Re: Don Phillipson - where are you? Why don't you respond? (Win98 is built atop MS-DOS)
Re: Don Phillipson - where are you? Why don't you respond? (Win98 is built atop MS-DOS)
Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> 98 Guy wrote:
|>> PCR wrote:
|>>
|>>> Put your interpellations in the right threads, 98 Guy! I agree
|>>> with Phillipson on that!
|>>
|>> I tried that, but Don didn't respond to the original thread.
|>>
|>> So to get his attention, I tried again - in threads he was
|>> participating in. But I changed the subject so there should have
|>> been no confusion / disruption to those threads anyways.
|>
|> OK, I see that now-- you did change the subject. That's a horse of a
|> different color. OK, then. I'm staying out of the argument, but
|> probably I do agree with you that Win98 is an OS all its own. It may
|> depend on BIOS, but not on DOS.
|
| Is that completely true? That NONE of the dos exe, dll, (or
| whatever) programs are being used, or have a resident footprint in
| memory in windows? Are you sure?
I have a fat book that says Win98 is its own OS! Also, 98 Guy found a
helpful MS TechNet article...
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win98/reskit/part5/wrkc26.mspx?mfr=true
........Quote...............
Technical Notes on MS-DOS Components in Windows 98
Many users have wondered whether Windows 98 contains MS-DOS code and, if
so, whether that means that Windows 98 is somehow built on top of
MS-DOS. Many of these questions relate to how Windows 98 achieves the
highest possible degree of compatibility with existing devices and
applications created for MS-DOS and Windows 3.x.
....snip...
Some functions, however, are handled by MS-DOS code, although the code
itself is running in virtual 8086 mode, not real mode. Functions
implemented in this manner ensure backward compatibility with existing
real-mode software, such as the Novell NetWare client.
....snip...
An important example of how Windows 98 reclaims memory from real-mode
device drivers is MSCDEX, the CD-ROM driver. After Windows 98 Setup is
completed and Windows 98 starts from the hard disk for the first time,
special code runs to determine whether the protected-mode compact disc f
ile system (CDFS) drivers have taken over the CD-ROM drive completely.
If so, the real-mode MSCDEX driver in memory is matched to the related
lines in Autoexec.bat, and the MSCDEX entries are then commented out.
This provides a trail in Autoexec.bat to show what has happened. Similar
methods are used for other device drivers that Windows 98 knows to be
safe to remove, such as other vendors' real-mode disk cache utilities
and redundant protected-mode virtual device drivers (VxDs).
As a final example, some users have wondered whether the fact that
Io.sys loads Win.com (rather than loading Vmm32.vxd directly) is an
indication that Windows 98 is built on Windows 3.x code, with the
addition of new VxDs. Actually, Io.sys is used to load Win.com only to
ensure backward compatibility. Certain real-mode drivers and
terminate-and-stay-resident (TSR) programs insert themselves at various
places in the Windows 3.1 startup process. If Windows 98 were to bypass
the loading of Win.com and instead load VxDs directly, any driver that
needs to insert itself when Win.com is loaded would never be called.
Instead, Windows 98 starts in precisely the same way as Windows 3.1 and
loads the same components in the same order, ensuring compatibility with
earlier versions of applications and device drivers.
........EOQ..................
So...
(a) The DOS in a Windows DOS box is a part of Win98 & it runs in virtual
mode not real mode.
(b) Real mode DOS device drivers loaded in Autoexec.bat are removed when
Win98 starts for the first time. Win98 doesn't use them.
It does seem to be true some device drivers may escape (b) & remain as
TSRs (Terminate & Stay Resident) for backward compatibility reasons. But
it is unclear to me that those are actually running on DOS. They were
loaded by DOS, but who knows whether they need DOS after that? Anyhow,
it WON'T mean Win98 is built on DOS-- but just that Win98 will tolerate
drivers that are DOS-dependent.
| I do know that there are some 16
| bit processes still running, but that may be tangential to this.
Yes, I can see those in "START, Run, DrWatson, 16-bit Modules tab". I'm
not sure what that's about. One day I swear I will investigate! HOWEVER,
I can think Win98 is running them in 32-bit, protected mode no matter.
One of them after all is... KB891711.exe-- a fairly recent critical
update! Also, I see KB918574.exe is there.
|> If one boots to DOS, one has a DOS machine. But
|> once Win98 is loaded, it takes over completely. It cannot be
|> controlled by DOS.
|
| I don't like the expression "controlled by", whatever that means.
| How about whether or not ANY of the DOS based exe, dll, or whatever,
| programs or code are resident in memory?
I think that would just prove WIN98 is DOS-tolerant!
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net