W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

  • Thread starter Thread starter Olin K. McDaniel
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Olin K. McDaniel

Guest
In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.

My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
some sort of a hit.

It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
installation.

Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
someone out there can point out to me?

Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.

Thanks for any helpful ideas.

Olin McDaniel
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine


"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>
> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
> some sort of a hit.
>
> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
> installation.
>
> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
> someone out there can point out to me?
>
> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>
> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>
> Olin McDaniel
>

Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
hacker protection.

You can get msconfig.exe from here:
http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin K. McDaniel wrote:

> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>
> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
> some sort of a hit.
>
> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
> installation.
>
> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
> someone out there can point out to me?
>
> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>
> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>
For a start you don't need 2 systems. Win2k should be the one system to
be used, even if it means updating drivers for some of your hardware.
You should already have downloads for any of these drivers. Secondly,
your machine is a bit old although it will run well enough on Win2k
providing you have at least 125MB Ram, but sooner rather than later you
will end up with a major component failure, eg motherboard.

Rather than use msconfig to eliminate problems, just do a reinstall of
everything, (plan it and make a list of all software) then when you are
sure you have updated your PC to your satisfaction, do a back-up of the
system state. That way you can always restore your PC to that good state
if you find yourself with any driver/system problem again in less than 2
minutes.
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
wrote:

>
>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>
>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>> some sort of a hit.
>>
>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>> installation.
>>
>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>
>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>
>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>
>> Olin McDaniel
>>
>
>Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>hacker protection.
>
>You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>
>
Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
you suggest as the next try?

Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.

Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.

Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?

Olin
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine


"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:46c0de14.802191@news.east.earthlink.net...
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>>
>>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>>> some sort of a hit.
>>>
>>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>>> installation.
>>>
>>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>>
>>> Olin McDaniel
>>>
>>
>>Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>>far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>>Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>>happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>>the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>>hacker protection.
>>
>>You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>>http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>>
>>
> Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
> msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
> results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
> with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
> complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
> the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
> for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
> any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
> you suggest as the next try?
>
> Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
> left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
> Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.
>
> Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
> the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
> slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.
>
> Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
> Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?
>
> Olin
>

Using msconfig.exe, click the Services tab, tick the box that
lets you hide all MS services, then disable the rest and see
if this makes any difference.
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin K. McDaniel wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>>
>>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>>> some sort of a hit.
>>>
>>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>>> installation.
>>>
>>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>>
>>> Olin McDaniel
>>>
>> Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>> far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>> Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>> happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>> the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>> hacker protection.
>>
>> You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>> http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>>
>>
> Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
> msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
> results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
> with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
> complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
> the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
> for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
> any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
> you suggest as the next try?
>
> Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
> left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
> Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.
>
> Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
> the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
> slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.
>
> Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
> Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?
>
That machine is very old. Has it had a new disk at any time? It may be
that the disk drive is deteriorating slowly. It is unlikely to be a
software problem.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
'hilarious', it usually isn't?
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

I've seen this happen on a few computers, where the hard drive drops
into PIO mode instead of DMA. It acts exactly like you are
describing.

Check it like this:
Go into the Device Manager (Control Panel, System, Hardware Tab,
Device Manager)
Expand IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers
Double-click on Primary IDE Controller
Select "Advanced Settings" tab
The current transfer mode should have the word "DMA" in it -- perhaps
UltraDMA, or DMA Mode 5, or something like that.
If it does, then your problem is elsewhere.

However, if it shows PIO instead, then this is probably your problem.
The solution is to remove the Primary IDE Controller and reboot your
computer. When Windows restarts it should detect the controller, and
set it up in DMA mode.
To remove the controller, just right-click on Primary IDE Controller
in the device manager, and select "Uninstall".

Hope this helps.

Background: Windows continually monitors hard drive access. If
there are what Windows considers to be too many disk read errors, it
will assume the disk cannot reliably perform in DMA mode, and drops it
down to PIO mode. Usually the drive is just fine, but just in case,
it would be wise to run a chkdsk on it after completing the
reinstallation.

