NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

[Penny]

I have an NT 4 machine that suddenly won't boot. I tried repairing the NT
installation but the machine doesn't see the hard drive. Does anyone know if
it's an option to slave the hard drive to another machine with a different OS
to attempt to get files off of it? I don't have another NT machine available.

Then there's running chkdsk I've got a windows 2000 machine I can slave it
too, would that work?

 

[John John]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

Penny wrote:

> I have an NT 4 machine that suddenly won't boot. I tried repairing the NT
> installation but the machine doesn't see the hard drive. Does anyone know if
> it's an option to slave the hard drive to another machine with a different OS
> to attempt to get files off of it? I don't have another NT machine available.
>
> Then there's running chkdsk I've got a windows 2000 machine I can slave it
> too, would that work?

If the files are intact and the disk is functioning you can mount the
disk in a Windows 2000/XP machine and salvage your files.

In your case, being that the NT4 installation has failed, it is a good
way to attempt to recuperate your files. Other readers should be warned
that this is generally not recommended if you are attempting to repair
and keep an NT4 installation. When you mount an NT4 disk in a Windows
2000 machine Windows 2000 will automatically convert the NT4 NTFS
version to Windows 2000's NTFS version 3.0. The NTFS version conversion
is irreversible. If the NT4 installation has service pack 4 or latter
it will still be able to read the newer NTFS version 3.0, if the
installation doesn't have at least Service Pack 4 it will be unable to
read the files on the converted volume.

While NT4 with later service pack can read and write to the newer NTFS
version, it may not properly read and apply certain NTFS security
descriptors and it may not properly handle inheritance and other NTFS
security settings. Furthermore, NT4 disk tools such as Chkdsk and
Autochk do not work on NTFS volumes upgraded by Windows 2000. Being
that you only want to salvage your files this is not of any concern to
you, if you reinstall NT4 you can simply copy the files back to the
rebuilt disk and you will not have problems with this. Also, this does
not apply if the NT volume is FAT16.

If you have a Windows 2000 CD you can boot the NT4 computer with it and
try to run chkdsk or do other tasks from the Recovery Console. I stand
to be corrected but I do not believe that the Recovery Console changes
the NTFS version.

John

 

[Penny]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

I think the disk itself is bad. I have been told that this machine doesn't
have to be NT so I'm going to replace the failed disk, and in the process am
going to slave the bad disk to another machine to recoup the files if I can.

"John John" wrote:

> Penny wrote:
>
> > I have an NT 4 machine that suddenly won't boot. I tried repairing the NT
> > installation but the machine doesn't see the hard drive. Does anyone know if
> > it's an option to slave the hard drive to another machine with a different OS
> > to attempt to get files off of it? I don't have another NT machine available.
> >
> > Then there's running chkdsk I've got a windows 2000 machine I can slave it
> > too, would that work?
>
> If the files are intact and the disk is functioning you can mount the
> disk in a Windows 2000/XP machine and salvage your files.
>
> In your case, being that the NT4 installation has failed, it is a good
> way to attempt to recuperate your files. Other readers should be warned
> that this is generally not recommended if you are attempting to repair
> and keep an NT4 installation. When you mount an NT4 disk in a Windows
> 2000 machine Windows 2000 will automatically convert the NT4 NTFS
> version to Windows 2000's NTFS version 3.0. The NTFS version conversion
> is irreversible. If the NT4 installation has service pack 4 or latter
> it will still be able to read the newer NTFS version 3.0, if the
> installation doesn't have at least Service Pack 4 it will be unable to
> read the files on the converted volume.
>
> While NT4 with later service pack can read and write to the newer NTFS
> version, it may not properly read and apply certain NTFS security
> descriptors and it may not properly handle inheritance and other NTFS
> security settings. Furthermore, NT4 disk tools such as Chkdsk and
> Autochk do not work on NTFS volumes upgraded by Windows 2000. Being
> that you only want to salvage your files this is not of any concern to
> you, if you reinstall NT4 you can simply copy the files back to the
> rebuilt disk and you will not have problems with this. Also, this does
> not apply if the NT volume is FAT16.
>
> If you have a Windows 2000 CD you can boot the NT4 computer with it and
> try to run chkdsk or do other tasks from the Recovery Console. I stand
> to be corrected but I do not believe that the Recovery Console changes
> the NTFS version.
>
> John
>

 

[John John]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

That sounds like a good plan, good luck.

