Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

[Bob]

'opefully there is still time for me to learn to control our WinMe
computer. I've noticed since I got to messing around with it, that
System Restore points dissappearing for no reason I was aware of. I
don't run some of the Disk Cleaning Utilities nearly as much as I used
to. I used to Defragment alot (every night) because I had seen how
disk (file) fragmentation can degrade system response time.

Back then I never used System Restore points - was barely aware they
existed. It also seemed I never needed them.

Nowadays things have changed (Dunno why / wish I did)
System Restore points can really save your system.

In these circumstances, I am pretty sure that the Defragment utility
destroys Restore points.

Can some one please clarify this situation?

HTH
Bob from Oceanside

 

[Dapper Dan]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Bob

This NG is getting quieter and quieter so not sure if one of the guru's will
appear with expert knowledge. In the meantime, rest assured that disk
defragging does not negatively impact System Restore. The first thing to
check is to ensure that you have the patch for SR, namely KB290700.

HTH

Dan

SierraBrother@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e42c91d1-97b2-4fff-bd7b-8e19c60ae5e8@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> 'opefully there is still time for me to learn to control our WinMe
> computer. I've noticed since I got to messing around with it, that
> System Restore points dissappearing for no reason I was aware of. I
> don't run some of the Disk Cleaning Utilities nearly as much as I used
> to. I used to Defragment alot (every night) because I had seen how
> disk (file) fragmentation can degrade system response time.
>
> Back then I never used System Restore points - was barely aware they
> existed. It also seemed I never needed them.
>
> Nowadays things have changed (Dunno why / wish I did)
> System Restore points can really save your system.
>
> In these circumstances, I am pretty sure that the Defragment utility
> destroys Restore points.
>
> Can some one please clarify this situation?
>
> HTH
> Bob from Oceanside

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


Bob <SierraBrother@gmail.com> wrote:

> 'opefully there is still time for me to learn to control our WinMe
> computer. I've noticed since I got to messing around with it, that
> System Restore points dissappearing for no reason I was aware of.

One good reason for this is obviously your messing about

> I
> don't run some of the Disk Cleaning Utilities nearly as much as I used
> to. I used to Defragment alot (every night) because I had seen how
> disk (file) fragmentation can degrade system response time.
>
> Back then I never used System Restore points - was barely aware they
> existed. It also seemed I never needed them.
>
> Nowadays things have changed (Dunno why / wish I did)
> System Restore points can really save your system.
>
> In these circumstances, I am pretty sure that the Defragment utility
> destroys Restore points.
>
> Can some one please clarify this situation?

Answer. Stop fiddling <g> and instead explain exactly what is happening.
You have provided no details, no error messages, nothing other than
admitting you fiddled with your system and that system restore now no
longer works.

Meanwhile may I suggest you try the following quick test the results of
which might give a clue as to what is happening.

a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file.
b) Create a manual checkpoint
Could you create a checkpoint?
c) Delete the shortcut
d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created.
Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages?
e) Reboot your PC
Was the checkpoint retained?
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:ebsqBeObIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> Bob <SierraBrother@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 'opefully there is still time for me to learn to control our WinMe
> > computer. I've noticed since I got to messing around with it, that
> > System Restore points dissappearing for no reason I was aware of.
>
> One good reason for this is obviously your messing about
>
> > I
> > don't run some of the Disk Cleaning Utilities nearly as much as I used
> > to. I used to Defragment alot (every night) because I had seen how
> > disk (file) fragmentation can degrade system response time.
> >
> > Back then I never used System Restore points - was barely aware they
> > existed. It also seemed I never needed them.
> >
> > Nowadays things have changed (Dunno why / wish I did)
> > System Restore points can really save your system.
> >
> > In these circumstances, I am pretty sure that the Defragment utility
> > destroys Restore points.
> >
> > Can some one please clarify this situation?
>
> Answer. Stop fiddling <g> and instead explain exactly what is happening.
> You have provided no details, no error messages, nothing other than
> admitting you fiddled with your system and that system restore now no
> longer works.
>
> Meanwhile may I suggest you try the following quick test the results of
> which might give a clue as to what is happening.
>
> a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file.
> b) Create a manual checkpoint
> Could you create a checkpoint?
> c) Delete the shortcut
> d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created.
> Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages?
> e) Reboot your PC
> Was the checkpoint retained?

Don't mean to interfere, Mike, but oddly enough the same thing happened to
me after my last defragmentation with 'Diskeeper Light', I lost all of my
restore points and only realized the reason, when reading this post. I
followed your recommended procedure and was unable to retain the checkpoint,
the shortcut remained in the recycle bin and was not reproduced on the
desktop..
There were no error messages and the reboot is automatic.
Nothing else seems to be wrong.
<H>.

> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Harry,

I personally doubt that running diskeeper light has much to do with your
problem otherwise we would have seen many such reports over the last eight
years. Defragging a system doesn't delete files from the system restore
archive. You say you were unable to retain a checkpoint after rebooting
your system. Something else is at play here, probably something you run
each time you boot your system but in the absence of information I'll
leave it to you to establish what that might be.

> shortcut remained in the recycle bin

As I would expect. System Restore has no interest in the recycle bin nor
its contents. Restored files are not restored from the recycle bin but
rather from the system restore archive.
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com


webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't mean to interfere, Mike, but oddly enough the same thing
> happened to me after my last defragmentation with 'Diskeeper Light',
> I lost all of my restore points and only realized the reason, when
> reading this post. I followed your recommended procedure and was
> unable to retain the checkpoint, the shortcut remained in the recycle
> bin and was not reproduced on the desktop..
> There were no error messages and the reboot is automatic.
> Nothing else seems to be wrong.
> <H>.

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:eNuGJ1RbIHA.5248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Harry,
>
> I personally doubt that running diskeeper light has much to do with your
> problem otherwise we would have seen many such reports over the last eight
> years. Defragging a system doesn't delete files from the system restore
> archive. You say you were unable to retain a checkpoint after rebooting
> your system.

My mistake, I phrased it wrong: I was unable to retain the shortcut within
the checkpoint, it stayed in the recycle bin.
Since I don't have any problems creating a System CheckPoint and System
Restore works fine otherwise, I'll have to be on the look-out for any
inconsistencies in this area.
Thanks for the enlightenment, Mike.

Harry.

> Something else is at play here, probably something you run
> each time you boot your system but in the absence of information I'll
> leave it to you to establish what that might be.
>
> > shortcut remained in the recycle bin
>
> As I would expect. System Restore has no interest in the recycle bin nor
> its contents. Restored files are not restored from the recycle bin but
> rather from the system restore archive.
> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't mean to interfere, Mike, but oddly enough the same thing
> > happened to me after my last defragmentation with 'Diskeeper Light',
> > I lost all of my restore points and only realized the reason, when
> > reading this post. I followed your recommended procedure and was
> > unable to retain the checkpoint, the shortcut remained in the recycle
> > bin and was not reproduced on the desktop..
> > There were no error messages and the reboot is automatic.
> > Nothing else seems to be wrong.
> > <H>.
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

At the risk of repeating myself THE RECYCLE BIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
SYSTEM RESTORE. System Restore does not use the recycle bin, it does not
undelete files from the recycle bin. After eight years I would have hoped
that you would know this.

> My mistake, I phrased it wrong: I was unable to retain the shortcut
> within the checkpoint, it stayed in the recycle bin.

Nonsensical. A checkpoint is exactly that, a snapshot frozen in time of
the state of the system at that point. So if snapshot/checkpoint "A" was
made when the shortcut/file or whatever was present, then if subsequently
the shortcut or file is deleted, restoring to snapshot/checkpoint "A" will
restore the deleted file or shortcut regardless of whether it is in the
recycle bin PROVIDED that the file is a) of a type monitored by system
restore (and shortcuts are) and b) the file/shortcut is in a monitored
location such as the desktop unless you have chosen to modify filelist.xml
and exclude that location.
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com


webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> My mistake, I phrased it wrong: I was unable to retain the shortcut
> within the checkpoint, it stayed in the recycle bin.
> Since I don't have any problems creating a System CheckPoint and
> System Restore works fine otherwise, I'll have to be on the look-out
> for any inconsistencies in this area.
> Thanks for the enlightenment, Mike.

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:uB%23QN0SbIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> At the risk of repeating myself THE RECYCLE BIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
> SYSTEM RESTORE. System Restore does not use the recycle bin, it does not
> undelete files from the recycle bin. After eight years I would have hoped
> that you would know this.
>
> > My mistake, I phrased it wrong: I was unable to retain the shortcut
> > within the checkpoint, it stayed in the recycle bin.
>
> Nonsensical. A checkpoint is exactly that, a snapshot frozen in time of
> the state of the system at that point. So if snapshot/checkpoint "A" was
> made when the shortcut/file or whatever was present, then if subsequently
> the shortcut or file is deleted, restoring to snapshot/checkpoint "A" will
> restore the deleted file or shortcut regardless of whether it is in the
> recycle bin PROVIDED that the file is a) of a type monitored by system
> restore (and shortcuts are) and b) the file/shortcut is in a monitored
> location such as the desktop unless you have chosen to modify filelist.xml
> and exclude that location.

Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
I don't go into details, as modifying filelist.xml and the like.

> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My mistake, I phrased it wrong: I was unable to retain the shortcut
> > within the checkpoint, it stayed in the recycle bin.
> > Since I don't have any problems creating a System CheckPoint and
> > System Restore works fine otherwise, I'll have to be on the look-out
> > for any inconsistencies in this area.
> > Thanks for the enlightenment, Mike.
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?

Yes, Shortcuts to a file or folder have a (hidden) LNK extension whereas
those to sites have a (hidden) URL extension. System Restore only
monitors LNK files, not URL files as it has no interest in user data,
That is why, in my initial post, I stated "a) Create a shortcut on your
desktop to a file" rather than a shortcut to an internet location or site

Repeating myself briefly.
Create shortcut
Create checkpoint to a file on the system
Delete shortcut
Rollback to checkpoint
The checkpoint should now be restored.
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com


webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
> I don't go into details, as modifying filelist.xml and the like.

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Correction (Thanks G or perhaps that should be webster999)
> Create checkpoint to a file on the system
should, of course, have read
Create SHORTCUT to a file on the system.

Se what you're doing to me now Harry? I just can't even think straight
any more! <vbg>
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Mike M <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:

>> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
>
> Yes, Shortcuts to a file or folder have a (hidden) LNK extension
> whereas those to sites have a (hidden) URL extension. System Restore
> only monitors LNK files, not URL files as it has no interest in user
> data, That is why, in my initial post, I stated "a) Create a shortcut
> on your desktop to a file" rather than a shortcut to an internet
> location or site
> Repeating myself briefly.
> Create shortcut
> Create checkpoint to a file on the system
> Delete shortcut
> Rollback to checkpoint
> The checkpoint should now be restored.
>
>> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
>> I don't go into details, as modifying filelist.xml and the like.

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:OLmzZ5WbIHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Correction (Thanks G or perhaps that should be webster999)
> > Create checkpoint to a file on the system
> should, of course, have read
> Create SHORTCUT to a file on the system.
>
> Se what you're doing to me now Harry? I just can't even think straight
> any more! <vbg>

My sentiments also, exactly, Mike.
I've gotten the drift on this by now and let you know where I stand when I'm
done.
Thanks, <H>.

> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> Mike M <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:
>
> >> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
> >
> > Yes, Shortcuts to a file or folder have a (hidden) LNK extension
> > whereas those to sites have a (hidden) URL extension. System Restore
> > only monitors LNK files, not URL files as it has no interest in user
> > data, That is why, in my initial post, I stated "a) Create a shortcut
> > on your desktop to a file" rather than a shortcut to an internet
> > location or site
> > Repeating myself briefly.
> > Create shortcut
> > Create checkpoint to a file on the system
> > Delete shortcut
> > Rollback to checkpoint
> > The checkpoint should now be restored.
> >
> >> Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
> >> I don't go into details, as modifying filelist.xml and the like.
>

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:%23$luZ4VbIHA.4140@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
>
> Yes, Shortcuts to a file or folder have a (hidden) LNK extension whereas
> those to sites have a (hidden) URL extension. System Restore only
> monitors LNK files, not URL files as it has no interest in user data,
> That is why, in my initial post, I stated "a) Create a shortcut on your
> desktop to a file" rather than a shortcut to an internet location or site
>
> Repeating myself briefly.
> Create shortcut
> Create checkpoint to a file on the system
> Delete shortcut
> Rollback to checkpoint
> The checkpoint should now be restored.

Restored it was, Mike, thank you, and leaving me with the conclusion, that
the removal of checkpoints must have been 'periodical', because nothing else
is effected negatively in any way.
I don't mind at all seeing my problems solved in this fashion.
<H>.

> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Did I pick the wrong subject for the shortcut (Google website)?
> > I don't go into details, as modifying filelist.xml and the like.
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> Restored it was, Mike, thank you, and leaving me with the conclusion,
> that the removal of checkpoints must have been 'periodical', because
> nothing else is effected negatively in any way.
> I don't mind at all seeing my problems solved in this fashion.
> <H>.

Good. A result. I'd only be worried if your checkpoints regularly go
missing rather than just occasionally. How much space do you have
allocated to the archive? If a relatively small amount, as I do here,
then making a sequence of installs or uninstalls in close succession or if
using system restore to roll back through several checkpoints can cause
most checkpoints to be flushed unless the space allocated to the archive
is temporarily increased whilst all this activity is going on.
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:ehd7B2abIHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Restored it was, Mike, thank you, and leaving me with the conclusion,
> > that the removal of checkpoints must have been 'periodical', because
> > nothing else is effected negatively in any way.
> > I don't mind at all seeing my problems solved in this fashion.
> > <H>.
>
> Good. A result. I'd only be worried if your checkpoints regularly go
> missing rather than just occasionally. How much space do you have
> allocated to the archive?