Daryl
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:57:52 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
wrote:

>
>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:46c0de14.802191@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>>>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>>>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>>>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>>>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>>>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>>>
>>>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>>>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>>>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>>>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>>>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>>>> some sort of a hit.
>>>>
>>>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>>>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>>>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>>>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>>>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>>>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>>>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>>>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>>>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>>>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>>>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>>>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>>>> installation.
>>>>
>>>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>>>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>>>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>>>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>>>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>>>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>>>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>>>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>>>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>>>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>>>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>>>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Olin McDaniel
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>>>far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>>>Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>>>happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>>>the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>>>hacker protection.
>>>
>>>You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>>>http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
>> msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
>> results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
>> with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
>> complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
>> the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
>> for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
>> any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
>> you suggest as the next try?
>>
>> Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
>> left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
>> Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.
>>
>> Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
>> the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
>> slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.
>>
>> Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
>> Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?
>>
>> Olin
>>
>
>Using msconfig.exe, click the Services tab, tick the box that
>lets you hide all MS services, then disable the rest and see
>if this makes any difference.
>
>
Pegasus-

Thanks for your patience, and sorry I was unable to follow the above
yesterday, but did do so today. Here's what occurred.

(Incidentally, I'm VERY grateful to have Win98 to rely on for things
like swapping posts, and other important usages. I'd be in really
tough shape if all I had was that Win2K mess, as it currently exists
on my machine.)

Today's report:

After hiding the MS services via checking the box, I attempted to
Disable all the remaining. But one refused, it was Adobe LM Service,
and it said I didn't have proper Administrator privilege. But I
continued, and rebooted. It again took 3.5 to 4 minutes to fill out
the Icons on the Desktop, and the HD activity continued until 7.5
minutes had passed. Upon reviewing the steps, I found that the Adobe
LM Service was now unchecked. But just to make sure, I did a search
and found the file "adobelmsvc.exe" and I renamed it with .ex_
extension and rebooted. It performed EXACTLY as before, 4 minutes and
7.5 minutes, respectively.

I went back to MSconfig and spotted that LM Service was now
"stopped", but there was another called "True Vector Internet Monitor"
still showing as "running". EVEN with its box unchecked!!!! I
believe that's a function of ZoneAlarm, even though I can't find any
such listing in the ZoneAlarm help files. At this point, I'm about
ready to uninstall ZoneAlarm and clean the Registry of any dregs, but
would like your opinion on this first.

Thanks, Olin
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:24:51 +1200, Enkidu <enkidu.com@com.cliffp.com>
wrote:

>Olin K. McDaniel wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>>>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>>>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>>>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>>>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>>>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>>>
>>>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>>>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>>>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>>>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>>>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>>>> some sort of a hit.
>>>>
>>>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>>>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>>>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>>>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>>>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>>>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>>>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>>>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>>>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>>>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>>>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>>>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>>>> installation.
>>>>
>>>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>>>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>>>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>>>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>>>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>>>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>>>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>>>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>>>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>>>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>>>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>>>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Olin McDaniel
>>>>
>>> Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>>> far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>>> Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>>> happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>>> the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>>> hacker protection.
>>>
>>> You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>>> http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
>> msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
>> results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
>> with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
>> complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
>> the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
>> for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
>> any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
>> you suggest as the next try?
>>
>> Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
>> left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
>> Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.
>>
>> Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
>> the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
>> slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.
>>
>> Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
>> Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?
>>
>That machine is very old. Has it had a new disk at any time? It may be
>that the disk drive is deteriorating slowly. It is unlikely to be a
>software problem.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Cliff
>
>--
Yep, it's now on at least the 3rd Hard Drive, this time it's a 160 GB
Maxtor, as I recall.
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:20:18 -0700, crap@daryllafferty.com wrote:

>I've seen this happen on a few computers, where the hard drive drops
>into PIO mode instead of DMA. It acts exactly like you are
>describing.
>
>Check it like this:
>Go into the Device Manager (Control Panel, System, Hardware Tab,
>Device Manager)
>Expand IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers
>Double-click on Primary IDE Controller
>Select "Advanced Settings" tab
>The current transfer mode should have the word "DMA" in it -- perhaps
>UltraDMA, or DMA Mode 5, or something like that.
>If it does, then your problem is elsewhere.
>
>However, if it shows PIO instead, then this is probably your problem.
>The solution is to remove the Primary IDE Controller and reboot your
>computer. When Windows restarts it should detect the controller, and
>set it up in DMA mode.
>To remove the controller, just right-click on Primary IDE Controller
>in the device manager, and select "Uninstall".
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Background: Windows continually monitors hard drive access. If
>there are what Windows considers to be too many disk read errors, it
>will assume the disk cannot reliably perform in DMA mode, and drops it
>down to PIO mode. Usually the drive is just fine, but just in case,
>it would be wise to run a chkdsk on it after completing the
>reinstallation.
>
>Daryl
>

Thanks, Daryl. My time today has about run out, I've got to get ready
to go to a meeting tonight. But I'll take a look at your suggestions
after the meeting, or tomorrow and get back with you. Remember
however the drive works fine in the dual boot mode when I boot up
under Windows 98 SE. If it weren't for that, I'd not be very
functional in reading anb replying to these posts - all of which are
being done in 98.

