Getting paid to program

No way.
For a trader, the sky is the limit.

A programmer (freelancer, of course) is limited by his need to sleep and eat and socialize. At x hrs a week the limit is reached.

A trader is less limited. Buy twice as much. Sell twice as much. Earn twice as much. But the effort is almost the same.
 
I think that this service sux.

Youll have to do some stupid job for nothing.
Getting paid 4$ to do a "homework" that take 2 hours.

Sorry not for me.

I hear those who are from India or else... they say : "Heyyyy getting paid 400$ for a job ! its month pay !"
Yeah... but not for me. Its a week pay ... at least ! And its not worth the effort. We call this kind of job "cheap labor". Company get the best programmer at the lowest price. They dont care of the quality of the job or else... they want cheap programming.

Theyll get what they got : cheap program
 
Didnt have the time to win.
I offer my service for 1... asked 7$... and it was given to

Name: hungheykwun
(see ratings)
in Kuantan, Pahang
Malaysia (see local date/time)

Well... you see that they are looking for cheap coding !
Okkk okkkk... I didnt know how he charged... he is well experienced...
How much do you think he asked ?

I think about 4 or 5 dollars ...
Damn.... Rent-A-Coder could get lost in the web an Ill dont give a ****.

:D
 
Arch4ngel,

I am strongly disagree with what you had been talking about. USD-5 an hour is damn a lot in Malaysia. Do you know, most of the professionals in Malaysia could only earn USD-25 a day. And for those cheap labor, it is only USD-7/10 a day.

Just imagine, what is the different between professional and cheap labor in malaysia. DONT simply judge with how muh they are getting paid. This is because USD is big and our curreny in Malaysia is low. And further more, our living expenses is low as well. "With your low pay, we could have a high life style in Malaysia"

So, please.... people who are getting that paid dont deserve this critisism.
 
Ya... maybe... but I think that compagny all "export" their programming job to other country where their currency is very low so they dont have to pay too much for a program.

(Same thing with Nike, remember ? Building their shoes elsewhere like Mexico ?)

We call this universalization (is this the right term ?). Anyway they try to pay less for a service that wont cost less when it goes to us.

Think also that they got the money to pay other program much more than they do... and they dont do it.

I think programming is becoming cost related much more than everything else.

Anyway Its my opinion no ?
 
Thoughts on Software Piracy

Personally i think that software that can reach a LARGE audiance is the most profitable for a programmer, because the amount of people that can purchase your software isnt just limited to one company or person, and all the code you make is yours!

Now the issue of software piracy comes into play:

Say you wrote a program and sold it for $10
say 100 people buy it, you make $1000
Now what if 15,000 download it for free (piracy) but only 10% buy it, you still make $1500
So software piracy can be helpful...
(just an example)

so anyways doing custom jobs is good for quick money but making comsumer software is more profitable in the long run, IMO

Thats just my 2 cents

Thanks, Andrew
 
Arch4ngel said:
Ya... maybe... but I think that compagny all "export" their programming job to other country where their currency is very low so they dont have to pay too much for a program.
I believe the real money is in Ad-Hoc integration.
Everyone has super apps on their desktops, like Office, Lotus Notes, etc. . .
But few use them in a streamlined manner.
Overseas Software Sweatshops can crank out these super apps but they just overwhelm the end users. The end users will ALWAYS pay good money for quick and easy to use mission critical reporting and analysis mini-apps that integrate with their existing desktop systems.

Now to do this right, it demands the programmer use sound technique in order to aggregate these mini-apps over time into toolsets.
 
A Good Reason to Sign a Contract

I was asked to "convert" (play with it and make a new app that interfaces with the old database and has the same features) an old software app (that was written for the company by an old employee who is nolonger there) to VB.Net and stay on as a freelance programmer to alter it as needed as they resell it. The pay is 100% proportional to what it brings in and how much work I do on it. IE, if only a sales guy and I are involved and it makes 10,000 then Id get $6,000.

Bear in mind, this is my first real work after graduating college.

Stupidly, I did not get a contract.

Im working on it, get about 3/4ths the way done and they start talking about improvements. A few companies are "demoing" the old program and want to pay money for a customized version of it (mine). The guys I work for start to discuss future plans. Fine, I can give input on that.

Then they start telling me to impliment them on what Im working on. Hold on here. Im replicating the origional first. One thing at a time. Now its the Origional w/ a few modifications. This puts me back about 50% done as I had to redo a lot of ADO.Net properties.

I go to a meeting the other day and they look over my 90% done program. "Great. This company we sold it to wants these changes and have been herassing us for them for about 6 months" ***!? Why would you sell something you dont have and promise them something you havnt asked the programmer to do yet!?

So I start talking with the owner who starts asking how long each individual enhancement will take, which I absolutely hate. Sometimes I dont know. If I run into something I dont know how to do, I need to research it (like ADO.Net, I could rewrite this program in like 1/10th the time now that I know it). This is how it goes:

"I want this to do something different, to focus on the middlemen instead of the end customers."
"Well its written for customers, thats what the origional program does"
"How long to change it?"
"About an evenings work" (take into consideration that this isnt my day job and an evening can be anywere from 3-8 hours)
"Ok, Ill consider it done then. Next..."

I think to myself "Whatever, Ill do it". Then Hes totals everything up. I need it done by friday. Of course he tallied my "Evenings" as nothing. Since it was tuesday night that was out. I have Wed night, thursday and friday night to get it done, or the customers are walking.

You think this might have been mentioned a week or two ago? So I could plan my schedule to get it done?

Its like having a crappy old car. Youre screwed. You have to pay 300 to fix it. Youve spent 2,000 on it already, which is all a loss if you dont fix it. So you fix it, but something else comes up. In this case its time. Ive invested A LOT of time on this project. If I just endure a little more Ill hit my payoff.

Of course the one smart thing Ive done is to sidestep any discussion of me giving them the sourcecode. Theres no contract so as far as Im concerned, its mine. Theyre going to be as dependant on me in the future as I am of them at this moment. Theyve invested a lot of money to get a working program they can have altered. No source code = No Altering.

This is my one bargaining chip with them. Some of the guys are Old Skool programmers, back when the black and green screen was new technologies. I dont think they know enough about .net to decompile it. Heck, I might even compile the whole program if it will prevent them from getting at the code. I dont care if it takes a performance hit.

Ive been getting random paychecks at random intervals, which confuses me because Im supposed to be on a % of the profits.

I fear them getting my program and just "reselling" it to multiple people without cutting me in on it... which is another reason why Im very reluctant to give up the source code.

And these are good reasons to NEVER take a job (web design, programming, graphics design, layout, etc) without a contract up front.

Ask yourself "In what possible way can this go bad/sour?" instead of saying "That will never happen", take my advice and believe that it will. It may not, but act as if it will. Look out for yourself or youll end up getting suckered into doing more work just to break even or get what you agreed on for the lesser work.
 
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