John

Penny wrote:

> I think the disk itself is bad. I have been told that this machine doesn't
> have to be NT so I'm going to replace the failed disk, and in the process am
> going to slave the bad disk to another machine to recoup the files if I can.
>
> "John John" wrote:
>
>
>>Penny wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have an NT 4 machine that suddenly won't boot. I tried repairing the NT
>>>installation but the machine doesn't see the hard drive. Does anyone know if
>>>it's an option to slave the hard drive to another machine with a different OS
>>>to attempt to get files off of it? I don't have another NT machine available.
>>>
>>>Then there's running chkdsk I've got a windows 2000 machine I can slave it
>>>too, would that work?
>>
>>If the files are intact and the disk is functioning you can mount the
>>disk in a Windows 2000/XP machine and salvage your files.
>>
>>In your case, being that the NT4 installation has failed, it is a good
>>way to attempt to recuperate your files. Other readers should be warned
>>that this is generally not recommended if you are attempting to repair
>>and keep an NT4 installation. When you mount an NT4 disk in a Windows
>>2000 machine Windows 2000 will automatically convert the NT4 NTFS
>>version to Windows 2000's NTFS version 3.0. The NTFS version conversion
>>is irreversible. If the NT4 installation has service pack 4 or latter
>>it will still be able to read the newer NTFS version 3.0, if the
>>installation doesn't have at least Service Pack 4 it will be unable to
>>read the files on the converted volume.
>>
>>While NT4 with later service pack can read and write to the newer NTFS
>>version, it may not properly read and apply certain NTFS security
>>descriptors and it may not properly handle inheritance and other NTFS
>>security settings. Furthermore, NT4 disk tools such as Chkdsk and
>>Autochk do not work on NTFS volumes upgraded by Windows 2000. Being
>>that you only want to salvage your files this is not of any concern to
>>you, if you reinstall NT4 you can simply copy the files back to the
>>rebuilt disk and you will not have problems with this. Also, this does
>>not apply if the NT volume is FAT16.
>>
>>If you have a Windows 2000 CD you can boot the NT4 computer with it and
>>try to run chkdsk or do other tasks from the Recovery Console. I stand
>>to be corrected but I do not believe that the Recovery Console changes
>>the NTFS version.
>>
>>John
>>

 

[Calvin]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

Hi John,

I've just had an email discussion with a person over the last couple of
days about the problems created by the conversion of NTFS to V3.0 by
later incarnations of Windows.

Apparently there was a hotfix released by Microsoft that replaced chkdsk
and autodsk with 'new' versions that solved the incompatibility issues.

It was hotfix Q872952 - as per most hotfixes that were not 'generally
distributed' by Microsoft however, you had to ask for it, and it was
delivered in a .exe (.zip self extracting) archive encrypted with a
password.

I have managed to find the .exe archive 195326_ENU_i386_zip.exe but of
course - no password :-( Nobody seems to know or recall what the
password was !

Perchance do you know ? I was hoping to keep an archived copy of this
hotfix handy, in case anyone wanted it.

I wasn't planning to implement it myself, the old saying applies - it
ain't broke, don't fix it. There was some talk about the time that this
hotfix was released that in fact, as per usual with Microsoft, they had
screwed it up and it didn't work properly anyway ! The knowledgebase
article is still on the Microsoft site and still refers to the hotfix,
and there is no mention of possible problems. Any comments ?

All the best,

Calvin.