Olin

>
>
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine


"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:46c4aaad.161489@news.east.earthlink.net...
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:57:52 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:46c0de14.802191@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:37:38 +0200, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Olin K. McDaniel" <omcdaniel.abcd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:46bf8a5d.19158661@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In recently downloading all headers from the past several months and
>>>>> then downloading selected posts, I found a couple that addressed a
>>>>> problem very similar to one I've now got. However, there didn't seem
>>>>> to be a genuine solution to their problems, so I'm reopening
>>>>> essentially the same subject and asking for help. I may have a few
>>>>> different and perhaps more useful observations to throw out this time.
>>>>>
>>>>> My system consists of an older CPU (Pentium III, 600 MHz), and a
>>>>> matching MB. For years now I've used it as a Dual Boot System, one
>>>>> being Windows 98 SE and the other being Windows 2000 Pro, with Service
>>>>> Pack 4. (For the record, W98SE is FAT 16, while Win2K is FAT32).
>>>>> They both worked great for all this time, until recently Win2K took
>>>>> some sort of a hit.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is now very slow to bootup, about 4 minutes to complete the fill in
>>>>> of the Desktop Icons, and then another 5+ minutes of constant hard
>>>>> drive activity, before settling down. I learned from TaskManager that
>>>>> the only thing running during that 5+ minute period was "WinLogon.exe"
>>>>> and it was using between 70 and 90% of the CPU's time. Worst of all,
>>>>> even after all this fruitless activity quits, my installed software
>>>>> packages now take between 3 and 5 times as long to perform the
>>>>> functions as previously, and even as they take under Win98SE - on the
>>>>> SAME exact hardware. I've tried uninstalling various software
>>>>> packages from the Win 2K system, and have yet to make any meaningful
>>>>> improvement. I've about concluded it's probably not any installed
>>>>> software, but rather a failure in the Win 2K operating system
>>>>> installation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using this presumption, I've made a few trials at using the Win 2K
>>>>> installation CD, and the Service Pack 4 CD, but stopped short of
>>>>> reinstalling it. (I learned long ago that to do so, would result in
>>>>> having to reinstall most of my working software packages, and I really
>>>>> want to avoid that monstrous headache.) What I really was hoping to
>>>>> find was a choice of doing a "Repair Install" of Win 2K, as I know
>>>>> I've seen on at least one earlier version of Windows, but there
>>>>> doesn't seem that option exists here. Or am I missing something that
>>>>> someone out there can point out to me?
>>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally, I have a somewhat newer computer, for some specialized
>>>>> uses, and have Win 2K currently installed on it, and it runs
>>>>> flawlessly and at about 5 to 10 times faster. Of course it has a
>>>>> newer CPU and MB, but I know what Win 2K SHOULD DO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any helpful ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Olin McDaniel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your problem is unlikely to be caused by Windows 2000. It is
>>>>far more likely that some other program is interfering with it.
>>>>Run msconfig, then disable all startup programs and see what
>>>>happens. Make sure to physically disconnect your machine from
>>>>the Internet during this test because you may not have any virus
>>>>hacker protection.
>>>>
>>>>You can get msconfig.exe from here:
>>>>http://www.svrops.com/svrops/dwnldoth.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thank you for your suggestions. I did as you said, i.e. I obtained
>>> msconfig and started it up first in the Diagnostic mode, and the
>>> results were inconclusive. Then I switched to the Selective Startup
>>> with essentially most of the programs disabled. This cut the time to
>>> complete the Desktop from 4+ minutes to 3 minutes, BUT it did not stop
>>> the Hard Disk activity any sooner. It took over 7 minutes this time
>>> for this to complete, and under Task Manager the only thing showing
>>> any activity here was the same thing, i.e. WinLogon. So - what would
>>> you suggest as the next try?
>>>
>>> Incidentally, even though I cannot find the residue, there may be some
>>> left from F-Secure which I attempted to uninstall some months ago.
>>> Not sure if the timing coincides with this slowdown however.
>>>
>>> Further - a check using an application AFTER booting up with most of
>>> the programs disabled as stated above, showed it was still seriously
>>> slowed down. That program was PhotoShop CS2.
>>>
>>> Still one more unanswered question - is there any way to use the
>>> Repair feature from the Win2K factory CD?
>>>
>>> Olin
>>>
>>
>>Using msconfig.exe, click the Services tab, tick the box that
>>lets you hide all MS services, then disable the rest and see
>>if this makes any difference.
>>
>>
> Pegasus-
>
> Thanks for your patience, and sorry I was unable to follow the above
> yesterday, but did do so today. Here's what occurred.
>
> (Incidentally, I'm VERY grateful to have Win98 to rely on for things
> like swapping posts, and other important usages. I'd be in really
> tough shape if all I had was that Win2K mess, as it currently exists
> on my machine.)
>
> Today's report:
>
> After hiding the MS services via checking the box, I attempted to
> Disable all the remaining. But one refused, it was Adobe LM Service,
> and it said I didn't have proper Administrator privilege. But I
> continued, and rebooted. It again took 3.5 to 4 minutes to fill out
> the Icons on the Desktop, and the HD activity continued until 7.5
> minutes had passed. Upon reviewing the steps, I found that the Adobe
> LM Service was now unchecked. But just to make sure, I did a search
> and found the file "adobelmsvc.exe" and I renamed it with .ex_
> extension and rebooted. It performed EXACTLY as before, 4 minutes and
> 7.5 minutes, respectively.
>
> I went back to MSconfig and spotted that LM Service was now
> "stopped", but there was another called "True Vector Internet Monitor"
> still showing as "running". EVEN with its box unchecked!!!! I
> believe that's a function of ZoneAlarm, even though I can't find any
> such listing in the ZoneAlarm help files. At this point, I'm about
> ready to uninstall ZoneAlarm and clean the Registry of any dregs, but
> would like your opinion on this first.
>
> Thanks, Olin
>

