Re: Windows Live - no more Outlook Express
"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"
<WindowsLiveMailTechnologiesSupport@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:93EC9EE3-E733-41FA-A530-FFD34C255AF1@microsoft.com...
| HI MEB,
Heeey Scott, perhaps I should mention the name is Maurice so at least we
are on an even keel, so to speak.
MEB is *M*aurice *E*dward, *B*rahier
|
| Thanks for the response. Let me call out some answers to your
| questions/concerns. I'll do my best to not be too business-y.
|
| - Data Storage: We do hold backups for seven days for all accounts.
Windows
| Live Hotmail has millions of accounts and we just can't feasibly hold long
| term backups for that amount of data. Each user has 5GB of storage, that
| combined with millions of accounts would prove an massive amount of
storage
| needed to do this for a longer term. If a user removes something
| inadvertently, we MAY be able to recover if it is under 7 days. This is
| comparable to other mail services.
I have to grin on that one, this is Microsoft after all. Not to calumniate,
but I don't think there will be any tears rolling down the cheeks for poor
old Microsoft {ooohhhh, what a burden to bear}{grin}. We aren't talking
about some "still being run out of the garage" business here, nor run by
some poor pimply faced geek running around trying to get backers for his
spankin-new dream business.
Yes, users certainly realize Live/Microsoft MAY have millions of users, but
it seems others are able to provide that, and appear to have made it part of
their service. Moreover, as much of the services Microsoft offers have now
been off-loaded to others, as has been shown previously when hacked and
other issues have cropped up [as reported by Microsoft or in press releases
or the News, and otherwise], one would reasonably question that particular
statement.
You do, however, qualify that with the "comparable" statement, which I
suppose it is.
|
| - Privacy: Microsoft as a whole is very strict on privacy and information
| sharing. We never sell or freely distribute our customers information.
| Every employee is required to take privacy handling training yearly.
Okay, we can presume that this is done under terms/conditions of
employment. The issue will remain a discussion point in other venues,
USENET, etc..
|
| - Linking to Web based mail/downloading documents: Yes, you will be able
to
| use Windows Live Mail client to access the web files, and download them to
| your local machine. Your documents are backed up nightly, but those
backups
| are only stored for seven days. Your data will be intact as long as you
| continue to log into your account. This migration will not affect any data
| stored in your Hotmail account that is accessible through the Web
interface.
| The data I referred to was any that may have been pulled down to your
local
| machine and removed from the Hotmail account.
Okay, for the accounts I mentioned {mine- perhaps that's what you are
referring to], but there is also the other users to think about.
So: backups are done nightly - meaning if some thing goes wrong, one could
contact Live/Microsoft within 7 days and MIGHT be able to retrieve the
materials,, is this correct?
IF, however, there is nothing wrong, the backups are still done every
night, and will continue to be available AS LONG AS the messages were NOT
deleted and/or downloaded by the user AND the account is still
current/active [which you previously mentioned as 90 days],,, is that
correct?
Does that apply to all acounts as well, and for future accounts? Free <>
Paid [one would assume that would apply to those paid accounts IF using the
new interface/protocol AND/OR if another Email program is able to also
supply/use that protocol - then downloaded to local stores]
.. Does this indication apply to the FREE web accounts [e.g., may they be
pulled locally]?
Did Microsoft/Live supply/make public the coding so other Email clients
can/could also apply/use that protocol?
It might be useful for you to supply some of the basics [at least] on this
new protocol, such as: WHY is is purported to better than DAV {such as
Security, transfer, whatever...}. With all this Web 2.0 implimentation
floating around, perhaps it might interest some.
As for the interface/migration, that WILL preclude me from accessing the
materials UNLESS I use the web access [as I said, I have no intention of
installing it locally anywhere] - OR is it that one could perhaps use a
competitor's account to pull or transfer those messages too?
|
| - Monitoring of Accounts: I'm not sure what you are referring to here. We
do
| not monitor accounts other than for inactivity, which only polls last
login
| time and not contents. Agents will at times access your account based upon
| your request or through user report that an account is being used
| maliciously.
|
| I hope I covered all your concerns, if not, please let me know and I will
| try to clarify further.
