Re: "Error loading KERNEL" message
"Olin K. McDaniel" <mcdanielo.abcd@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:47a7305e.1118393@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
| On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 03:39:49 -0500, "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com>
| wrote:
| >"Olin K. McDaniel" <mcdanielo.abcd@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| >news:47a4ecf2.283194@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
| >| OK, I'll provide what I can, but it will be impossible to remember all
| >| the things you asked, since this has been an ongoing problem for over
| >| 3 weeks.
| >|
| >| First - the exact message was stated in my original post, i.e. "Error
| >| loading KERNEL. You must reinstall Windows". That's it, no more, no
| >| less.
| >
| > Okay, I have had that occur more than once...
| >
| >|
| >| The newly installed motherboard is a Biostar P4M80-M4. I can provide
| >| lots more details if needed here.
| >
| > Not a the moment, this will allow background review of drivers/etc..
| >
| >OS support - Win98SE/ME/NT4/2K/XP/64 - onsite drivers seem to be
| >2004/5-7[XP/64]
| >
| >
http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=p4m80-m4 - general
| >description
| >
ftp://ftp.biostar-usa.com/manuals/P4M80-M4/P4M80M4manual.pdf - manual
| >
| > Looks like a nice board for 98. Not thrilled with the S3 on-board video
| >though.. but that's just me..
|
| I do not currently use the on-board video nor the sound. I do use the
| on-board LAN for DSL though, as opposed to a PCI card before upgrading
| motherboards.
Okay, so there are also third party sound and video drivers to consider.
Anything else that might be non-standard/of interest?
|
| > To clarify for the group, BootMagic is/was part of PartionMagic.
| >
| >|
| >| The NEW hard drive is a Seagate 160 GB "Barracuda" ATA HD, 7200 RPM,
| >| which I used approx. 6 months in another computer, and removed it to
| >| install a 500 GB SATA in that unit. This 160 GB was then reformatted
| >| and used as the destination disk for cloning from the failing 160 GB
| >| ATA, 7200 Maxtor drive which is at least 3 years old now.
| >
| > Okay, just to clarify, though you mention a 500gig drive we are NOT
talking
| >about it as part of the issues.
|
| That is correct. The 500 GB SATA drive was installed in another
| computer that I use for different purposes.
| >
| > The two drives at issue are 160 gig. One was apparently failing and
relaced
| >by the Seagate. Was that drive 'cut" to the 137 gig barrier or is it full
| >capacity?
| >
| Let's go back thru how things had to be done. First of all, the old
| motherboard DID have the 137 GB limit, so - the "old" 160 GB drive
| (which was the Maxtor, incidentally) was limited by the motherboard's
| 137 limit.
Okay, here's part of an issue, as I indicated we are now contending with
two different BIOSes and different translation tables. As the drives were
never official "cut" by manufacturer software or via a pin, the 'old' drive
could never extend beyond that barrier "in 9X" WITHOUT error, though 2k
MIGHT have been using the extended area using HAL not the BIOS. This could
be part of why you thought the drive was failing in the first place, both
the BIOS and 98 were incapable of handling the larger drive. IF you used
PartitionMagic to setup the drive, you may have created a 160/'as modified'
drive [not talking partitions but total], which, if accessed via 98 would
have caused drive errors.
So the first partition was/is 2k, the next what? DOS or 9X? Or perhaps a
better question, what is the drive layout?
|
| Then after upgrading the motherboard, that Maxtor drive was still
| unexpanded, even though I could have. That's when I used Acronis True
| Image to clone that drive, plus the other 2 drives. I cloned that
| Maxtor "EXACTLY" as it existed to the new Seagate - all this being
| done under Windows 2000 since that's where I installed Acronis.
Okay. W2k was used as the 'master' OS to *exact* [sector by sector] clone
the drive, to the new UNCUT 160 gig drive using the NEW BIOS and translation
which supports larger drives. Most might think that's fine, but here's the
issue, the MBR, BPB, .FAT tables, and some other, ALL contain the old
drives' sectoring as WHERE everything is located. That's the old drive NOT
the new tranlation. 2k [if it can start] will make modifications to its
tables when first started, 9X and DOS won't until something like Scandisk is
used. For those who think otherwise: Oh, it may start and run for awhile,
but somewhere down the road things are going to break.
When changing actual drives and/or manufacturers, its best to just
transfer/mage used sectors and then run whatever tool to reset the
tables/sectoring.
