Re: Installation questions - 500GB Hard Drive
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"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:46D6CDCF.61B898C4@Guy.com...
> BeBopaLula wrote:
>
> > LargeHDD20 and LargeHDD30 'fixes, and the like.
>
> I haven't been following the HDD20 and HDD30 items so I'm not exactly
> sure what they refer to (have they done more work on the ESDI_506.PDR
> patching recently?)
Not very savvy about it actually, but had scoped about over there to see
what was going on and what they had in the offing. I think that the HDD20 is
hard to find now; links are dead. Probably available somewhere, but I
couldn't locate one. Contents of HDD20 were:
BigHDD 2.0
-------------------
esdi_506.pdr - LLXX version 4.10.2225 (up to version 4.10.2230)
defrag.exe - Windows Me
dskmaint.dll - Windows Me
scandskw.exe - Windows Me
format.exe - Free Format 0.91v
fdisk.exe - Free Fdisk 1.21
Documentations and Installation
HDD30 info can be found at:
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=92864
The ESDI_506.PDR in HDD30 has remained as it was in HDD20.
23.8 Kb (24,431 bytes)
Modified: Thursday, July 20, 2006 12:38:32 PM
File Version: 4.10.2230
MD5: 2871158D96E4DA8E227C655C783264EE
At any rate, there are a number of 'disputes' as to version numbering;
perhaps you'd make more sense of it than I. <s>
The major motions seem to focus on the Unofficial Win98 SE Service Pack
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?s=cd876debb095d584f8dfd274ac05282f&showforum=91
>
> > > When it comes to the basic hard-drive partitioning and
> > > formatting, DOS fdisk and format work just fine, and will
> > > even partition and format a 500 gb drive as a single volume.
> >
> > No problem with the basic Native W98se components/files then ?
>
> If you are referring to defrag and windows-scandisk, no, they will not
> break or corrupt a large hard drive as long as ESDI_506.PDR is taken
> care of first.
In my case, having Intelata.mpd and Intelvsd.vxd seems to have precluded
having any ESDI_506.PDR at all. Is that to be considered as having "taken
care of it" ? :-D
What the windows tools are not compatible with is a
> volume with a large number of clusters, which can happen if you use
> something like the WD software is used to prepare a drive and you
> force it to use a small cluster size. The win-98se versions of
> scandisk and defrag can't handle a volume with more than 4 million
> clusters, but the windows-ME versions can (but I don't know what their
> upper limit is). The DOS version of scandisk can handle a very large
> number of clusters.
As long as there's one way or another to manage that and not have a disaster
occur, then that's as good a scenario as I could hopr for. There's probably
a downside somewhere, but one must juggle things and do the best with the
option on hand.
>
> > I could be mistaken in that (as I do make mistakes), but
> > I swear I don't remember ever initiating an install of it.
>
> Maybe the IAA came pre-installed by Dell. In your C:\Program Files
> directory, do you have an Intel subdirectory? If so, in that
> directory do you have an "Intel Application Accelerator"
> subdirectory? If so, what is the date of that directory?
No such precise directory, but it is related to some drivers from Dell, and
an additional thing from Intel; that I did find out. Two directories of
Alphanumeric names, in The C:\Dell\Drivers, both dated May 30, 2003. One
Directory in C:\Program Files\Intel\Ultra ATA Storage Driver, dated
Wednesday, February 06, 2002 which has an IntelATA.exe. Looks quite like
what I expect the IAA to look like.
Don't ask me precisely what they are about, as the dates place their
creation roughly at the very beginning of my 'computer life'. I know only a
bit more now that I did then. *ggg*
>
> > > Regarding your partitioning strategy, I wouldn't create
> > > partitions any smaller than 32 gb.
I suppose I can give that a shot.
> >
> > Which would create clusters of approximately what size ?
>
> Normally, the DOS format program would use a cluster size of 16kb for
> a volume of 32 gb. It would switch to 32kb on volumes between 32 gb
> to 128 gb.
OK, that corresponds to what I have just learned at an Intel webpage and
equals the cluster size of my 40 GB. It's consistent with the fact. ;-)
>
> A 32 gb partition formatted with 4kb cluster size would result in 8
> million clusters.
Which has now exceeded native W98se maintenance tools abilities by double.
And that was only for 32 GB. heh
>
> > The WD Data Lifeguard Tool will be uneccessary in the sense of
> > running/ installing/initiating the DDO level of things (hope
> > I made that clear; sensible)
>
> You don't want to use the DDO, and I don't think that any motherboard
> made by anyone with a Pentium-4 would require the use of a DDO.
The more I read of it, the less I like it. But the WD Tool has more
features/functionality than I suspected. If the DDO can be avoided but the
other features of WD Lifeguard can be used, then it seems not bad at all. On
that note, It was the Intel App Accelerator which I was getting confused
with;. It's the IAA which doesn't manage partitioning.