 

[John John]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

Calvin wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I've just had an email discussion with a person over the last couple of
> days about the problems created by the conversion of NTFS to V3.0 by
> later incarnations of Windows.
>
> Apparently there was a hotfix released by Microsoft that replaced chkdsk
> and autodsk with 'new' versions that solved the incompatibility issues.
>
> It was hotfix Q872952 - as per most hotfixes that were not 'generally
> distributed' by Microsoft however, you had to ask for it, and it was
> delivered in a .exe (.zip self extracting) archive encrypted with a
> password.
>
> I have managed to find the .exe archive 195326_ENU_i386_zip.exe but of
> course - no password :-( Nobody seems to know or recall what the
> password was !
>
> Perchance do you know ? I was hoping to keep an archived copy of this
> hotfix handy, in case anyone wanted it.
>
> I wasn't planning to implement it myself, the old saying applies - it
> ain't broke, don't fix it. There was some talk about the time that this
> hotfix was released that in fact, as per usual with Microsoft, they had
> screwed it up and it didn't work properly anyway ! The knowledgebase
> article is still on the Microsoft site and still refers to the hotfix,
> and there is no mention of possible problems. Any comments ?

No, I have never needed the hotfix and I don't know the password.
kb/872952 says that SP4 actually changes NTFS version to Windows 2000
version. I didn't know that, I was under the impression that SP4
changed the ntfs driver instead of the ntfs version
itself...interesting. As far as finding the password, brute force tools
is all that I can think of. Brute force and a computer with time to
spare! A job for Deep Blue!

John

 

[Penny]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

Just an FYI. I was unable to recoup any files from the old hard drive, which
confirms what I originally suspected. The hard drive is in fact bad.
Although that in itself is bad news, it gave me an opportunity to get rid of
an operating system I really don't want to have to support.

Thanks again John, this isn't the first time you have given me advice and
I'm hoping it won't be the last.


"John John" wrote:

> Calvin wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I've just had an email discussion with a person over the last couple of
> > days about the problems created by the conversion of NTFS to V3.0 by
> > later incarnations of Windows.
> >
> > Apparently there was a hotfix released by Microsoft that replaced chkdsk
> > and autodsk with 'new' versions that solved the incompatibility issues.
> >
> > It was hotfix Q872952 - as per most hotfixes that were not 'generally
> > distributed' by Microsoft however, you had to ask for it, and it was
> > delivered in a .exe (.zip self extracting) archive encrypted with a
> > password.
> >
> > I have managed to find the .exe archive 195326_ENU_i386_zip.exe but of
> > course - no password :-( Nobody seems to know or recall what the
> > password was !
> >
> > Perchance do you know ? I was hoping to keep an archived copy of this
> > hotfix handy, in case anyone wanted it.
> >
> > I wasn't planning to implement it myself, the old saying applies - it
> > ain't broke, don't fix it. There was some talk about the time that this
> > hotfix was released that in fact, as per usual with Microsoft, they had
> > screwed it up and it didn't work properly anyway ! The knowledgebase
> > article is still on the Microsoft site and still refers to the hotfix,
> > and there is no mention of possible problems. Any comments ?
>
> No, I have never needed the hotfix and I don't know the password.
> kb/872952 says that SP4 actually changes NTFS version to Windows 2000
> version. I didn't know that, I was under the impression that SP4
> changed the ntfs driver instead of the ntfs version
> itself...interesting. As far as finding the password, brute force tools
> is all that I can think of. Brute force and a computer with time to
> spare! A job for Deep Blue!
>
> John
>

 

[John John]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

Sorry to hear that you couldn't recover the files on the disk. Did you
try running a chkdsk or a repair utility from the disk manufacturer on
the drive? Thanks for the kind words, always glad to help, or try to
help when I can.

John

Penny wrote:

