Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

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hjacobson

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Summary:

Trying to get Microsoft Installer and Microsoft Update to recognise
symbolic links that redirect
C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer
C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache
The Installer and Update in XP with SP3 removes the symbolic link,
replacing with a folder which is then populated with the current
install
or update.

Detail:

With the advent of "netbooks" a.k.a. ultralow-cost PCs, Microsoft
committed to support XP on these machines through January 2010
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/jun08/06-03ComputexPR.mspx.
The first popular netbook, the ASUS eeePC's have small solid state
disk (SSD) drives 4 - 8 GB in size and an SD card slot

I am Technology Director of a public charter school in Massachusetts,
grades 7 - 12. It makes good sense to configure netbooks for use in
the academic environment. For that reason I am experimenting with an
ASUS eeePC 701. This eeePC has a 4 GB SSD and an 8 GB SDHC card
configured as the 2nd fixed disk drive.

I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
SP3
using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/. The operating system and basic
applications occupy about 2.5 GB of the 4 GB SSD. This is not a fully
functional install, merely the necessary functions required in our
academic environment. Basic applications include: Adobe Reader, Adobe
Flash, Mozilla Thunderbird, Symantec Endpoint Protechtion. Acronis
True Image Echo Workstation is also installed for image backup.

The school uses Microsoft Office. We looked into OpenOffice and
judged
its user interface, rendering, and storing of office documents
imperfect. I configured Office to install on the D: drive. The Office
application with only the functionality required by the school
occupies under 400 MB. The D:\MSOCache occupies about 700 MB.

The issue I'm now working on is redirecting or installing certain XP
folders to the D: drive.

To wit:
(1) The folder C:\WINDOWS\Installer. The folder is currently
almost 800 MB. I've tried moving the folder to D:\WINDOWS\Installer,
replacing the original folder with a symbolic link using Sysinternals
junction http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx.

Windows Update and Windows Installer 3.1 do not "play well" with the
symbolic link C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer. The
symbolic link is removed, replaced with a folder which is then
populated with the update du jour or install du jour.

(2) The folder D:\MSOCache. Windows update nevertheless creates
C:\MSOCache, populating with duplicates of the contents of D:
\MSOCache.
I think, but I don't know, Update and Installer would be clueless and
ruthless
to a symbolic link C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache

I don't understand why the Installer and Update processes don't work
with these symbolic links and what could be done to make them
recognize
the symbolic links.

What to do?

An alternative might be to search through the registry
and replace every instance of C:\WINDOWS\Installer with D:\WINDOWS
\Installer.
That, needless to say, is rather kludgy. There are hundreds, if not
thousands
of values containing C:\WINDOWS\Installer.

If/when this problem is resolved we will have the basic configuration
for introducing netbooks in our school.

Harry Jacobson
 
Re: Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

> I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
> SP3 using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/.

Patient (demonstrating): "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
Doctor: "Don't do that."

