New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

[Mark Stoker]

We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.

Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
problems.

i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
service usally does the job getting it to print.

ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
printer and they cannot print.

This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?

Mark

 

[Jeff Pitsch]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

Unfortunately i did not find that driver in hp's terminal services
compatibility document
(http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-8465ENW.pdf). you may
want to use printer redirection and map it to a compatible driver:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=239088

Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
Citrix Technology Professional
Provision Networks VIP

Forums not enough?
Get support from the experts at your business
http://jeffpitschconsulting.com

Mark Stoker wrote:
> We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
> retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
> attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.
>
> Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
> problems.
>
> i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
> seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
> service usally does the job getting it to print.
>
> ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
> removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
> printer and they cannot print.
>
> This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
> TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
>
> Mark

 

[Mark Stoker]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems



"Jeff Pitsch" wrote:

> Unfortunately i did not find that driver in hp's terminal services
> compatibility document
> (http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-8465ENW.pdf). you may
> want to use printer redirection and map it to a compatible driver:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=239088
>
> Jeff Pitsch
> Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> Citrix Technology Professional
> Provision Networks VIP
>
> Forums not enough?
> Get support from the experts at your business
> http://jeffpitschconsulting.com
>
> Mark Stoker wrote:
> > We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
> > retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
> > attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.
> >
> > Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
> > problems.
> >
> > i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
> > seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
> > service usally does the job getting it to print.
> >
> > ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
> > removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
> > printer and they cannot print.
> >
> > This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
> > TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
> >
> > Mark
>

Just for interest, what causes the spooler to hang i.e why are they not
compatable ?

 

[Mark Stoker]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

Looking at the HP document the P2010 Printer is listed. However on the HP web
site the P2010 is a 'series' of printers and If you chosse the driver for the
P2010 it gives you the P2014 driver ??

"Jeff Pitsch" wrote:

> Unfortunately i did not find that driver in hp's terminal services
> compatibility document
> (http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-8465ENW.pdf). you may
> want to use printer redirection and map it to a compatible driver:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=239088
>
> Jeff Pitsch
> Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> Citrix Technology Professional
> Provision Networks VIP
>
> Forums not enough?
> Get support from the experts at your business
> http://jeffpitschconsulting.com
>
> Mark Stoker wrote:
> > We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
> > retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
> > attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.
> >
> > Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
> > problems.
> >
> > i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
> > seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
> > service usally does the job getting it to print.
> >
> > ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
> > removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
> > printer and they cannot print.
> >
> > This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
> > TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
> >
> > Mark
>

 

[Jeff Pitsch]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

And of course I may simply have missed it. Are you using the
correct version of the driver? That can be just as important. Not all
print drivers are compatible with terminal services because of the
multi-user nature of terminal services. What your experiencing sounds
like a classic case of a bad print driver.

Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
Citrix Technology Professional
Provision Networks VIP

Forums not enough?
Get support from the experts at your business
http://jeffpitschconsulting.com

Mark Stoker wrote:
> Looking at the HP document the P2010 Printer is listed. However on the HP web
> site the P2010 is a 'series' of printers and If you chosse the driver for the
> P2010 it gives you the P2014 driver ??
>
> "Jeff Pitsch" wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately i did not find that driver in hp's terminal services
>> compatibility document
>> (http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-8465ENW.pdf). you may
>> want to use printer redirection and map it to a compatible driver:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=239088
>>
>> Jeff Pitsch
>> Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
>> Citrix Technology Professional
>> Provision Networks VIP
>>
>> Forums not enough?
>> Get support from the experts at your business
>> http://jeffpitschconsulting.com
>>
>> Mark Stoker wrote:
>>> We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
>>> retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
>>> attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.
>>>
>>> Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
>>> seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
>>> service usally does the job getting it to print.
>>>
>>> ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
>>> removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
>>> printer and they cannot print.
>>>
>>> This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
>>> TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
>>>
>>> Mark

 

[Mark Stoker]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

Jeff

There only seems to be 1 version of the software on the HP site
(http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...sId=3322555&swLang=8&taskId=135&swEnvOID=1005)

I have set up the same printer on our test server and so far I have not been
able to make it crash.

The users on the live system have also reported very long log off times (up
to 10mins) when they try and log off the terminal after experiencing the
printer problem.

We have other users with identical set-up's that have experienced no
problems at all.

Very frustrating !!

Mark

"Jeff Pitsch" wrote:

> And of course I may simply have missed it. Are you using the
> correct version of the driver? That can be just as important. Not all
> print drivers are compatible with terminal services because of the
> multi-user nature of terminal services. What your experiencing sounds
> like a classic case of a bad print driver.
>
> Jeff Pitsch
> Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> Citrix Technology Professional
> Provision Networks VIP
>
> Forums not enough?
> Get support from the experts at your business
> http://jeffpitschconsulting.com
>
> Mark Stoker wrote:
> > Looking at the HP document the P2010 Printer is listed. However on the HP web
> > site the P2010 is a 'series' of printers and If you chosse the driver for the
> > P2010 it gives you the P2014 driver ??
> >
> > "Jeff Pitsch" wrote:
> >
> >> Unfortunately i did not find that driver in hp's terminal services
> >> compatibility document
> >> (http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-8465ENW.pdf). you may
> >> want to use printer redirection and map it to a compatible driver:
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=239088
> >>
> >> Jeff Pitsch
> >> Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> >> Citrix Technology Professional
> >> Provision Networks VIP
> >>
> >> Forums not enough?
> >> Get support from the experts at your business
> >> http://jeffpitschconsulting.com
> >>
> >> Mark Stoker wrote:
> >>> We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one of our
> >>> retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014 printers
> >>> attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003 driver.
> >>>
> >>> Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the following
> >>> problems.
> >>>
> >>> i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print job
> >>> seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print spooler
> >>> service usally does the job getting it to print.
> >>>
> >>> ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is not
> >>> removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2 instances of the
> >>> printer and they cannot print.
> >>>
> >>> This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run Windows 2000
> >>> TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
> >>>
> >>> Mark
>

 

[TP]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

Hi Mark,

This printer is a host based printer, and as such is not a good
TS printer (unless you are using a 3rd party universal printer
driver solution). It will use much more CPU and bandwidth for
each print job when compared to a printer that has the native
ability to understand & process PCL or PS.