I have a very low opinion of ZoneAlarm. It is known to slow down
machines (although not by as much as you report), it interferes with
lots of things and it can be difficult to remove.
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin,
The fact that it works fine when you dual boot in Windows 98 supports
my suggestion (DMA->PIO). Each operating system keeps a different
registry with settings for all the hardware, so one OS could have the
drive in PIO mode and the other in DMA.

It doesn't prove it, but it doesn't disprove it either.
Daryl
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:58:59 -0700, crap@daryllafferty.com wrote:

>Olin,
>The fact that it works fine when you dual boot in Windows 98 supports
>my suggestion (DMA->PIO). Each operating system keeps a different
>registry with settings for all the hardware, so one OS could have the
>drive in PIO mode and the other in DMA.
>
>It doesn't prove it, but it doesn't disprove it either.
>Daryl
>
>
>
Daryl,

Your suggestions as posted Tuesday were "dead on" the target!!! You
hit it exactly correctly.

I followed your steps to the letter, and just as you predicted the
Advanced Setting current transfer mode was indeed "PIO", not "DMA".

Your very precise instructions were really great, and easy to follow.
Just wish others who try to help were as careful of saying what's
needed and no more. Some say too much , some don't say enough. Yours
were exactly what worked for me.

Plus your final paragraph explaining the Background was also very
useful. It helped explain some of the many annoying events that had
been popping up over the past several months, i.e. it's clearly
evident I've had some increasing number of disk read errors.

After all this and getting it back to Ultra DMA, the startup steps
were much faster, but still some inconsistencies. So I ran ChkDsk as
you suggested, and seemingly it fixed a few things. But when I then
tried to run Defrag, it hit another obstacle. I went to bed with it
running, and this morning it had rebooted without any info on what it
did. So, I tried running Defrag Analyze again - now it hits another
obstacle. This thing is in far worse shape than I imagined, the fact
is, I can't decide what to uninstall, or should I just consider
Windows in a complete FUBAR state? And give up on it all?

Again, thanks to the Maker for little things, like having a working
Win98SE partition to use when MS's later one gets clobbered.

Before I give up completely, I think I'll start by Uninstalling Zone
Alarm.

Thanks,

Olin
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin,
Sounds like you might have a dying hard drive. I would be sure to
back up anything important before you do anything else.

