Could use a general education on where things are stored on my PC

[tcarp]

I've started a high-level inventory of my PC laptop. I used add/remove
programs as the starting point to list the applications. The other part is
an inventory of C:drive files/folders.

One objective for the work is to get a better understand of where things are
and how they're used for backup and recovery purposes. Using Outlook as an
example, it would be nice to know where all the components are stored that
have some sort of settings or user data. I know about the .pst files, what
they contain, and where they're located but don't know where settings
(accounts, etc.) are stored. I'll get the knowledge about individual
applications via posts specific to those applications.

The question here is about what I see as folders/files on my C-drive and, in
general, what's stored in them. I duplicated this question in the bowels of
another thread but it was beginning to get off-subject.

Here's the list of folders:

9a5160959c527400938408 (only one txt file; a verbose log)
css (actual css; along with html, images, and js appear to be from Crystal
Reports)
Documents and Settings
html (see above)
images (see above. A bunch of nav and other button gifs.)
js (see above. Java scripts)
MSOCache (hidden, assume to be part of the system)
Palm (the application and data folder for my ancient PDA)
Program Files
prompting (css, html, images, and js probably also from Crystal)
RECYCLER (hidden assumed to be part of the system)
System Volume Information (hidden, assumed to be part of the system)
Temp (empty)
Windows

As I look at these, the big three appear to be Documents and Settings,
Program Files, and Windows. Am I correct in assuming that the Windows folder
(possibly along with the hidden folders) is all that's needed to have a
runable Windows system? I'm not ignoring the files listed below.

The files on the C-drive:

AUTOEXEC.BAT
boot.ini
config.sys
drwtsn32.log
IO.SYS
MSDOS.SYS
NTDETECT.COM
ntldr
pagefile.sys

All of these are hidden so I'm assuming they are needed to have a runable
system.

Am I nieve to assume that in general the Program Files are, in fact, all the
applications and the Documents and Settings are, in fact, my documents and
application configuration settings files. Or am I only wishful?

Thanks

Tom

 

[Malke]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my PC

tcarp wrote:

(snippage and comments inline)

> The question here is about what I see as folders/files on my C-drive and,
> in
> general, what's stored in them. I duplicated this question in the bowels
> of another thread but it was beginning to get off-subject.

> As I look at these, the big three appear to be Documents and Settings,
> Program Files, and Windows. Am I correct in assuming that the Windows
> folder (possibly along with the hidden folders) is all that's needed to
> have a runable Windows system?

No, you aren't correct. See below for how to back up your system.

> I'm not ignoring the files listed below.
>
> The files on the C-drive:
>
> AUTOEXEC.BAT
> boot.ini
> config.sys
> drwtsn32.log
> IO.SYS
> MSDOS.SYS
> NTDETECT.COM
> ntldr
> pagefile.sys
>
> All of these are hidden so I'm assuming they are needed to have a runable
> system.

XP doesn't use autoexec.bat, io.sys, msdos.sys, or config.sys. They are
there only for backwards compatibility. The other files are necessary.

> Am I nieve to assume that in general the Program Files are, in fact, all
> the applications and the Documents and Settings are, in fact, my documents
> and
> application configuration settings files. Or am I only wishful?

"Documents and Settings" is the "container" for all user settings. Each user
will have [username] Documents, Music, Videos, My Pictures. In general,
installed programs will put their program files in the Program Files
directory, however that depends on the program. Some older programs will
use the root of C:\ instead.

Most programs will save their data in your My Documents directory but this
depends on the program. Some older programs will save at the root of C: or
in the Shared Documents folder. You need to examine the options of each
program that you use to determine this. You also need to examine how each
program saves - and just as importantly, restores - that data. For example,
some programs like QuickBooks and Quicken will want you to backup from
within the program and restore from within the program.

There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely
working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an
imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive
and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

http://www.acronis.com

You can also back up just your data, either by copying it to the external
hard drive manually or by using a backup program. I like Second Copy from
www.centered.com. It is inexpensive ($29.95), flexible, and doesn't put the
copied data into a proprietary format.

In addition to regularly backing up to an external hard drive, I also
suggest periodically burning the data to CD/DVD-R and storing it off-site
or at least in a safe place not next to the computer.


Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
Don't Panic!