>
> > if it senses that my MoBo, BIOS, etc, will support a *large Hard
> > Drive*. However, it will still be used as a basic format/
> > partitioning tool. Although somewhere I recollect reading that
> > the WD Data Lifeguard Tool isn't really capable as a partitioning
> > application. Do I have that correct ?
>
> The Data Lifeguard tools are fundamentally designed to prepare a new
> hard drive for use, so yes the ability to partition and format a hard
> drive is a fundamental aspect of it's functionality.
As a friend, and now you, have assured me.
>
> > So, do I need that WD DATA LIFEGUARD, or can I employ something
> > else.
>
> If you want to format your volumes using a non-standard cluster size
> (and I have pointed out the benefits and caveats of doing so) then
> yes, the WD software will allow you to do that. The DOS format
> program will not - it will select the cluster size based on it's own
> internal rules. The WD software has an advantage in that it will
> perform the partitioning and formatting process faster than using DOS
> fdisk and format.
Seems to be 2 persons in favor of WD Data Lifeguard then (and It's beginning
to get my vote as well.) <g>
>
> > Like Partition Magic or something like that ? Even the Basic
> > Native FDisk/Format, for that matter ? What would you truly
> > recommend, IF WD Data Lifeguard is in fact (?) superfluous ?
>
> I've tried Partition Magic, and maybe my recollection is hazy, but I
> think I wasn't able to set the cluster size to what I wanted it to be
> during the partitioning/formatting of a new drive. So for that reason
> again I prefer the WD software.
Interesting.
>
> > I'm already 'living with' 32 Kb clusters in my meagre Primary
> > 40 GB hard-drive under W98se (Unpartitioned as one 'big' drive)
> > so even at 16 Kb, that would be an improvement on the order of
> > 100% over what I now have.
>
> I would argue with your 100% number, but ok, continue -
You have my permission to (and math - amongst other things - was never my
strong suit). <g>
>
> > Secondly, as I understand it, if one deals with large files
> > (whatever constitutes the definition of a Large File), then a
> > larger cluster size is said to be preferable as far as
> > fragmentation and moving said large file is concerned. This
> > is what I have heard said.
>
> Well, NTFS sticks to 4kb cluster size regardless of the size of the
> volume. I suppose if you knew ahead of time that a particular volume
> was going to be used predominantly for large files then you can use
> large clusters on that volume.
Not sure if I can plan that far ahead; it involves an exact purview... and
math.
There's also an argument that the use
> of a cluster size that matches the drive's native sector size is
> optimal from a performance point of view.
I'll look that up. heh
>
> > And there would be no issue (as L'il Dave posited), that when
> > I finally wrote beyond the 128 GB range with W98se, that it'd
> > wrap around and start overwiting the beginning of the HD-D ?
>
> Yes. If you can correctly manipulate, move, copy, and delete files on
> that portion of the drive that lies beyond the 137 gb point, and such
> manipulation doesn't mess up the drives MBR or FAT tables or otherwise
> cause a raft of logical drive errors, then that would indicate
> compatibility with win-98.
That's a *big if*, but if it passes the test you mention, then I'll soon
find out is what I'm supposing. Won't do more than to test by *copying*
stuff there, that's for sure. And then do try what you said about defrag and
scandisk. And then, still leave things alone as far as critical moves until
a test/ break in period has come to pass. (Perhaps one month might be kind
of safe, I'd suppose).
>
> > > and you could use the 500 gb drive as your primary
> > > drive and install win-98 on the primary 32 gb partition.
> >
> > Would that preclude keeping my current W98se on HD-D 1
> > / 40 GB Primary ?
>
> No. I thought that perhaps you wanted to use the 500 gb drive as your
> only hard drive, or maybe use it as your primary drive (drive-1) and
> continue to use your XP drive as drive-2 - in which case you'd install
> 98se on the new drive on the primary partition (32 gb, formatted with
> 4kb clusters as I mentioned above).
I'll bat that around for a day or so.... see what I can decide on.
But I surely will be keeping both drives. I'll probably still keep 98se as
is, where it is - on the 40 GB.
IF, I can get past the hurdle of this one time - which is extremely
intimidating for me - then I'd have greater confidence (and willpower) to
change things if something revealed itself as being less than ideal.
>
> > IOW, Could I maintain W98se as is where it now resides on
> > 40 GB hard drive 0 (as designated in BIOS) - and not
> > necessarily install it on the 500 GB - and put WinXP Pro
> > on the 500GB HD-D Drive 1 (as designated in BIOS) ?
>
> It's up to you. It doesn't matter.
That's the best news I've heard all week 98 Guy !
)
I want to say thanks for taking all the time, getting into quite a bit of
detail - and showing considerable patience with me - on all this. I'm
deeply indebted to you for that.
It might take a day or so for me to truly get underway. If you're
interested, I'll post results (positive; it's to be hoped) in this thread.
Thanks again. (I've saved all these details you've provided for handy
reference.)
Cheers,
BeBop...........