Re: Backup strategy to hard drive bigger than original
spamlet wrote:
> "Big_Al" <BigAl@md.com> wrote in message
> news:eSPDTxa0IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> spamlet wrote:
>>> "Big_Al" <BigAl@md.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23s3zTnX0IHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> spamlet wrote:
>>>>> This may sound like a pretty basic question, but I've hung on to
>>>>> various threads around the topic for a while, but still have a few
>>>>> points to clear up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have XPPro on a nearly full 40gig internal drive, and recently bought 2
>>>>> MyBook 500gig externals.
>>>>> Despite reading around, I still got a surprise to find there was only a
>>>>> usb port on the back of the drives, so I won't be plugging one in to my
>>>>> router after all... so I want to minimise the chances of any further c
>>>>> ' ups.
>>>>>
>>>>> The way I see it, the sensible thing to do would be to divide the new
>>>>> drives into sections (drives? partitions?): a section, maybe the same
>>>>> size as the original drive, to clone the operating system and programme
>>>>> files to; and a main section for transferring and backing up all the
>>>>> personal data files. I have never done any work on drives/partitions
>>>>> before, so I am not sure exactly how to proceed.
>>>>>
>>>> You don't need to partition anything. A good program like Acronis True
>>>> Image Home will write an *image* of your 40 gig drive to the USB drive.
>>>> You can store several copies on that same large drive.
>>>> If you clone over and over and over, you only have the last backup. And
>>>> in reality, if you get a virus, and then clone before you know it, you
>>>> now got a clone on the only copy of your backup. So multiple images
>>>> is a more practical backup.
>>>> You can boot off the restore CD and pick which image you want, and you
>>>> can even pick files within the image. You don't have to restore the
>>>> entire drive.
>>>>
>>>>> I am also unsure as to whether I can boot from any clone I might put on
>>>>> the external drive - obviously I would like to be able to do this; and
>>>>> whether there will be a problem cloning from a smaller drive to a
>>>>> larger one (One source I read mentioned a clone programme treating the
>>>>> larger drive as if it was still only the same size as the original.)
>>>>>
>>>> Acronis will allow you to clone from a small to a large drive. That's
>>>> one of its features, to allow you to install a new drive and upgrade.
>>>> But it will be hard if not impossible to boot from the external drive.
>>>> Another problem is that cloning is meant for drive replacement. And
>>>> normally the directions are to remove the cloned (USB) drive after doing
>>>> the clone operation.
>>>> If you make the boot disc and boot off of it, you make the clone and
>>>> then immediately shutdown and swap drives. The new drive, lets say the
>>>> 500 gig is in your cabinet, now boots and changes the drive letter to C:
>>>> as it should be and not the D: or E: or whatever it was. This is the
>>>> intent of the clone operation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I know these are questions that ideally I should have asked before
>>>>> buying the new drives, but until one actually tries to use them, the
>>>>> questions don't occur to the inexperienced!
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, are there any suitable free cloning programmes I should consider;
>>>>> and/or should I nowadays be looking at Ghost, or Acronis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice or links pointing to a step by step process for achieving
>>>>> the above aims, would be much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> S
>>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>> Thanks Al,
>>>
>>> Still a bit puzzling though: the 'clone' appears to be a very large'
>>> image' folder that is used to write everything onto a replacement drive,
>>> should the original become unusable. Yet you say that one can choose
>>> which files are restored? This sounds like a contradiction?
>>>
>> I may have typed wrong. Peter gave a good response. A clone is a
>> complete bootable copy made to another drive, the complete partition is
>> duped.
>> An image is a complete copy but its just a compressed file and you can
>> restore individual files from it. However if you restore it as a
>> complete, you can make the destination bootable. So its almost the same.
>>
>>> Should, say, just one programme become corrupted in some way, how would
>>> one pick out all its various components and get them back and working in
>>> the right places? Or does one use the clone like a giant 'System
>>> Restore' point, where, as soon as anything starts playing up, one reverts
>>> to an image of the whole system that previously worked, without any
>>> reference to the individual programmes? With the possible difference,
>>> that one might have to reformat the whole drive before installing the
>>> full system clone?