 

[tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Thanks for the post on the files and folders.

> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely
> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an
> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive
> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating my
understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep the
threads focused on specific subjects.

I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now for
our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running those
types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also clone/imaging
tools out there too like the one you mentioned.

Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I
understand about the differences.

From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the
files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD. I
think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot
capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for
incrementals.

Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming the
only "price" paid is for HD space.

Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the
clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were
using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a
premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so
for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole backup
strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.

Thanks

Tom

 

[Malke]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

tcarp wrote:

> Thanks for the post on the files and folders.
>
>> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely
>> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an
>> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive
>> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.
>
> I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating
> my understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep
> the threads focused on specific subjects.
>
> I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now
> for our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running
> those
> types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also
> clone/imaging tools out there too like the one you mentioned.
>
> Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I
> understand about the differences.
>
> From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the
> files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD.
> I think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot
> capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for
> incrementals.
>
> Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming
> the only "price" paid is for HD space.
>
> Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the
> clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were
> using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a
> premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so
> for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole
> backup strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.

Cloning does exactly what it says: makes an exact image of a drive. Cloning
is normally used when replacing an entire hard drive.

Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a partition.
The image is compressed.

For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's
website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have
to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are
others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will
answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.

Backing up files/folders does not accomplish the same purpose as imaging at
all.

Probably for a small mixed operating system network like yours, I would:

1. Have a central NAS to hold images and backups (Google it) or use Apple's
new Time Capsule.

2. Run Second Copy on one of the Windows machines, create profiles to back
up all pertinent stuff on all the other Windows boxen, and funnel all the
backups to one backup folder on the NAS/Time Capsule. This makes burning to
DVD very easy since everything is now in one place.

3. Occasionally image the Windows machines with True Image so you can get
back to a working system in minutes instead of hours. Store the images on
the NAS/Time Capsule.

4. For the Macs, use Time Machine with the NAS (if supported, I honestly
don't remember if it is). Obviously Time Machine works with Time Capsule.
For my MacBook, I also use Super Duper regularly so I can get back easily
and quickly to a working system. I prefer that aspect of Super Duper to
Time Machine although of course I run Time Machine too.

Hope that helped,


Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
Don't Panic!

 

[tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my



"Malke" wrote:

> tcarp wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the post on the files and folders.
> >
> >> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely
> >> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an
> >> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive
> >> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.
> >
> > I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating
> > my understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep
> > the threads focused on specific subjects.
> >
> > I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now
> > for our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running
> > those
> > types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also
> > clone/imaging tools out there too like the one you mentioned.
> >
> > Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I
> > understand about the differences.
> >
> > From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the
> > files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD.
> > I think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot
> > capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for
> > incrementals.
> >
> > Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming
> > the only "price" paid is for HD space.
> >
> > Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the
> > clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were
> > using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a
> > premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so
> > for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole
> > backup strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.
>
> Cloning does exactly what it says: makes an exact image of a drive. Cloning
> is normally used when replacing an entire hard drive.
>
> Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a partition.
> The image is compressed.
>
> For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's
> website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have
> to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are
> others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will
> answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.
>
Thanks for the reference. I'll do some more homework.
>
> Probably for a small mixed operating system network like yours, I would:
>
> 1. Have a central NAS to hold images and backups (Google it) or use Apple's
> new Time Capsule.

"Google it"??? Only know Google from their web search tool.

Interestingly I'm in the process of making my Mac into more of a server for
the home. The Mac was my first machine (way, way back) and now, with the PC
laptops, I don't use it for applications much anymore. The idea is to turn
it into a server (file and, if things network better these days, print).

> 2. Run Second Copy on one of the Windows machines, create profiles to back
> up all pertinent stuff on all the other Windows boxen, and funnel all the
> backups to one backup folder on the NAS/Time Capsule. This makes burning to
> DVD very easy since everything is now in one place.

I'll have to get more familiar with the technique but thanks for the
direction.

