Terminal Services Basics

[Anwar Mahmood]

Hi All,

Hope someone can help with a basic question. It's probably been
covered many times, but I can't find anything substantial or
definitive...

Looking at Terminal Services on Windows Server 2003/Citrix
Presentation Server 4.5 for the first time. I'm uncertain of the
correct sequence of actions to build a farm.

There will be multiple servers, but only running Office and one or two
other (low intensity) applications.

The most logical sequence to *me* is

- establish "infrastructure" (licensing, data store, etc)
- install Windows Server 2003 SP2
- install and customise the applications
- test the applications (eg with a standard user account using Remote
Administration)

Once all the glitches and refinements have been identified,
- clone the server using WDS and SYSPREP
- on the imaged servers,
- join the domain
- install Terminal Services/Citrix Presentation Server
- publish the applications/desktop

Our organisation tends to refresh the desktop image annually (bunching
together all the software updates into a new image revision). My
sequence above would allow us to do this for our Terminal Services/
Citrix environment in a similar way (at the moment, it's extremely
difficult to make ANY change to the servers!)

Other guidance on the Internet suggests
- install Windows Server 2003 SP2
- patch
- install Terminal Services/(Citrix Presentation Server?)
- install applications (after switching to install mode)
- test the applications
- clone (if you dare!)
- either package up the applications and distribute across the farm,
or install manually

My approach seems far, far simpler; install once, clone, replicate
with 100% fidelity.

Some of you will no doubt be bewildered by the breathtaking level of
ignorance I'm showing... I'd love some URLs on what I SHOULD be
doing, and WHY (preferably according to Microsoft and Citrix)

Kind regards,

Anwar

 

[Anwar Mahmood]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

Hi All,

Found this Microsoft KB article;

Terminal Server Commands CHANGE
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/

This indicates the change install command copies user registry
settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the system,
so when a new user runs an application (who didn't install it) that
depends on registry and INI settings, Windows looks for them it will
look in the user's profile, then in the system.

This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's
absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the install/testing
phase, and added to the default user profile. After all, something
like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY* because not all INI files and
registry values will be created at install time.

Kind regards,

Anwar

 

[Vera Noest [MVP]]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

Anwar, your approach would be much simpler, if it would work. But
unfortunately, it won't.
You *must* install TS / Citrix first and then the applications,
because you have to put the server into "install mode" before
installing applications, and install mode is only available after
you have installed TS.

You will in fgact get a warning when you install TS, that all
previously installed applications will stop functioning and that
you will have to re-install them after installing TS.
No this is not 100% true for all applications (for example, if you
have a backupclient installed on the server it will probably
continue to work), but no application which is installed before you
install TS will have multi-user functionality.
_________________________________________________________
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
*----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------*

Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008:

> Hi All,
>
> Hope someone can help with a basic question. It's probably been
> covered many times, but I can't find anything substantial or
> definitive...
>
> Looking at Terminal Services on Windows Server 2003/Citrix
> Presentation Server 4.5 for the first time. I'm uncertain of
> the correct sequence of actions to build a farm.
>
> There will be multiple servers, but only running Office and one
> or two other (low intensity) applications.
>
> The most logical sequence to *me* is
>
> - establish "infrastructure" (licensing, data store, etc)
> - install Windows Server 2003 SP2
> - install and customise the applications
> - test the applications (eg with a standard user account using
> Remote
> Administration)
>
> Once all the glitches and refinements have been identified,
> - clone the server using WDS and SYSPREP
> - on the imaged servers,
> - join the domain
> - install Terminal Services/Citrix Presentation Server
> - publish the applications/desktop
>
> Our organisation tends to refresh the desktop image annually
> (bunching together all the software updates into a new image
> revision). My sequence above would allow us to do this for our
> Terminal Services/ Citrix environment in a similar way (at the
> moment, it's extremely difficult to make ANY change to the
> servers!)
>
> Other guidance on the Internet suggests
> - install Windows Server 2003 SP2
> - patch
> - install Terminal Services/(Citrix Presentation Server?)
> - install applications (after switching to install mode)
> - test the applications
> - clone (if you dare!)
> - either package up the applications and distribute across the
> farm,
> or install manually
>
> My approach seems far, far simpler; install once, clone,
> replicate with 100% fidelity.
>
> Some of you will no doubt be bewildered by the breathtaking
> level of ignorance I'm showing... I'd love some URLs on what I
> SHOULD be doing, and WHY (preferably according to Microsoft and
> Citrix)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Anwar