Well, of course the answer would be no, but this is hardly the venue to
discuss much else.
Thanks Scott, perhaps others might wish to discuss things with you, be
prepared though, it can get real ugly [though generally not in this group].
|
| -s
|
| --
| Scott Hammer
| Sr. Support Program Manager
| Windows Live Mail Technologies
| Microsoft Corporation
| "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:e6aADJRpIHA.1768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| >
| > "Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"
| > <WindowsLiveMailTechnologiesSupport@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
| > message news:17E84DD2-D0FB-4910-AEE3-4199CF3F7C9E@microsoft.com...
| > | Hi MEB,
| > |
| > | I'm hoping that I understand the question correctly, please let me
know
| > if
| > | not. When you accessed this account in Outlook Express, did you save
| > | messages on the server? If so, then those mails will still be located
in
| > | your Hotmail folder, provided there isn't inactivity >90 days.
| > |
| > | If you didn't save them on the server, then these mails will be
located
| > in
| > | your Outlook Express mail data file. This is what will be migrated if
| > you
| > | install WLM. This tool does work very well. That being said,
Microsoft
| > does
| > | not make any implicit or explicit statements regarding the integrity
of
| > data
| > | involved in that migration. As the owner of that data, you are solely
| > | responsible for backing up your data and ensuring recoverability. The
| > | Windows Live Hotmail service does not hold long term data backups of
| > | accounts.
| > |
| > | I also want to be clear that this doesn't have any affect on the
Windows
| > | Live Hotmail web interface, only accessing Hotmail through HTTP using
| > DAV
| > in
| > | Outlook Express. I hope this helps to answer your concerns. If not,
I'm
| > | happy to continue to help.
| > |
| > | -so
| > |
| > | --
| > | Scott Hammer
| > | Sr. Support Program Manager
| > | Windows Live Mail Technologies
| > | Microsoft Corporation
| >
| >
| > Thank you Scott, for the response.
| >
| > The documents are saved in the web ONLY Hotmail account, however,
recently
| > the ability to link to other accounts was used pursuant the private DAV
| > account which is accessible via OE [or another capable Mail program].
| > Therefore, the web mail INBOX can be transferred to the other private
DAV
| > account and retrieved, though no other synchronization occurs.
| >
| > The issues under review are:
| > That due, in part, to the change in Microsoft's original Mail to >
| > MSN/Hotmail to > Live > and now this new proprietary protocol, I
question
| > whether I should continue to use the service. I won't go into the fact
| > that
| > during these changes somehow a few of my prior accounts were "lost"
during
| > that change over.
| > Taken with the posted activities pursuant "providing a better Email
| > experience" in the Live accounts [as indicated in the user documents and
| > agreements] which are apparently used to provide advertising and/or
other,
| > targeted at the type of Email being received [which of course apparently
| > means Email and other monitoring], and that [general] information
| > potentially being shared with "partners" of Live and/or Microsoft [which
I
| > personally believe borders on invasion of privacy and other like related
| > issues regardless of the Legal Notices and contracts/agreements involved
| > with use of the service], I can not, in good conscience, associate with
| > that
| > type of activity. Yes, I have read the supposed explanations and
| > agreements.
| >
| > That being said, as previously indicated, the primary issue is:
| > A plain and clear statement concerning whether I can move the WEB based
| > Saved documents [yes in distinct folders specifically created for them
on
| > the Live /Hotmail server] back into the INBOX in the WEB account > then
| > download them via the soon to be non-existent DAV account so they may be
| > preserved as required. I do not expect a "guarantee" but I do expect an
| > intelligent direct response which provides that answer. If you can
suggest
| > some potentially safe limit to move/retrieve at one time, that would be
| > appreciated.