EXACT imaging/transfering works best upon the original drive which was
cloned/imaged or an exact replacement on the SAME motherboard, at least with
the tools I have used. And always, as I have indicated, run some drive
'clarification/scan' tool PRIOR to attempting to start any OS. Doing this
also gives the opportunity to reset the various partitions/sectoring [hence
my prior comment on the boot manager].
|
| Next, I swapped the 160 GB drives, and at some point (no longer am
| able to remember exactly when) I used Partition Magic to expand the
| top partition of the drive containing Win2000 (but the NEW DRIVE
| ONLY) to fill up the Unallocated space. All this may or may not be
| important, but at the present time, the "Old" drive is still
| unexpanded, and the "New" drive is expanded. That's exactly why I
| keep asking if that expansion is what screwed up the "New" drive, by
| messing up the MBR or something else. So far, no one has answered
| that question for me.
DO NOT expand the old drive yet!
Well, we all know you expected us to give you a one or two message answer,
but that's not going to happen.
WHY? Because you failed to give us ALL the information we needed. Both Glen
and PCR pulled more necessary information, and that's WHY Glen says to do
what he suggested with the registry NOW. Removing the old motherboard
drivers and registry entries will VASTLY decrease errors and issues.
It should have been done to start with, but that's Okay, now will help.
NOTE SPECIFICALLY: you will need to re-install all the MB specific and other
drivers again in 9X.
As for the expansion:
98 is limited to a standard 137 gig or thereabouts [unless you want to use
DOS compatability mode {BIOS}] by its supplied driver. There MAY [emphasis]
be issues with the expanded drive depending upon a number of things.
IF the motherboard has drivers [modified esdi_506.pdr or special
application] for 9X for the larger drive capability you will likely be Okay,
but regretfully I have no personal knowledge of that particular board and
drivers, and did not pull those drivers to review.
The issue is:
IF the board did/does have drivers for 9X and large drives, then they MUST
be properly installed. As the 9X registry presently stands, there may be
conflicts between the old board drivers and the new, and the driver [if
supplied] will likely not work properly.
As the board was sold as supporting 9X, you might check the PDF/manual to
see if it did/does support [had/has drivers for] large drives in 9X or what
the limitation is. There are some modified 'drivers' available if the board
doesn't supply any, let us know.
|
| > Was the Maxtor "cut" or was it allowed to remain at full capacity?
|
| See above answers.
| >
| > Also, was the machine the Seagate was pulled from XP or VISTA?
| >
| NEGATIVE! I refuse to use either of those. It was pulled from a
| machine using Windows 2000 Professional.
Good, though are some disk issues with 2k, no where near those related to
the newer OSs.
|
| > These questions are to determine potentials.
|
| Hope my answers suffice.
We're getting there, now all you need to understand is that we ARE trying
to help you. Please do as Glen suggested and as I have indicated. BOTH
issues [OS and drive] are relevant. Believe it or not we'd like to see you
running a 'stable' multi-platform computer, that's hardware and OSs.
| >
| >|
| >| Now, your next 2 questions are not easy ones to answer with any
| >| certainty, since getting this entire system to work in all aspects has
| >| forced me to try many, many things - some of which might have added to
| >| my woes, admittedly. But as said in my original post, the new
| >| motherboard demanded that it go through a complete setup where it
| >| looked for drivers that I never expected. And it required my
| >| inserting the CD provided with it, to get its own drivers. I failed
| >| to keep record of what all this was. HOWEVER, when things got really
| >| screwed up, I actually pulled out the new drive and stuck the old
| >| failing one back in to check it out. The motherboard forced me to go
| >| thru the same setup of looking for drivers that suited it, etc. And
| >| it had a few problems also, but I got lucky and overcame them - all
| >| but one! That one concerns Boot Magic, which does not come up
| >| automatically, BUT if I use the Boot Magic 8.0 Rescue Disk, I can
| >| choose which system to boot under. And then all 3 OS's run just as
| >| they did earlier. SO, the "old failing" drive boots ok in Win 98 as
| >| well as Win 2K and DOS. That's when I tried cloning over from that
| >| old one (ONLY the W98 partition, though) to the new one. I did this
| >| many different ways, and many different selected files from the backup
| >| of the old drive's partition. So far, none of this has solved the
| >| problem with the ERROR message on the New drive, as far as W98 is
| >| concerned. Again, BOTH drives boot up and run fine in Win2K.
| >
| > Okay, two others have provided suggestions, Glen [and PCR] directs to
some
| >viable issues [cleaning old drivers] to attempt to start with. Perhaps he
| >will again place the Registry entries suggested at removal when making
major
| >changes in the 9X OS due to hardware changes. This will mean
re-installing
| >the MB drivers and other AGAIN.