> Just an FYI. I was unable to recoup any files from the old hard drive, which
> confirms what I originally suspected. The hard drive is in fact bad.
> Although that in itself is bad news, it gave me an opportunity to get rid of
> an operating system I really don't want to have to support.
>
> Thanks again John, this isn't the first time you have given me advice and
> I'm hoping it won't be the last.
>
>
> "John John" wrote:
>
>
>>Calvin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi John,
>>>
>>>I've just had an email discussion with a person over the last couple of
>>>days about the problems created by the conversion of NTFS to V3.0 by
>>>later incarnations of Windows.
>>>
>>>Apparently there was a hotfix released by Microsoft that replaced chkdsk
>>>and autodsk with 'new' versions that solved the incompatibility issues.
>>>
>>>It was hotfix Q872952 - as per most hotfixes that were not 'generally
>>>distributed' by Microsoft however, you had to ask for it, and it was
>>>delivered in a .exe (.zip self extracting) archive encrypted with a
>>>password.
>>>
>>>I have managed to find the .exe archive 195326_ENU_i386_zip.exe but of
>>>course - no password :-( Nobody seems to know or recall what the
>>>password was !
>>>
>>>Perchance do you know ? I was hoping to keep an archived copy of this
>>>hotfix handy, in case anyone wanted it.
>>>
>>>I wasn't planning to implement it myself, the old saying applies - it
>>>ain't broke, don't fix it. There was some talk about the time that this
>>>hotfix was released that in fact, as per usual with Microsoft, they had
>>>screwed it up and it didn't work properly anyway ! The knowledgebase
>>>article is still on the Microsoft site and still refers to the hotfix,
>>>and there is no mention of possible problems. Any comments ?
>>
>>No, I have never needed the hotfix and I don't know the password.
>>kb/872952 says that SP4 actually changes NTFS version to Windows 2000
>>version. I didn't know that, I was under the impression that SP4
>>changed the ntfs driver instead of the ntfs version
>>itself...interesting. As far as finding the password, brute force tools
>>is all that I can think of. Brute force and a computer with time to
>>spare! A job for Deep Blue!
>>
>>John
>>

 

[Penny]

Re: NT 4 machine hard drive trouble

I tried running recovery from the NT setup CD but it didn't even detect the
disk.


"John John" wrote:

> Sorry to hear that you couldn't recover the files on the disk. Did you
> try running a chkdsk or a repair utility from the disk manufacturer on
> the drive? Thanks for the kind words, always glad to help, or try to
> help when I can.
>
> John
>
> Penny wrote:
>
> > Just an FYI. I was unable to recoup any files from the old hard drive, which
> > confirms what I originally suspected. The hard drive is in fact bad.
> > Although that in itself is bad news, it gave me an opportunity to get rid of
> > an operating system I really don't want to have to support.
> >
> > Thanks again John, this isn't the first time you have given me advice and
> > I'm hoping it won't be the last.
> >
> >
> > "John John" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Calvin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi John,
> >>>
> >>>I've just had an email discussion with a person over the last couple of
> >>>days about the problems created by the conversion of NTFS to V3.0 by
> >>>later incarnations of Windows.
> >>>
> >>>Apparently there was a hotfix released by Microsoft that replaced chkdsk
> >>>and autodsk with 'new' versions that solved the incompatibility issues.
> >>>
> >>>It was hotfix Q872952 - as per most hotfixes that were not 'generally
> >>>distributed' by Microsoft however, you had to ask for it, and it was
> >>>delivered in a .exe (.zip self extracting) archive encrypted with a
> >>>password.
> >>>
> >>>I have managed to find the .exe archive 195326_ENU_i386_zip.exe but of
> >>>course - no password :-( Nobody seems to know or recall what the
> >>>password was !
> >>>
> >>>Perchance do you know ? I was hoping to keep an archived copy of this
> >>>hotfix handy, in case anyone wanted it.
> >>>
> >>>I wasn't planning to implement it myself, the old saying applies - it
> >>>ain't broke, don't fix it. There was some talk about the time that this
> >>>hotfix was released that in fact, as per usual with Microsoft, they had
> >>>screwed it up and it didn't work properly anyway ! The knowledgebase
> >>>article is still on the Microsoft site and still refers to the hotfix,
> >>>and there is no mention of possible problems. Any comments ?
> >>
> >>No, I have never needed the hotfix and I don't know the password.
> >>kb/872952 says that SP4 actually changes NTFS version to Windows 2000
> >>version. I didn't know that, I was under the impression that SP4
> >>changed the ntfs driver instead of the ntfs version
> >>itself...interesting. As far as finding the password, brute force tools
> >>is all that I can think of. Brute force and a computer with time to
> >>spare! A job for Deep Blue!
> >>
> >>John
> >>
>
>