Okay Ive download the DX9 developers library... seems that for all the samples (and maybe the reason some of my games never worked right) the only way they display faster than <1fps is to use D3DDEVTYPE_HAL rather than D3DDEVTYPE_REF... many of the samples dont allow me to chose the HAL redering device so Im SOL on those... what basically are these two devices, why does it make such a big differance in the fps speed, and will this be a hinderance to my programming endevours? I have a ATI Radeon 7500 series with 4x AGP on the motherboard... thanks.