If your hard drive is not too old, it should have "SMART" data
available -- stored data on disk read/write errors. There are
utilities that can read this from the hard drive -- I use SpinRite,
from grc.com, but it's about $70 and there are lots of other utilities
that can report on the SMART data. Google "hard drive smart" and
you'll get lots of hits, many which have demo versions. This guy
(http://www.pc-king.co.uk/tips3.htm) has links to some free utilities
that I haven't tried, but they look useful.

Of course, your hard drive may not be SMART enabled, or it may be
turned off in BIOS.

You might also determine what brand hard drive you have, and see if
you can download diagnostics from the manufacturer.

If everything indicates that your hard drive is OK, the next step
might be to do a repair install of Windows, as you mention above. If
you insert the Windows 2000 CD and select "Install", you should get a
menu where you can choose between installing fresh, or upgrading the
current installation. If you use the upgrade option, it will leave
all your installed programs intact. You will have to download any new
service packs and hotfixes, but that's not too bad, especially since
you said above that you already have SP4.

Hope this helps!

Daryl
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:52:52 -0700, crap@daryllafferty.com wrote:

>Olin,
>Sounds like you might have a dying hard drive. I would be sure to
>back up anything important before you do anything else.
>
>If your hard drive is not too old, it should have "SMART" data
>available -- stored data on disk read/write errors. There are
>utilities that can read this from the hard drive -- I use SpinRite,
>from grc.com, but it's about $70 and there are lots of other utilities
>that can report on the SMART data. Google "hard drive smart" and
>you'll get lots of hits, many which have demo versions. This guy
>(http://www.pc-king.co.uk/tips3.htm) has links to some free utilities
>that I haven't tried, but they look useful.
>
>Of course, your hard drive may not be SMART enabled, or it may be
>turned off in BIOS.
>
>You might also determine what brand hard drive you have, and see if
>you can download diagnostics from the manufacturer.
>
>If everything indicates that your hard drive is OK, the next step
>might be to do a repair install of Windows, as you mention above. If
>you insert the Windows 2000 CD and select "Install", you should get a
>menu where you can choose between installing fresh, or upgrading the
>current installation. If you use the upgrade option, it will leave
>all your installed programs intact. You will have to download any new
>service packs and hotfixes, but that's not too bad, especially since
>you said above that you already have SP4.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Daryl
>

Daryl,

To catch up again, I could not find any reference to "SMART" any where
on my system, either in BIOS nor during Bootup. But I followed your
suggestion and went to the link you gave, and downloaded as a first
check - the "HDD Health" freebie.

Before installing it, however, I wanted to clear my W2K system of any
possible traces of a previously uninstalled version of "F-Secure", and
found their appropriate download. I ran it, and it did indeed clear
some very obscure things, apparently. After this, the W2K option
booted up in 2.5 minutes to complete the Icons, but the HD activity
continued to a total of 5 minutes. This is better than before, but
still not right. Also Task Manager showed these last 2.5 mins. were
running WinLogon still. So, though better, still not fixed. And
still haven't removed Zone Alarm.

At this point I installed the "HDD Health" program, and it did indeed
show my drives have the SMART feature and they are enabled. OK, I let
things run for a while, and guess what? HDD suddenly showed I had a
few CRC read errors, even though the applications I tried seemed to
work ok.

So, I shut down W2K and came up in W98SE, and installed the "HDD
Health" package there. That's where I am, as this is being typed, and
after over 30 minutes on here, there are NO errors detected. I will
confess the partition sizes are not nearly equal, thus maybe the
errors are in a specific area of the drive. If so - what would you
recommend to use to move my data and "wall off" the defective portion
of that partition? Or does this send me to Maxtor for that sort of
help?

For the moment, I'll defer the reinstall (Upgrading) of Win2K, in case
the problem is really elsewhere.

Thanks again, Olin


To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin,
A few CRC errors are normal, and shouldn't be enough to make
everything run so slowly.
If your hard drive is going bad, it's common that it will occur on one
platter first, so yes, it might just happen in a partition used by
Win2K and not Win98.

Rather than manually "walling off" one portion of the drive, I would
use utilities built for that purpose. When you ran CHKDSK, did you
have it examine the drive for surface defects, or just check file and
directory structure? If you did a full scan it should have taken care
of things. There are other, better programs for this purpose (such as
SpinRite), but I don't think you need that right now.

