>> the operating system, however.
>
> Let me rephrase
>
> I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell.
>
> ...although it could be argued it is part of the OS
>
> I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things
> that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing
> and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or
> not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was
> willing to make.

I'll make that call (that OE is not "part of the operating system, per se),
for the reason I mentioned. No problemo.

Now, for something like Windows Explorer, that might be a different story.
Might, as in that might be a bit debateable. But something like the
booting up routines, and the basic core *fundamental* system services of an
operating system, wouldn't be.

> The OP listed the OS as one of the programs
> that might be responsible for the start button - of course it is -
> especially since the OS is responsible for all the other programs
> running on it.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

 

[Jeff Richards]

Re: Start menu

It's not 'nothing but a shortcut'. It's a graphical element with its own
functionality, which includes the ability to display a hierarchy of menu
choices, to consider the current user settings when displaying choices, to
be repositioned, to directly access routines that switch users or shut the
machine down, etc. It is part of Explorer.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> snip <
>
>
> The start button is really nothing but a shortcut
> to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components

 

[FromTheRafters]

Re: Start menu

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uWuLYVlMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> FromTheRafters wrote:
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part
>>>> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like
>>>> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe,
>>>> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and
>>>> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS.
>>>>
>>>> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued-
>>>> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it
>>>> is not a shell.
>>>
>>> Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything)
>>> "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are
>>> not
>>> "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by
>>> the operating system, however.
>>
>> Let me rephrase
>>
>> I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell.
>>
>> ...although it could be argued it is part of the OS
>>
>> I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things
>> that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing
>> and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or
>> not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was
>> willing to make.
>
> I'll make that call (that OE is not "part of the operating system, per
> se), for the reason I mentioned. No problemo.
>
> Now, for something like Windows Explorer, that might be a different story.
> Might, as in that might be a bit debateable. But something like the
> booting up routines, and the basic core *fundamental* system services of
> an operating system, wouldn't be.

I agree. I didn't want to make that call because I didn't want to argue
the point. Some people consider notepad to be part of the OS. The
URL I posted shows how even the UI may or may not be considered
a part of the OS depending on how it is implemented.

A main purpose of an OS for a general purpose computer is that
is helps facilitate the running of programs of the users choice. So
an editor like edit.com may be considered a part of the OS while
notepad.exe may not.

 

[Emrys Davies]

Re: Start menu

"Jeff Richards" <JRichards@msn.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23%23gzQVmMJHA.728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> It's not 'nothing but a shortcut'. It's a graphical element with its
own
> functionality, which includes the ability to display a hierarchy of
menu
> choices, to consider the current user settings when displaying
choices, to
> be repositioned, to directly access routines that switch users or shut
the
> machine down, etc. It is part of Explorer.
> --
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >
> > snip <
> >
> >
> > The start button is really nothing but a shortcut
> > to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components

Thanks everyone. Very enlightening.

Regards,Emrys Davies.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Re: Start menu

In message <48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Emrys Davies
<emrysdavies@lineone.net> writes
>I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6.
>
>I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have
>read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good
>articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of
>Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the
>former but would someone put me out of my misery?
[]
It's not part of Internet Explorer (the web browser), as it remains if
you (completely) remove IE.
It's not part of Outlook Express (the email client), for a similar
reason.
Windows Explorer (the file manager), as opposed to Internet Explorer, is
arguably more part of the operating system than IE and OE. Many people
confuse Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer, due to the similar
names. Just to add to the confusion, the main executable that is running
whenever Windows is running is called explorer.exe.

The start menu - by which I assume you mean that which pops up when you
click the Start button, or press the Windows key on the keyboard - will
pop up without IE or OE being present. As another has said, what
actually is within the Start menu as it pops up is just a folder within
the Windows folder (actually a folder tree).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

"Bother,"saidPoohwhenhisspacebarrefusedtowork.