Don't do that.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/


hjacobson wrote:
> Summary:
>
> Trying to get Microsoft Installer and Microsoft Update to recognise
> symbolic links that redirect
> C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer
> C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache
> The Installer and Update in XP with SP3 removes the symbolic link,
> replacing with a folder which is then populated with the current
> install
> or update.
>
> Detail:
>
> With the advent of "netbooks" a.k.a. ultralow-cost PCs, Microsoft
> committed to support XP on these machines through January 2010
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/jun08/06-03ComputexPR.mspx.
> The first popular netbook, the ASUS eeePC's have small solid state
> disk (SSD) drives 4 - 8 GB in size and an SD card slot
>
> I am Technology Director of a public charter school in Massachusetts,
> grades 7 - 12. It makes good sense to configure netbooks for use in
> the academic environment. For that reason I am experimenting with an
> ASUS eeePC 701. This eeePC has a 4 GB SSD and an 8 GB SDHC card
> configured as the 2nd fixed disk drive.
>
> I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
> SP3
> using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/. The operating system and basic
> applications occupy about 2.5 GB of the 4 GB SSD. This is not a fully
> functional install, merely the necessary functions required in our
> academic environment. Basic applications include: Adobe Reader, Adobe
> Flash, Mozilla Thunderbird, Symantec Endpoint Protechtion. Acronis
> True Image Echo Workstation is also installed for image backup.
>
> The school uses Microsoft Office. We looked into OpenOffice and
> judged
> its user interface, rendering, and storing of office documents
> imperfect. I configured Office to install on the D: drive. The Office
> application with only the functionality required by the school
> occupies under 400 MB. The D:\MSOCache occupies about 700 MB.
>
> The issue I'm now working on is redirecting or installing certain XP
> folders to the D: drive.
>
> To wit:
> (1) The folder C:\WINDOWS\Installer. The folder is currently
> almost 800 MB. I've tried moving the folder to D:\WINDOWS\Installer,
> replacing the original folder with a symbolic link using Sysinternals
> junction http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx.
>
> Windows Update and Windows Installer 3.1 do not "play well" with the
> symbolic link C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer. The
> symbolic link is removed, replaced with a folder which is then
> populated with the update du jour or install du jour.
>
> (2) The folder D:\MSOCache. Windows update nevertheless creates
> C:\MSOCache, populating with duplicates of the contents of D:
> \MSOCache.
> I think, but I don't know, Update and Installer would be clueless and
> ruthless
> to a symbolic link C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache
>
> I don't understand why the Installer and Update processes don't work
> with these symbolic links and what could be done to make them
> recognize
> the symbolic links.
>
> What to do?
>
> An alternative might be to search through the registry
> and replace every instance of C:\WINDOWS\Installer with D:\WINDOWS
> \Installer.
> That, needless to say, is rather kludgy. There are hundreds, if not
> thousands
> of values containing C:\WINDOWS\Installer.
>
> If/when this problem is resolved we will have the basic configuration
> for introducing netbooks in our school.
>
> Harry Jacobson
 
Re: Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

hjacobson wrote:

> Trying to get Microsoft Installer and Microsoft Update to recognise
> symbolic links that redirect
> C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer
> C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache
> The Installer and Update in XP with SP3 removes the symbolic link,
> replacing with a folder which is then populated with the current
> install or update.

In that case, there is unlikely to be any way to get this to work. It wouldn't
be reliable anyway.

> For that reason I am experimenting with an
> ASUS eeePC 701. This eeePC has a 4 GB SSD and an 8 GB SDHC card
> configured as the 2nd fixed disk drive.

I'm not sure it will be practical to run Windows XP on a 4GB system drive. I
don't suppose you can boot to the SDHC card instead?

> I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
> SP3 using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/.

Don't do that. You can remove some system components using the Add/Remove
control panel, but pulling things out by their hair is going to leave you with
an unreliable system.

> To wit:
> (1) The folder C:\WINDOWS\Installer. The folder is currently
> almost 800 MB.

I don't think it should be quite that big on a fresh install. Did you integrate
Windows XP service pack 3 into your installation media, or install it manually?
What software have you installed?

> (2) The folder D:\MSOCache. Windows update nevertheless creates
> C:\MSOCache, populating with duplicates of the contents of D:
> \MSOCache.

This was created by Office, yes? You can tell Office not to create a cache in
the first place, although that does mean Office updates can't be installed
unless the installation media is present.

Harry.
 
Re: Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

I'm sorry, did I step on your foot?