| >
| > PCR caught the issues with the Boot, and I'll add that depending upon
how
| >the drive was cloned [what you chose to image], and formatted, the Boot
| >partition [BootMagic] may not be properly setup [clusters/sectors may be
off
| >or other]. Manufactures use differring adapter chips and routines, and
the
| >BIOS will translate somewhat differently, BootMagic may be having
| >difficulties. Reinstalling/reconfiguring the boot manager, if possible
| >without destroying the data/files, might help; though Scandisk will
| >sometimes correct those issues if not to drastic [you have all
| >OSs/partitions as either Fat16 or 32 correct?]. 2K can better handle
| >cluster/sector issues [self-repair], but that leaves DOS and 98 out in
the
| >cold.
| >
| >|
| >| Remember, the above answer is partially related to the New drive, and
| >| partially related to the Old drive. Both currently have a problem,
| >| but the problem with the Old one is easy to live with - stick in the
| >| BM Rescue disk. But that problem with the New one is intolerable, I
| >| cannot use W98 on the New drive.
| >
| > I certainly hope you changed/checked the BIOS when you installed the new
| >drive. If the drives are set to AUTO detect then you can negate that
issue,
| >though hopefully you also checked the other settings.as well.
| >
| >|
| >| Now, let me ask a question out of total frustration. Is it possible
| >| the Master Boot Record (MBR) got screwed up on the New one? And if
| >| so, how to check and/or repair?
| >
| > Possible, but let's deal with these other potential fixes first.
| >
| >|
| >| Finally, if I have a complete backup of both Win98 partitions off both
| >| these drives - as they exist now, would it be useful to reformat the
| >| New drive and do a New installation from the original factory CD, then
| >| Restore from one of these backups? Or would I be right back where I
| >| am now?
| >
| > The clean install would be the best recourse, but once you over-install
| >[copying the old over the new], you're right back here again. The issues
| >seem to relate to the drive layout and the registry. Work through the
| >suggestions and Post back with issues or results.
| >
| >|
| >| After all this time, I'm willing to try the above, just groping for
| >| straws if it has a chance of working.
| >|
| >| Olin McDaniel
| >|
| >
| >--
| >
| >MEB
| >
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| >_________
| >
| >| >"Olin K. McDaniel" <mcdanielo.abcd@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
| >| >news:47a3a6c2.4965099@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
| >| >| Hopefully this won't get too longwinded, but as a bit of background,
I
| >| >| recently upgraded my hardware and wanted to keep all the software as
| >| >| before. I installed a new M.B. and CPU to go from a 600MHz Pentium
3
| >| >| unit to a 2.6 GHz Celeron unit. Also I cloned over the multiboot
| >| >| OS's from drive 1 to another HD, since the older one was showing
signs
| >| >| of failing. The program used for cloning was Acronis True Image.
| >| >| There were 3 OS's on Drive 1, and they also are now on the newly
| >| >| installed HDD. The heart of the multiboot system is Powerquest's
Boot
| >| >| Magic, that has worked wonderfully for years. The 3 OS's are DOS
6.22
| >| >| (rarely used anymore), Windows 98SE (most heavily used) and Windows
| >| >| 2000 Pro (used somewhat).
| >| >|
| >| >| The problem developed subsequent to several days of allowing the new
| >| >| M.B. and CPU to install all its drivers, etc.
| >| >|
| >| >| Essentially, I cannot boot up (on the NEW Hard Disk 1) into Win98SE
in
| >| >| Normal mode - I get an error message that says "Error loading
KERNEL.
| >| >| You must reinstall Windows". BUT - much to my annoyance, it WILL
| >| >| boot up fully in SAFE mode. Nothing that I've tried has cleared up
| >| >| this anomaly. I've followed the procedure found on MS's web site
| >| >| which tells me to "extract Kernel32.dll" from my installation CD and
| >| >| copy it to the folder Windows\System\, all to no avail, after
multiple
| >| >| efforts. In addition, I've copied it over from the presumed
"failing"
| >| >| hard drive, again with no success. I'm about ready to throw in the
| >| >| towel - hopefully, someone can give me an out. Before someone asks,
| >| >| there is NO problem booting up in Win2000 on this drive.
| >| >|
| >| >| Finally, as a further frustating fact, I can still do the multiboot
if
| >| >| I swap out the new HD 1 to the old failing one. But I don't trust
it
| >| >| lasting much longer.
| >| >|
| >| >| I'm admittedly out of ideas - and if it should be a problem with the
| >| >| MBR, then I don't know how to repair it.
| >| >|
| >| >| Sorry it got this long - and it may not have all the useful info
| >| >| someone might think would lead to a clue. If so, please tell me
what
| >| >| to check.
| >| >|
| >| >| Thanks, Olin McDaniel
| >| >|
|
| To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
| -----------------------------------------------------
| "Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
| the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________