>>>
>> If you had a problem with Office, having a backup would do you little good
>> unless you specifically knew that file xxx.dll was bad or such. Otherwise
>> yes, you could just restore the entire image and like you said, make a
>> giant system restore. And TI will format and/or partition before
>> restoring an entire image if you wish.
>>
>> When I reloaded my PC with SP3, I did all the loading and setup and custom
>> config etc, then imaged the PC. Now I have the very very very first
>> virgin load to use. I also have more recent images if I want. And daily
>> minor file backups.
>>
>>> As the system and programme files are less likely to change,
>>> fundamentally, than the personal data files, I would have thought that
>>> the 'clone' ought to be just these files, while the data files were
>>> backed up with a normal back up programme.
>> You cannot pick with a clone. A clone is the entire partition.
>> And as some people suggest, you can make two partitions C: for the OS and
>> D: for the data. As long as you understand an install of a program on
>> D: effects changes to the OS on C: and you have to manage it like so, yes
>> you can do that.
>>
>>> You say I must remove the usb drive after doing any clone operation, yet
>>> I can have multiple clone images on that drive? Doesn't that imply that
>>> I must have 'two drives' on my new 500gig, so that one can be 'removed'
>>> while my other 'non image' stored files, remain available?
>>>
>> You can have multiple images on a drive. But a clone wipes an entire
>> partition. Peter commented that he makes multiple partitions and rotates
>> his clones. Doing one on partition #1 then one #2 then back to #1 (if I
>> got his quote right). I just put several images on the same drive
>> partition.
>>
>> And (assume you have single partitioned drives) TI's procedure for a clone
>> would be to clone your C: drive to lets say E: drive in a USB cabinet.
>> When you finish, you turn everything off, remove the C: drive, put the E:
>> drive in the PC and boot. TI has a small loader that changes the E: to
>> C: for the obvious reasons and then boots. You now have your system
>> running but on another drive. When you did the clone, you had the option
>> to size the partition on E: by the way, so you can move from small to a
>> larger partition.
>>
>>> Sorry to appear so dumb...
>>>
>>> Assistance much appreciated,
>>> Thanks,
>>> S
>> TI can actually be used like a partition manager. A bit awkward but if
>> you had a C:/D: drive split, you could image the two of them (in one
>> operation) to the USB, then restore them back but partition the C:/D:
>> different. A bit awkward but it can be done.
>
> Thanks very much for the clarifications Peter and Al.
>
> So would I now be (unfortunately) right in telling my partner, that should
> she step on her laptop again, while out and about, she cannot have a clone
> on a portable drive handy to boot from unless she dismantles the laptop and
> the drive to swap them over? Somehow I was foolish enough to expect that
> there would be a real backup option to get around this situation. Are you
> telling me there is not? If there is such a product available, what is it?
>
> On the less extreme back up situation front. It seems that I need to know
> more about the methods/pros/cons of partitioning and drive manipulation.
> Can either of you point me at any good reading matter on the subject? How
> did Peter partition his drives: there does not seem to be a partitioning
> option in 'Disk management'?
There is. When you have a virgin drive and create that first partition
it will ask you how much of the drive to use. If you use less than
100%, you have another option later to partition the remainder. Again
you can use less than 100% of that and so on. There are limits, but
you get the idea.
>
> Finally, from what you are both saying, it would appear that ATI will, on
> its own, be able to accomplish everything that I may need to do with regard
> to back up processes/partition creation etc. and so this is the product I
> should be getting.
It will backup files and clone drives. When it clones, it allows for
changing a partition or using what is currently there. So far I have
not found a reason for another utility.
>
> On a more general back up note: do all back up products work by creating
> their own 'image sets' that just look like single files that only the
> creating programme can open (I think I have stacks of such sets from my old
> W3.1 days, and I never could keep track of which was which and which
> programme made them!). Apart from copying 'by hand' is there no back up
> that just copies the file system over as is?
>
There are programs like SecondCopy that keep things in sync. Goodsync
and Allway, are two others. These do file copies. But yes,
generally a backup utility writes proprietary single files like winzip.
I normally put the program in the name:
ATI9 C Drive Full Backup 6-10-08.tib
I have ATI ver 9 on the laptop and ATI ver 10 on the desktop. So I do
this for obvious reasons. ATI 11 is on sale at newegg for a week for
25$ right now. I may solve my delema this week.
> Thanks once again,
>
> S
>
>
>