On the other hand, your problems might now lie in SW. A lot of things
can cause this type of behaviour. I haven't heard any mention of
virus or spyware scanning. Spyware, adware, trojans and viruses can
all slow your computer down and cause lots of disk access. Here are
some free programs that can scan for these things:

Spybot (http://www.safer-networking.org/)
AVG Anti Virus (http://free.grisoft.com)
AVG Anti Spyware (http://free.grisoft.com)
AVG Anti Rootkit (http://free.grisoft.com)
AdAware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/)
HiJackthis (http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/programs.php)

If I were given your computer to fix, I'd probably give these a try
before doing anything else, starting with Spybot, then AdAware.
Hijackthis can be very useful, but takes some experience to
interpret. I've had good luck with all the AVG programs, but don't
install the anti-virus without uninstalling any other anti-virus
programs (Norton, McAfee, etc.) But if you've already got a reputable
anti-virus program running there's probably no reason to change.

Regarding ZoneAlarm, I've installed and maintained it on many
machines. The biggest problems I've seen with it is occasionally
blocking a valid connection, but I've never had problems with it
significantly slowing down a computer.

Daryl
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:34:07 -0700, crap@daryllafferty.com wrote:

>Olin,
>A few CRC errors are normal, and shouldn't be enough to make
>everything run so slowly.
>If your hard drive is going bad, it's common that it will occur on one
>platter first, so yes, it might just happen in a partition used by
>Win2K and not Win98.
>
>Rather than manually "walling off" one portion of the drive, I would
>use utilities built for that purpose. When you ran CHKDSK, did you
>have it examine the drive for surface defects, or just check file and
>directory structure? If you did a full scan it should have taken care
>of things. There are other, better programs for this purpose (such as
>SpinRite), but I don't think you need that right now.
>
>On the other hand, your problems might now lie in SW. A lot of things
>can cause this type of behaviour. I haven't heard any mention of
>virus or spyware scanning. Spyware, adware, trojans and viruses can
>all slow your computer down and cause lots of disk access. Here are
>some free programs that can scan for these things:
>
>Spybot (http://www.safer-networking.org/)
>AVG Anti Virus (http://free.grisoft.com)
>AVG Anti Spyware (http://free.grisoft.com)
>AVG Anti Rootkit (http://free.grisoft.com)
>AdAware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/)
>HiJackthis (http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/programs.php)
>
>If I were given your computer to fix, I'd probably give these a try
>before doing anything else, starting with Spybot, then AdAware.
>Hijackthis can be very useful, but takes some experience to
>interpret. I've had good luck with all the AVG programs, but don't
>install the anti-virus without uninstalling any other anti-virus
>programs (Norton, McAfee, etc.) But if you've already got a reputable
>anti-virus program running there's probably no reason to change.
>
>Regarding ZoneAlarm, I've installed and maintained it on many
>machines. The biggest problems I've seen with it is occasionally
>blocking a valid connection, but I've never had problems with it
>significantly slowing down a computer.
>
>Daryl
>
Hi again Daryl, and thanks for your patience. Other issues have taken
much of my spare time the past couple of days, but maybe I can resume
where we left off, at least to catch up where things are here.

First of all - I have done quite a bit of recent virus checking, on
both C:\ W98 and C:\W2K. For the first, I use a DOS version of
F-Protect, and run it from a DOS prompt. It found no signs of any
viruses,etc. there. On W2K (the much larger partition) I do have and
run frequently AVG AntiVirus Free. Again no virus, etc. found there.
Incidentally, I long ago got fed up with Norton and McAfee, they were
more trouble than they were worth, and no longer have either.
Incidentally, I do have AdAware, but haven't checked to see if it's
active or not, as I type this.

I ran ScanDisk several days ago, as I recall, but I didn't let it do a
"surface check", due to the extremely long time required. However, I
did run System Mechanic, not sure which version, but it's one that's
too advanced to run on W98, and is intended for W2K. It ran all
night, and didn't find anything, but neither did it improve the slow
boot of W2K. Just as a comparison, I ran the version seemingly suited
for W98 on W98, and DID let it do a "surface check" there, since the
partition is much smaller and less time required. It didn't find
anything there, but now W98 is perceptibly slower in booting - not
nearly like W2K, but still slower than before. Looks like I'm the
rabbit dealing with the Tar Baby! Not only that, a couple of programs
I normally run in W98 are misbehaving now. I may have to do a Restore
from a recent backup, if this continues. (I do have complete backups
of this smaller partition, but only partials of W2K's huge partition.
And some of them aren't reliable, so I try to avoid using them except
as a last resort.)

