No restore points, redux.

[XS11E]

Earlier messages posted around July 6th....

Again I had to restore Vista Ultimate 64bit from an Acronis image and
again, the restored image had NO restore points.

Additional information, MS Update then proceeded to install around 16
updates, both to Office and to Vista and I recognized that some of them
I'd installed previously so not only did I lose my restore points but I
also either lost the updates or whatever pointer it is that tells MS
Update that an update is installed.

The image I restored was made just about two hours before the restore
because I planned to mess with some software, it didn't work nor did it
uninstall so the restore was the easiest way to go.

Prior to creating the image I checked to be sure there were restore
points and there were the usual bunch, all gone now. I also recall one
MS Update relating to my video card which was installed just hours
before creating the image.

This is of come concern, I'm using Acronis 10 and creating images from
within Vista. I just deleted existing images and created a new one by
booting into the Acronis CD and creating the image from there, I don't
know if that will make any difference?

Also, my HD is partitioned and I only restore the C: partition but
should that make any difference to System restore or to MS Update?

Any ideas?



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
sort it out. A situation of this type would by all means
not be a Microsoft problem, it would be Acronis' problem and
they should be the ones to resolve the problem. You're
talking about the possibility of a "bug" in Acronis and you
won't find the solution here if this is true.


XS11E wrote:
> Earlier messages posted around July 6th....
>
> Again I had to restore Vista Ultimate 64bit from an Acronis image and
> again, the restored image had NO restore points.
>
> Additional information, MS Update then proceeded to install around 16
> updates, both to Office and to Vista and I recognized that some of them
> I'd installed previously so not only did I lose my restore points but I
> also either lost the updates or whatever pointer it is that tells MS
> Update that an update is installed.
>
> The image I restored was made just about two hours before the restore
> because I planned to mess with some software, it didn't work nor did it
> uninstall so the restore was the easiest way to go.
>
> Prior to creating the image I checked to be sure there were restore
> points and there were the usual bunch, all gone now. I also recall one
> MS Update relating to my video card which was installed just hours
> before creating the image.
>
> This is of come concern, I'm using Acronis 10 and creating images from
> within Vista. I just deleted existing images and created a new one by
> booting into the Acronis CD and creating the image from there, I don't
> know if that will make any difference?
>
> Also, my HD is partitioned and I only restore the C: partition but
> should that make any difference to System restore or to MS Update?
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
> points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
> approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
> sort it out.

So far no solution from them.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

And you think Microsoft or someone in this forum is going to
fix it?

Maybe you can get Alice in Wonderland to help with the problem?


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
>> points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
>> approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
>> sort it out.
>
> So far no solution from them.
>
>

 

[Carlos]

Re: No restore points, redux.

XS11E,
You are using an "old" version of Acronis, current one is v11.
Some research in the changelog might help.
Carlos

"XS11E" wrote:

> Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
> > points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
> > approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
> > sort it out.
>
> So far no solution from them.
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> And you think Microsoft or someone in this forum is going to
> fix it?

Again you demonstrate your inability to comprehend the problem.

If you can't understand, don't reply.

> Maybe you can get Alice in Wonderland to help with the problem?

I think you should limit yourself to only one stupid pill per day...

Again, if your reading comprehension doesn't allow you to understand
the problem or WHY I *correctly* posted it here, then STFU, OK?



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Carlos <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> XS11E,
> You are using an "old" version of Acronis, current one is v11.
> Some research in the changelog might help.

Thanks, nothing there that give any clues.

The question is has anyone else noticed this?




--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

I've been using Acronis 10 before and now Acronis 11 and in
the 3 years I've been using them I have never encountered
any problem with Restore Points. I have used Acronis on
Windows XP Pro 32-bit, Windows XP Pro x64, and Windows Vista
x64 and have never encountered any problems like this.

The only problem I have encountered with Acronis is getting
it to do a backup directly to a dual layer DVD, but research
indicates it is probably the particular drive I am using.


XS11E wrote:
> The question is has anyone else noticed this?
>
>
>
>

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
are still listed.

I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.

Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
it delete my previous restore points.


XS11E wrote:
> The question is has anyone else noticed this?
>
>
>
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
> x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
> went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
> set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
> are still listed.
>
> I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
> x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.
>
> Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
> it delete my previous restore points.

FYI: It's normal, I finally dug the info out, applies to Version 10 and
11 of Acronis:

"....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.

You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=199565

It's a long thread, it applies to Acronis 10 and 11, different people
have different results.

I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?






--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Graham]

Re: No restore points, redux.

XS11E wrote:
> "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
> System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
> A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
> delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
> image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
>
> You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
> to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
>
> I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?

This sounds similar to (but different from) the reason that Raxco
Perfect disk can't properly defrag an NTFS disk under Vista unless
cluster sizes of at least 16K are used for the volume. It has a "VSS
compatible" defrag mode, which basically tells it to limit
defragmentation in order to avoid creating excessive file "changes"
which fill up the VSS area and wipe out system restore points.

I'd say this is a design problem with Vista for two reasons. First, the
file changes which are stored regardless of the Vista version are only
accessible and restorable if you have Vista Business or Ultimate and
otherwise just waste disk space. Second, if it works with cluster sizes
greater than 16K, it should have been possible to make it work with
smaller, and more common, cluster sizes too (but I don't know the
technical details of why that was not done).

I think Microsoft need to do some re-thinking of VSS. Sounds like a
potentially good idea poorly implemented. (It does have a potential
privacy issue too, in that deleted files are even less physically
deleted than they were with earlier versions of Windows.)

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
"I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."

And a reply from Acronis Support:
"Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software

Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
details to them."

So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

When I have time I will do a restore from the backup I did
yesterday and see what the status of the Restore Points is.
They're still working in the system I did the image of.


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
>> x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
>> went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
>> set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
>> are still listed.
>>
>> I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
>> x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.
>>
>> Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
>> it delete my previous restore points.
>
> FYI: It's normal, I finally dug the info out, applies to Version 10 and
> 11 of Acronis:
>
> "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
> System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
> A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
> delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
> image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
>
> You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
> to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
>
> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=199565
>
> It's a long thread, it applies to Acronis 10 and 11, different people
> have different results.
>
> I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
> "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
> going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
> Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
>
> And a reply from Acronis Support:
> "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
>
> Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
> already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
> details to them."
>
> So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?
As I stated before my restore points are neither deleted nor
turned off when I use Acronis 10 or 11 on Windows XP Pro
(32-bit), Win XP x64, and Vista x64. If this were a Windows
problem, then I would fully expect it to happen on at least
one of my system.


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
>> "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
>> going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
>> Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
>>
>> And a reply from Acronis Support:
>> "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
>>
>> Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
>> already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
>> details to them."
>>
>> So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.
>
> It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".
>
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?

You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
Acronis.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Bobby Johnson]

Re: No restore points, redux.

I did and here's one of the best extracts:

"Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
chief."


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?
>
> You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
> Acronis.
>
>

 

[XS11E]

Re: No restore points, redux.

Bobby Johnson <rjohnson@aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> I did and here's one of the best extracts:
>
> "Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
> companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
> bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
> chief."

Irrelevent, the problem still exists for most and it needs fixing by
MSFT or a work around from Acronis.



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org