Harry
Veteran of MS OS's since PCDOS 1.0, 1982

On Jun 30, 6:13 pm, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
> > SP3 using nlitehttp://www.nliteos.com/.
>
> Patient (demonstrating): "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
> Doctor: "Don't do that."
>
> Don't do that.
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> AumHa VSOP & Adminhttp://aumha.net
> DTS-Lhttp://dts-l.net/
 
Re: Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

On Jun 30, 7:54 pm, "Harry Johnston [MVP]" <ha...@scms.waikato.ac.nz>
wrote:
> hjacobson wrote:
> > Trying to get Microsoft Installer and Microsoft Update to recognise
> > symbolic links that redirect
> > C:\WINDOWS\Installer --> D:\WINDOWS\Installer
> > C:\MSOCache --> D:\MSOCache
> > The Installer and Update in XP with SP3 removes the symbolic link,
> > replacing with a folder which is then populated with the current
> > install or update.
>
> In that case, there is unlikely to be any way to get this to work.  It wouldn't
> be reliable anyway.
>

That's too bad. I hoped someone familiar with the internals of MS
Installer and Update would jump in here to explain their behavior of
not respecting NTFS symbolic links. Curious, as Installer and Update
appear to respect more traditional user folder re-direction.


> > For that reason I am experimenting with an
> > ASUS eeePC 701. This eeePC has a 4 GB SSD and an 8 GB SDHC card
> > configured as the 2nd fixed disk drive.
>
> I'm not sure it will be practical to run Windows XP on a 4GB system drive..  I
> don't suppose you can boot to the SDHC card instead?

It may work. The eeePC's BIOS offers the option to make the SD
controller the 1st HDD. I haven't (yet) tried that. From discussions
over at http://forum.eeeuser.com/ it appears one must overcome XP's
tendency to refuse to install to a removable drive. That may be
overcome by feeding a driver configuration right at the beginning of
the XP install - "Press F6 to install ....." - to fake the install
proc into believing the SDHC card is fixed.

>
> > I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
> > SP3 using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/.
>
> Don't do that.  You can remove some system components using the Add/Remove
> control panel, but pulling things out by their hair is going to leave you with
> an unreliable system.
>

Please don't make it sound so coarse. There is standard procedure for
removal and testing to obtain stable configuration. It's merely not
Microsoft's configuration. None of the core components are removed;
mostly device drivers &etc not applicable to the eeePC, and components
that will never be used in the school configuration. Further I was
able to include IE 7 and WMP 11 in the XP install.

> > To wit:
> > (1) The folder C:\WINDOWS\Installer. The folder is currently
> > almost 800 MB.
>
> I don't think it should be quite that big on a fresh install.  Did you integrate
> Windows XP service pack 3 into your installation media, or install it manually?
>   What software have you installed?

The original installation media was XP SP3 iso downloaded from
Microsoft TECHNET.

Sorry, my bad. C:\WINDOWS\Installer is about 500 MB after apps
installations and updates. That includes about 225 MB for an Office
2007 SP1 update, downloaded despite the fact that Office 2007 SP1 was
the original installation.

>
> > (2) The folder D:\MSOCache. Windows update nevertheless creates
> > C:\MSOCache, populating with duplicates of the contents of D:
> > \MSOCache.
>
> This was created by Office, yes?  You can tell Office not to create a cache in
> the first place, although that does mean Office updates can't be installed
> unless the installation media is present.

D:\MSOCache was created by the original Office 2007 SP1 installation.
Office 2007 SP1 was installed to D:\Program Files\ by answering the
appropriate questions during the plain vanilla Office installation.

C:\MSOCache was created during the Microsoft Update process.

>
>    Harry.
 
Re: Using symbolic links to fit XP and Office on ultra low cost PC's

hjacobson wrote:

>>> I slimmed down, that is, removed extraneous functions from XP with
>>> SP3 using nlite http://www.nliteos.com/.

>> Don't do that. You can remove some system components using the Add/Remove
>> control panel, but pulling things out by their hair is going to leave you with
>> an unreliable system.
>
> Please don't make it sound so coarse. There is standard procedure for
> removal and testing to obtain stable configuration.

Well, it's your funeral. :-)

Seriously, though, you may have a temporarily stable configuration, but it isn't
one the operating system was designed to be in. Every time something changes,
e.g., the installation of a security update, the system might break. Even in
the absence of an externally introduced change like an update there's always a
chance of an unexpected problem in an unanticipated (and therefore untested)
situation.

Personally I wouldn't care to take the risk. Windows is far too fragile already.

Harry.
 
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