Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

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AllenM

Guest
I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients environment
where we will be installing software and assisting them in setting up
terminal and remote services. I'm not 100% sure of all the logistics but I'm
going to give all the details as I know.

This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2 Standard -
64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as we will be installing
Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as Citrix Web Interface for remote
access. So Citrix licensing part is easy. no problem there concerning
licensing. Here's where I'm a bit confused as to the proper licensing they
need to be legally licensed.

Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there. They will be
accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via Citrix. I know what you're
thinking and that is why if they are in the office do they need to access
the server remotely and my answer to you is "because". Trust me I really
don't understand there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there
are going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to access
this server to be able to update and input information into the dedicated
program that will reside on this Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if
they plan on using 1 generic guest account for all or if they plan on
creating domain or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be
using guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections? Again I'm
not sure but again would imagine no and that because they are only buying 50
Citrix licenses I'm thinking the concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I
mention that theconnections will be nationally as some internationally?
So here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and it's
probably way off base.

50 Citrix licenses
50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's
50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or

Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the Windows Server
2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing instead? And if so is it
necessary to purchase the 50 Windows 2003 server User/CAL's.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft Licensing
number for customers who need assistance regarding legal licensing issues.
Thanks in advance to all.
 
Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that Citrix
licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.

So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50
concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total
number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs and TS
CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single generic or
guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have to count
persons (when using Per User licensing).

So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User CALs
and TS CALs.

But then there's the question of the External Connector Licensing.
That's difficult to say without knowing more about the type of
remote users. From the
Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricl
icfaq.mspx

Q. Who qualifies as an External User?

A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or similar
personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not someone to
whom you provide hosted services using the server software.

Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you
would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC and
the TS (and every other server the users might access), and they
would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12 persons
in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS CAL,
though, because they are employees.

But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.
Here's the contact information you are looking for:

Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx

_________________________________________________________
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

"AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in
microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients
> environment where we will be installing software and assisting
> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%
> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the details
> as I know.
>
> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2
> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as
> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as
> Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing part
> is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's where I'm
> a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need to be
> legally licensed.
>
> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.
> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via
> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they are
> in the office do they need to access the server remotely and my
> answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't understand
> there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there are
> going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to
> access this server to be able to update and input information
> into the dedicated program that will reside on this
> Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan on using 1
> generic guest account for all or if they plan on creating domain
> or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be using
> guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections?
> Again I'm not sure but again would imagine no and that because
> they are only buying 50 Citrix licenses I'm thinking the
> concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I mention that
> theconnections will be nationally as some internationally? So
> here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and
> it's probably way off base.
>
> 50 Citrix licenses
> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's
> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or
>
> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the
> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing
> instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the 50 Windows
> 2003 server User/CAL's.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft
> Licensing number for customers who need assistance regarding
> legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.
 
Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

Vera thank you very much. I am aware that Citrix licenses are for concurrent
connections and that the home office users would require CAL's as well as TS
CAL's. Now my understanding is that these other remote users are not
employees. Best yet I explain what the server is and what it is going to be
used for. This server is going to be used to run a clinical trial software
program. The "external" users will be doctors and physicians who are
participating in this study and will be accessing the server to input
patient information. Being that we are FDA regulated and we do want to
comply with FDA standards I'm going to suggest that these doctors all have
their own login credentials for security and auditing purposes. Highly
unlikely there will be more than 50 c0ncurrent users on at the same time.
The home office "eployees" will be the ones accessing the server and
compliling all this data into the progam. So yes I do understand that they
will need server CAL's as well as TS CAL's. My concern was what to do with
all these other "external" users. Thanks for he input and thanks for the
link.