1032 MB's and the way it looks to me, they are being flushed about every two
months or so.
Just didn't think it was time yet.
I do have Avast, which is interfering with SR, but don't know exactly to
what extent. <H>.

> If a relatively small amount, as I do here,
> then making a sequence of installs or uninstalls in close succession or if
> using system restore to roll back through several checkpoints can cause
> most checkpoints to be flushed unless the space allocated to the archive
> is temporarily increased whilst all this activity is going on.
> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1032 MB's and the way it looks to me, they are being flushed about
> every two months or so.

Checkpoints are FIFO so older checkpoints should be being dropped all the
time as new checkpoints are created. Not necessarily on a 1 for 1 basis
but often four or five will be removed at the same time.

> Just didn't think it was time yet.
> I do have Avast, which is interfering with SR, but don't know exactly
> to what extent. <H>.


In what way do you think that Avast is interfering with SR? Is it
preventing the creating of automatic checkpoints? Manual checkpoints?
Restoration?
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:OGFhFXcbIHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1032 MB's and the way it looks to me, they are being flushed about
> > every two months or so.
>
> Checkpoints are FIFO so older checkpoints should be being dropped all the
> time as new checkpoints are created. Not necessarily on a 1 for 1 basis
> but often four or five will be removed at the same time.
>
> > Just didn't think it was time yet.
> > I do have Avast, which is interfering with SR, but don't know exactly
> > to what extent. <H>.
>
>
> In what way do you think that Avast is interfering with SR?

From past discussions about the subject in this NG, I thought you were
familiar with the fact that Avast prevents the creation of automatic
checkpoints. Don't know if there would be other drawbacks, but I am willing
to trade this condition for the good performance (IMHO) of Avast.

> Is it
> preventing the creating of automatic checkpoints? Manual checkpoints?
> Restoration?
> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>

 

[Mike M]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Thanks.
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby@gmail.com


webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:

> From past discussions about the subject in this NG, I thought you were
> familiar with the fact that Avast prevents the creation of automatic
> checkpoints. Don't know if there would be other drawbacks, but I am
> willing to trade this condition for the good performance (IMHO) of
> Avast.

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Mike:
I am the one to owe you "Thanks" and a whole lot more.

Harry.


"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:uX9BJycbIHA.5768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Thanks.
> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From past discussions about the subject in this NG, I thought you were
> > familiar with the fact that Avast prevents the creation of automatic
> > checkpoints. Don't know if there would be other drawbacks, but I am
> > willing to trade this condition for the good performance (IMHO) of
> > Avast.
>

 

[Heather]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion

Don't believe him......I have been using Avast since last August and I
have 2 - 3 months of Restore Points.......and they are all being made
automatically. Just checked them last night as a matter of fact.

Either he is telling *porkies*, or he is doing yet another dumb thing to
his computer. And I am quite sure that I would see this so-called
problem of Avast on either the antivirus or malware groups. It ain't
there. OTOH, I don't think Harry is quite there either.......(snicker).

XX Figgs

"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:uX9BJycbIHA.5768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Thanks.
> --
> Mike Maltby
> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>
>
> webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From past discussions about the subject in this NG, I thought you
>> were
>> familiar with the fact that Avast prevents the creation of automatic
>> checkpoints. Don't know if there would be other drawbacks, but I am
>> willing to trade this condition for the good performance (IMHO) of
>> Avast.
>

 

[webster72n]

Re: Rhyme but no Reason to System Restore points deletion


Don't believe him???
I am using Avast a lot longer than since last August and that condition was
common knowledge.
They may have changed/improved the program in the meantime. I even sent them
an email about a year ago or so with them replying that no changes could be
made at that time.
Are you sure you mean Avast and not AVG instead?
If the program is working without the flaw now, there must be a way for me
to correct the situation.
And you can save your "porkey" remarks!

Harry.


"Heather" <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:OqR3O$ebIHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Don't believe him......I have been using Avast since last August and I
> have 2 - 3 months of Restore Points.......and they are all being made
> automatically. Just checked them last night as a matter of fact.
>
> Either he is telling *porkies*, or he is doing yet another dumb thing to
> his computer. And I am quite sure that I would see this so-called
> problem of Avast on either the antivirus or malware groups. It ain't
> there. OTOH, I don't think Harry is quite there either.......(snicker).
>
> XX Figgs
>
> "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
> news:uX9BJycbIHA.5768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > Mike Maltby
> > mike.maltby@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > webster72n <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From past discussions about the subject in this NG, I thought you
> >> were
> >> familiar with the fact that Avast prevents the creation of automatic
> >> checkpoints. Don't know if there would be other drawbacks, but I am
> >> willing to trade this condition for the good performance (IMHO) of
> >> Avast.
> >
>
>