Another down side of host based printers is that you do not
have the flexibility to map to a more basic driver like the HP
LaserJet 4. Mapping to a basic driver is a common technique
if the manufacturer-supplied driver is not TS compatible. The
basic drivers often produce smaller print jobs as well and are
fine for many business document needs.

I did a quick test for you to illustrate what I mean. I opened a
43KB text file in notepad, and printed it to the P2014 host
based driver. The document was 12 pages.

The amount of print data that downloaded to my workstation
was 1,487KB!! In addition, CPU usage on the TS was heavy
during the entire time the print job was downloading to the client.

Next I printed the same file from Notepad to an HP P2015
PCL 5 driver.

The amount of print data that downloaded to my workstation
was only 128KB!! There was a brief spike in CPU usage while
the 12 pages were spooled from notepad, but then it went
back to 0% afterwards.

If you have several users printing on your TS, using a host
based printer could quickly bring the server to a crawl because
of the CPU and/or bandwidth used.

The above test was relatively basic. Real world printing will
involve multiple fonts, colors, some graphics, which will amplify
the problem.

NOTE: When I ran the test with the P2014 I noticed strange
behavior. After the notepad print job completed downloading
I noticed many "phantom" print jobs accumulating in my local
print queue. In just 30 seconds I had over 100 jobs sitting there.

When I attempted to log off of the server it took several
*minutes*, hanging on "Executing C:\WINDOWS\system32\wlnotify.dll".
Normally logoffs are instant. I have extended messages enabled
on this test server or else I would not have known where in the
logoff process it was hanging.

Based on my own direct observations and your description of
problems I would say this driver is *not* TS compatible.

-TP

Mark Stoker wrote:
> We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one
> of our retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014
> printers attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003
> driver.
>
> Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the
> following problems.
>
> i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print
> job seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print
> spooler service usally does the job getting it to print.
>
> ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is
> not removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2
> instances of the printer and they cannot print.
>
> This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run
> Windows 2000 TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
>
> Mark

 

[Mark Stoker]

Re: New 2003 Installation with RDP Printing Problems

TP

Thanks for the details explanation (and your time). Yes, the driver does
seem to be the root of the problem.

I'm just looking at the 'ThinPrint' solution which seems to involve
by-passing the driver.

Regards

Mark

"TP" wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> This printer is a host based printer, and as such is not a good
> TS printer (unless you are using a 3rd party universal printer
> driver solution). It will use much more CPU and bandwidth for
> each print job when compared to a printer that has the native
> ability to understand & process PCL or PS.
>
> Another down side of host based printers is that you do not
> have the flexibility to map to a more basic driver like the HP
> LaserJet 4. Mapping to a basic driver is a common technique
> if the manufacturer-supplied driver is not TS compatible. The
> basic drivers often produce smaller print jobs as well and are
> fine for many business document needs.
>
> I did a quick test for you to illustrate what I mean. I opened a
> 43KB text file in notepad, and printed it to the P2014 host
> based driver. The document was 12 pages.
>
> The amount of print data that downloaded to my workstation
> was 1,487KB!! In addition, CPU usage on the TS was heavy
> during the entire time the print job was downloading to the client.
>
> Next I printed the same file from Notepad to an HP P2015
> PCL 5 driver.
>
> The amount of print data that downloaded to my workstation
> was only 128KB!! There was a brief spike in CPU usage while
> the 12 pages were spooled from notepad, but then it went
> back to 0% afterwards.
>
> If you have several users printing on your TS, using a host
> based printer could quickly bring the server to a crawl because
> of the CPU and/or bandwidth used.
>
> The above test was relatively basic. Real world printing will
> involve multiple fonts, colors, some graphics, which will amplify
> the problem.
>
> NOTE: When I ran the test with the P2014 I noticed strange
> behavior. After the notepad print job completed downloading
> I noticed many "phantom" print jobs accumulating in my local
> print queue. In just 30 seconds I had over 100 jobs sitting there.
>
> When I attempted to log off of the server it took several
> *minutes*, hanging on "Executing C:\WINDOWS\system32\wlnotify.dll".
> Normally logoffs are instant. I have extended messages enabled
> on this test server or else I would not have known where in the
> logoff process it was hanging.
>
> Based on my own direct observations and your description of
> problems I would say this driver is *not* TS compatible.
>
> -TP
>
> Mark Stoker wrote:
> > We have just installed a new 2003 R2 terminal server solution in one
> > of our retail stores. We are using Wyse S30 terminal with HP P2014
> > printers attached via the USB connection. I am using the Windows 2003
> > driver.
> >
> > Most of the time the users can print fine but we have seen the
> > following problems.
> >
> > i) If say the printer jams and the user has the intervene the print
> > job seems the get 'stuck' in the print queue. Re-starting the print
> > spooler service usally does the job getting it to print.
> >
> > ii) Sometimes when the users logs off the instance of the printer is
> > not removed. Subsequetly when the user logs back in there are 2
> > instances of the printer and they cannot print.
> >
> > This is our 1st 2003 installation (our other 10 stores all run
> > Windows 2000 TS) and the printing is letting us down - any thoughts ?
> >
> > Mark
>