> 3. Occasionally image the Windows machines with True Image so you can get
> back to a working system in minutes instead of hours. Store the images on
> the NAS/Time Capsule.
>
> 4. For the Macs, use Time Machine with the NAS (if supported, I honestly
> don't remember if it is). Obviously Time Machine works with Time Capsule.
> For my MacBook, I also use Super Duper regularly so I can get back easily
> and quickly to a working system. I prefer that aspect of Super Duper to
> Time Machine although of course I run Time Machine too.
>
> Hope that helped,

A great deal! Its time for me to do some homework and put together a backup
design. I'll probably come back to have separate eyes look at it.

As I did some quite searches for authoritative comparisons between backup
software I found mostly the extremes (loved it or hated it). Since I can't
tell how much is marketing or user issues, and since I don't want to go into
a "best product search" I also appreciate comments on what's simple (given
this is a small home network) and relatively easy to use.

The other topic will be about restores. For example, a friend could have
used a complete reinstall of windows and knowing roughly how to do that in
advance will also take some forum time.

Tom

 

[tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

> You can also back up just your data, either by copying it to the external
> hard drive manually or by using a backup program. I like Second Copy from
> www.centered.com. It is inexpensive ($29.95), flexible, and doesn't put the
> copied data into a proprietary format.

You mentioned proprietary format here. Is it your opinion that it's a
better choice to not use the proprietary format (if there's an option like I
have with Retrospect) or select a tool that doesn't use it? I'm assuming the
reason is that you don't have to have a copy of the application to do
restores. The trade off, I assume, is disk space. Do I have that right?

 

[Anthony Buckland]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my


"Malke" <malke@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:%23q0yq1T0IHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> ...
> Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a
> partition.
> The image is compressed.
>
> For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's
> website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have
> to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are
> others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will
> answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.
>
> Backing up files/folders does not accomplish the same purpose as imaging
> at
> all.
> ...

It's worth bearing in mind that an image can be used as a backup of
files and folders too. One tool, both purposes. In TI, "plug" an image,
and you have a temporary virtual partition you can open and explore
just like your permanent one. In there, you will find the saved version of
a folder, or an individual file within a folder. I've used this technique
more
than once to restore a file or two. Good for data you accidentally
deleted or messed up, or for system files that have gone bye-bye, losing
you a driver or a dll. The only time overhead is in making the full-
partition backup in the first place -- but then you did that anyway as
good strategy.

 

[PA20Pilot]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Hi,

.........Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing
as the clone/image backups why would you have both

Good question, normally you wouldn't use both. A little back to basics
here, but a clone is like holding twins, one in each hand. An image
often as not means your original disk in one hand and a single giant
compressed file that's a copy of your hard drives contents in your other
hand. Both hands hold all the info you'll need, but they are stored in
different ways.

........better choice to not use the proprietary format ...... I'm
assuming the reason is that you don't have to have a copy of the
application to do restores.

That too, but most have a way that'll help you boot and get things up
and running again.

Also you can slap your clone in someone elses computer and transfer
things drag and drop easy. Some images are about as easy to use as a
clone, but more than likely you can't swap the jumpers, plug in the disk
holding an image and have your computer boot as it did before it broke.
Reloading an image may or may not have the outcome as easy as you're
expecting.

---==X={}=X==---

Jim Self

AVIATION ANIMATION, the internet's largest depository.
http://avanimation.avsupport.com

Your only internet source for spiral staircase plans.
http://jself.com/stair/Stair.htm

Experimental Aircraft Association #140897
EAA Technical Counselor #4562

 

[tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my


>
> Also you can slap your clone in someone elses computer and transfer
> things drag and drop easy. Some images are about as easy to use as a
> clone, but more than likely you can't swap the jumpers, plug in the disk
> holding an image and have your computer boot as it did before it broke.
> Reloading an image may or may not have the outcome as easy as you're
> expecting.
>
You hopped on another thread I started with a bit more specific subject that
this one (which was the first I started - much in the dark at that time).

I won't duplicate my reply to your posts on that thread here.

Just thanks

Tom

P.S. Ex-Boeing guy

 

[PA20Pilot]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

Hi again,

.......P.S. Ex-Boeing guy

Did you learn something you would like to share?


---==X={}=X==---

Jim Self

AVIATION ANIMATION, the internet's largest depository.
http://avanimation.avsupport.com

Your only internet source for spiral staircase plans.
http://jself.com/stair/Stair.htm

Experimental Aircraft Association #140897
EAA Technical Counselor #4562