| > I would imagine that other users would also be interested in a short
| > statement concerning the ability to link and/or access using the new
| > interface/application and protocol, including other using EMail clients
| > and
| > services [to><from].
| >
| > Moreover, as we are also presently discussing this in the OE news group
| > [soon to be defunct apparently] and internet mail, I am rather sure
there
| > may be a decided interest in the ability of others who might be
presently
| > be
| > using the Live service or might consider such in the future, as to
whether
| > there may be other methods allowed and/or which might in the future be
| > allowed when using the free and/or WEB based accounts pursuant to
| > accessing
| > them; and perhaps a short explanation of the intent and purpose of the
| > apparent monitoring of the Live accounts [hint - try NOT to make it
sound
| > like a business decision, and in a fashion which might be understood by
| > the
| > attending audience - the world].
| >
| > BTW: you indicated that Live/Hotmail does NOT provide long term storage,
| > so
| > perhaps you might wish to explain the gigabytes of offered storage
| > capacity
| > and an explaination of why someone should perhaps pay for the service or
| > use
| > it when there is no provided backup [per your statement] nor assurance
| > that
| > any [court, business, personal, etc.] data/saved messages might not be
| > lost.
| >
| > Please feel free to correct any errors or mis-directions in the above,
or
| > provide a response to same should you deem it necessary.
| >
| > --
| > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > --
| > _________
| >
| > | "MEB" <meb@not
here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:eGEZoJKpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > Well, that's all well and good for Microsoft I suppose, but this
| > account
| > | > was specifically setup for registration to the courts and
government,
| > and
| > | > DOES contain irreplaceable and important [think Notices, court
| > | > submissions,
| > | > email confirmations and other pursuant the CM/ECF {Electronic Case
| > | > Management System} of the court system] and is the web only
interface.
| > | > However, I also have another private Hotmail account to which I
| > recently
| > | > linked this account.
| > | >
| > | > The question was how to get these documents off the web only account
| > | > intact.
| > | >
| > | > As you are now representing Microsoft's issues in this forum:
| > | >
| > | > Would transferring these "can not destroy or modify" documents to
the
| > | > inbox
| > | > of the web only account folder, then allow me to pull these via the
| > other
| > | > link Hotmail account via OE WITHOUT damage or loss [done of course
| > prior
| > | > to
| > | > the date published]?
| > | > NOTE: there a few hundred saved court and other messages which need
| > moved
| > | > from this service as the web and private accounts will likely be
| > closed
| > | > due
| > | > to this new format. There certainly are other services available.
| > | >
| > | > Forget the new interface installation, this is being posted via the
| > | > Windows
| > | > 98 general discussion group. And I likely will not place this
| > installation
| > | > into any other Microsoft OS available
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > --
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | > "Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"
| > | > <WindowsLiveMailTechnologiesSupport@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
| > in
| > | > message news:C9B69094-0C08-48BD-AA0D-9266804906D0@microsoft.com...
| > | > | PA is correct. There is also a migration that will happen when
you
| > | > install
| > | > | WLM from Oe that should take care of this as well.
| > | > |
| > | > | -s
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Scott Hammer
| > | > | Sr. Support Program Manager
| > | > | Windows Live Mail Technologies
| > | > | Microsoft Corporation
| > | > | "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:eEwvA9IpIHA.3408@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > [Crossposted to the little-trafficked Internet Mail (which is
| > | > supposedly
| > | > | > being monitored by the Windows Live Mail team now) and Win98.OE
| > | > newsgroups
| > | > | > for widest exposure.]
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> So PA how do I pull all the legal documents, court notices, and
| > other
| > | > | >> contained upon and within my specifically created hotmail/live,
| > | > | >> registered
| > | > | >> with the government account, WITHOUT the materials being
| > destroyed
| > in
| > | > the
| > | > | >> process?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Actually, Win9x users have a few choices here:
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 1. You'll still be able to access your email archive via the
| > webmail
| > | > page
| > | > | > after 30 June 2008. IOW your data won't be deleted there
(unless
| > the
| > | > | > account hasn't been accessed for XX days).