"Vera Noest [MVP]" <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:Xns9A37D982F4D54veranoesthemutforsse@207.46.248.16...
> One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that Citrix
> licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.
>
> So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50
> concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total
> number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs and TS
> CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single generic or
> guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have to count
> persons (when using Per User licensing).
>
> So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User CALs
> and TS CALs.
>
> But then there's the question of the External Connector Licensing.
> That's difficult to say without knowing more about the type of
> remote users. From the
> Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricl
> icfaq.mspx
>
> Q. Who qualifies as an External User?
>
> A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or similar
> personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not someone to
> whom you provide hosted services using the server software.
>
> Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you
> would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC and
> the TS (and every other server the users might access), and they
> would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12 persons
> in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS CAL,
> though, because they are employees.
>
> But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.
> Here's the contact information you are looking for:
>
> Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist
> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Vera Noest
> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___
>
> "AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in
> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:
>
>> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients
>> environment where we will be installing software and assisting
>> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%
>> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the details
>> as I know.
>>
>> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2
>> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as
>> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as
>> Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing part
>> is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's where I'm
>> a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need to be
>> legally licensed.
>>
>> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.
>> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via
>> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they are
>> in the office do they need to access the server remotely and my
>> answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't understand
>> there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there are
>> going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to
>> access this server to be able to update and input information
>> into the dedicated program that will reside on this
>> Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan on using 1
>> generic guest account for all or if they plan on creating domain
>> or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be using
>> guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections?
>> Again I'm not sure but again would imagine no and that because
>> they are only buying 50 Citrix licenses I'm thinking the
>> concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I mention that
>> theconnections will be nationally as some internationally? So
>> here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and
>> it's probably way off base.
>>
>> 50 Citrix licenses
>> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's
>> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or
>>
>> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the
>> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing
>> instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the 50 Windows
>> 2003 server User/CAL's.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft
>> Licensing number for customers who need assistance regarding
>> legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.
 
Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

You're welcome, Allen!
I would certainly ask a Microsoft licensing specialist to decide if
those users are to be regarded as External users.

_________________________________________________________
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

"AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in
microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> Vera thank you very much. I am aware that Citrix licenses are
> for concurrent connections and that the home office users would
> require CAL's as well as TS CAL's. Now my understanding is that
> these other remote users are not employees. Best yet I explain
> what the server is and what it is going to be used for. This
> server is going to be used to run a clinical trial software
> program. The "external" users will be doctors and physicians who
> are participating in this study and will be accessing the server
> to input patient information. Being that we are FDA regulated
> and we do want to comply with FDA standards I'm going to suggest
> that these doctors all have their own login credentials for
> security and auditing purposes. Highly unlikely there will be
> more than 50 c0ncurrent users on at the same time. The home
> office "eployees" will be the ones accessing the server and
> compliling all this data into the progam. So yes I do understand
> that they will need server CAL's as well as TS CAL's. My concern
> was what to do with all these other "external" users. Thanks for
> he input and thanks for the link.
>
>
> "Vera Noest [MVP]" <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote
> in message
> news:Xns9A37D982F4D54veranoesthemutforsse@207.46.248.16...
>> One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that
>> Citrix licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.
>>
>> So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50
>> concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total
>> number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs
>> and TS CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single
>> generic or guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have
>> to count persons (when using Per User licensing).
>>
>> So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User
>> CALs and TS CALs.
>>
>> But then there's the question of the External Connector
>> Licensing. That's difficult to say without knowing more about
>> the type of remote users. From the
>> Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pr
>> icl icfaq.mspx
>>
>> Q. Who qualifies as an External User?
>>
>> A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or
>> similar personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not
>> someone to whom you provide hosted services using the server
>> software.
>>
>> Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you
>> would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC
>> and the TS (and every other server the users might access), and
>> they would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12
>> persons in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS
>> CAL, though, because they are employees.
>>
>> But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.
>> Here's the contact information you are looking for:
>>
>> Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist
>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx
>>
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Vera Noest
>> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
>> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
>> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___
>>
>> "AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in
>> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:
>>
>>> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients
>>> environment where we will be installing software and assisting
>>> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%
>>> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the
>>> details as I know.
>>>
>>> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2
>>> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as
>>> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well
>>> as Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing
>>> part is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's
>>> where I'm a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need
>>> to be legally licensed.
>>>
>>> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.
>>> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via
>>> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they
>>> are in the office do they need to access the server remotely
>>> and my answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't
>>> understand there reasoning either. Now from what I understand
>>> there are going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee
>>> clients needing to access this server to be able to update and
>>> input information into the dedicated program that will reside
>>> on this Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan
>>> on using 1 generic guest account for all or if they plan on
>>> creating domain or local accounts for them all. My guess is
>>> they will be using guest account. Now will these all be
>>> concurrent connections? Again I'm not sure but again would
>>> imagine no and that because they are only buying 50 Citrix
>>> licenses I'm thinking the concurrent connections will be 50.
>>> Oh did I mention that theconnections will be nationally as
>>> some internationally? So here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!!
>>> Here's what I'm thinking and it's probably way off base.
>>>
>>> 50 Citrix licenses
>>> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's
>>> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or
>>>
>>> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the
>>> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector
>>> licensing instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the
>>> 50 Windows 2003 server User/CAL's.
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800
>>> Microsoft Licensing number for customers who need assistance
>>> regarding legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.
 
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