Now, to switch gears slightly - on the possibility this hard drive is
on the brink of a major failure, I bought a new Maxtor 320 GB HDD on
sale the other day. This presents me two new problems, how to "clone"
all the stuff off the old one (a total of 5 partitions) and how to
avail myself of this much HDD space. Currently this computer can only
utilize 137 GB, so looks like I need to buy a PCI card to connect the
new one into. Hope Maxtor still makes those Ultra ATA/133 adapter
cards, don't know if anyone locally carries them or not. Of course my
other option is to rebuild this computer with a modern MB and CPU,
which I've done several times in the past. Just don't want to tie up
so much time to do so, and be unable to do jobs I need to keep up with
until all of its bugs are resolved.

If you wish to back out of this discussion, I won't badger you any
more, but thanks for the help so far.

Olin

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

Olin,
If things on both partitions keep getting worse and worse, it's more
evidence that the problem is in hardware. However, I'd feel bad if
you copied everything over to a new hard drive and still had the same
problems!

Please remember that most virus scanners don't check for spyware, or
many of the Trojans. I would still run SpyBot and maybe AVG
AntiSpyware. AdAware is OK for some things, but misses a lot of the
more serious trojans. Spybot is a quick download, and runs pretty
fast too (half-hour or so, usually). One of the best spyware/trojan
scanners is SpySweeper, but it's not free so I usually save it for the
worst situations.

If in the end you decide to replace the hard drive, the old standby
for copying a partition is Ghost, from Symantec. It's not too
expensive for what it does. Another good program is BootIt from
www.terabyteunlimited.com. There are also free-ware programs that
will copy an image, but I'm not familiar with the latest ones and
can't recommend one.

Daryl
 
Re: W2K Bootup problem + slowed machine

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:49:24 -0700, crap@daryllafferty.com wrote:

>Olin,
>If things on both partitions keep getting worse and worse, it's more
>evidence that the problem is in hardware. However, I'd feel bad if
>you copied everything over to a new hard drive and still had the same
>problems!
>
>Please remember that most virus scanners don't check for spyware, or
>many of the Trojans. I would still run SpyBot and maybe AVG
>AntiSpyware. AdAware is OK for some things, but misses a lot of the
>more serious trojans. Spybot is a quick download, and runs pretty
>fast too (half-hour or so, usually). One of the best spyware/trojan
>scanners is SpySweeper, but it's not free so I usually save it for the
>worst situations.
>
>If in the end you decide to replace the hard drive, the old standby
>for copying a partition is Ghost, from Symantec. It's not too
>expensive for what it does. Another good program is BootIt from
>www.terabyteunlimited.com. There are also free-ware programs that
>will copy an image, but I'm not familiar with the latest ones and
>can't recommend one.
>
>Daryl
>
>

Dary,

Briefly, here's the latest situation report. A local friend here in
the Commercial Communication business just gave me his factory CD for
Ghost 2003, which he no longer uses. (Perhaps he bought a later
version, I don't get nosey, when a freebie occurs.)

Also, I talked to the owner of a Computer Business here about cloning
and he said they have a commercial machine just for that purpose.
All I need to do is pull the old HDD out, and take it plus the new
one, and they can clone it over in a few minutes. And the price is so
reasonable, I'd be foolish to do it myself. Before I do it though, I
need to be assured it will copy "address to address", otherwise I'll
lose my multiple boot capability since all OS's in such must have
their initial files in the space below the 8 GB "ceiling" for
multiple booting to work. At least with PowerQuest's "Boot Magic",
which is what I use.

As to the Maxtor ATA/133 adapter card, the one they recommend is no
longer available. In fact it appears Maxtor is no longer reachable,
so a friend found on eBAY a similar, but more recent card and has
ordered it for me. It seems focused on SATA drives, but claims to
work on PATA as well, hope it does. (I wonder how valid Maxtor's 3
year warranty is now, you reckon Seagate - their new owner - will
honor it on this new drive?)

Still progressing along, slowly but hopefully safely. Thanks for your
help. Oh, HDD Health still shows no significant problems yet and
except for the still slow boot in W2K, the programs are running about
where I think they should. Maybe some of the actions we took are
helping there, at least it looks like it.

Olin

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."
 

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