 

[Vera Noest [MVP]]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

I think that you are creating a lot of unnecessary problems for
yourself by trying to do things opposite as they are designed to
work.
Yes, you can monitor all changes to the file system and registry
during installation, but simply adding them to the default user
profile will only fix it for new users. You'll have to import them
into existing user profiles as well.
And doing so in a logon script has it's problems to, because you
also need to record the timestamp (you don't want to import the
same setting twice and override user-made changes with your second
import).
The mechanism which takes care of all these details by design is
"install mode", and I wouldn't want to re-invent it with my own
methods. But I'm also sure that it is possible to do it your way,
given enough time and perseverance.
_________________________________________________________
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
*----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------*

Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008:

> Hi All,
>
> Found this Microsoft KB article;
>
> Terminal Server Commands CHANGE
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/
>
> This indicates the change install command copies user registry
> settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the
> system, so when a new user runs an application (who didn't
> install it) that depends on registry and INI settings, Windows
> looks for them it will look in the user's profile, then in the
> system.
>
> This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's
> absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the
> install/testing phase, and added to the default user profile.
> After all, something like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY*
> because not all INI files and registry values will be created at
> install time.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Anwar

 

[Jeff Pitsch]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

I'm failing to see how installing apps before TS is better and easier
than after? How exactly how you going to test the applications to make
sure they work properly in a multiuser environment before hand? It
simply won't work.

And I have to agree with Vera, why completely recreate the wheel? yes
you could do it your way but how are you going to adjust the registry
properly for ini files and then you have to manually copy them to the
windows directory in the users home directory......

Seems a lot of work for absolutely no reason whatsoever. maybe you
could post why you think putting applications on before TS is better
than after, maybe that would give us something to work with.

Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Services

Vera Noest [MVP] wrote:
> I think that you are creating a lot of unnecessary problems for
> yourself by trying to do things opposite as they are designed to
> work.
> Yes, you can monitor all changes to the file system and registry
> during installation, but simply adding them to the default user
> profile will only fix it for new users. You'll have to import them
> into existing user profiles as well.
> And doing so in a logon script has it's problems to, because you
> also need to record the timestamp (you don't want to import the
> same setting twice and override user-made changes with your second
> import).
> The mechanism which takes care of all these details by design is
> "install mode", and I wouldn't want to re-invent it with my own
> methods. But I'm also sure that it is possible to do it your way,
> given enough time and perseverance.
> _________________________________________________________
> Vera Noest
> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
> *----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------*
>
> Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Found this Microsoft KB article;
>>
>> Terminal Server Commands CHANGE
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/
>>
>> This indicates the change install command copies user registry
>> settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the
>> system, so when a new user runs an application (who didn't
>> install it) that depends on registry and INI settings, Windows
>> looks for them it will look in the user's profile, then in the
>> system.
>>
>> This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's
>> absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the
>> install/testing phase, and added to the default user profile.
>> After all, something like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY*
>> because not all INI files and registry values will be created at
>> install time.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Anwar

 

[Anwar Mahmood]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

Thanks to Jeff and Vera for taking the time to reply.

I'll certainly take this feedback on board. The approach I mentioned
was, if you like, an "outsider's" perspective. It is also to give us
some greater flexibililty; a new server could be built from the
"ground up" in a non-TS focussed way, then added to the farm.
(Historically, we've had immense difficulty even *patching* stuff, so
my approach would be a huge step forward)

Have a great weekend!

Anwar

 

[Jeff Pitsch]

Re: Terminal Services Basics

I don't understand what you mean. Why would you build any other server
with desktop applications? How are you gaining flexibility?

Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Services

Anwar Mahmood wrote:
> Thanks to Jeff and Vera for taking the time to reply.
>
> I'll certainly take this feedback on board. The approach I mentioned
> was, if you like, an "outsider's" perspective. It is also to give us
> some greater flexibililty; a new server could be built from the
> "ground up" in a non-TS focussed way, then added to the farm.
> (Historically, we've had immense difficulty even *patching* stuff, so
> my approach would be a huge step forward)
>
> Have a great weekend!
>
> Anwar