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 2a. You can Copy or Move all Hotmail messages to one or more
local
| > OE
| > | > | > folders for archiving prior to 30 June 2008. [Do NOT use the OE
| > local
| > | > | > folders Inbox, Sent Items, or Deleted Items folders for
archiving
| > | > | > ANYTHING!]
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 2b. OE Tools | Accounts | Mail | [Hotmail] | Properties |
General
| > |
| > | > | > Include this account when sending or synchronizing
| > | > | >
| > | > | > If you disable the above option /prior to 30 June 2008/, OE will
| > not
| > | > | > attempt to sync with the WebDAV server again; therefore your
| > Hotmail
| > | > | > messages and folders in OE won't/can't be deleted by the
| > | > (non-existant)
| > | > | > server. <eg>
| > | > | >
| > | > | > NB: If you attempt to send a message using your Hotmail account
or
| > | > poll
| > | > | > the account for new messages, OE *will* attempt to synchronize
| > with
| > | > the
| > | > | > (non-existant) WebDAV server and all your data *will* be deleted
| > from
| > | > OE!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 3. Prior to 30 June 2008:
| > | > | >
| > | > | > a. subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus (US$19.95/year; not
| > | > available
| > | > | > in all countries); *and*
| > | > | >
| > | > | > b. make sure you're accessing the Hotmail account in OE via
| > POP3
| > | > (cf.
| > | > | >
| > | >
| >
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry).
| > | > | >
| > | > | > ===============
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Windows Live Hotmail Support & FAQ
| > | > | >
https://support.live.com/eform.aspx?productKey=wlmail&ct=eformts
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
| > | > | > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since
2002
| > | > | > AumHa VSOP & Admin
http://aumha.net
| > | > | > DTS-L
http://dts-l.net/
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > MEB wrote:
| > | > | >> PA Bear wrote:
| > | > | >>> cf.
| > | > | >>>
| > | >
| >
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...e6.browser/browse_frm/thread/54b191d2ef1c9614
| > | > | >>>
| > | > | >>> No, Windows Live Mail is NOT supported in Win9x.
| > | > | >>>
| > | > | >> Okay, we discussed a year or so ago the Live Mail issue.
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> So perhaps it might be advisable to include HERE some of the
| > | > purported
| > | > | >> information pulled from the threads PA referenced.
| > | > | > <snip>
| > | > | >
| > | > | > cf.
| > | > | >
| > | >
| >
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...inetexplorer.ie6.browser/msg/94fd442cf4ac054e
| > | > | >
| > | > | > cf.
| > | > | >
| > | >
| >
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...inetexplorer.ie6.browser/msg/5d4a99b1322267f3
| > | > | >
| > | > | > </snip>
| > | > | >> So PA how do I pull all the legal documents, court notices, and
| > other
| > | > | >> contained upon and within my specifically created hotmail/live,
| > | > | >> registered
| > | > | >> with the government account, WITHOUT the materials being
| > destroyed
| > in
| > | > the
| > | > | >> process?
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >>> MEB wrote:
| > | > | >>>> Just received notice that there is a new client needed soon
to
| > | > access
| > | > | >>>> Hotmail and Live accounts, which apparently only supports XP
| > and
| > | > Vista.
| > | > | >>>> The reason: Microsoft has created another proprietary
protocol
| > | > | >>>> DeltaSynch
| > | > | >>>> to replace its previous proprietary protocol DAV.
| > | > | >>>> Someone tell me why users should install ANOTHER Microsoft
| > | > problematic
| > | > | >>>> creation?
| > | > | >>>>
| > | > | >>>> Another brilliantly stupid idea from Microsoft. So what do
| > others
| > | > think
| > | > | >>>> about this...
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________