U
Unruh
Guest
Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive
Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive
caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>Unruh wrote:
>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>>
>>> Unruh wrote:
>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...
>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...
>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>> 8<
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing
>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I
>>>>>>>>>> select use
>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of
>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap
>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of
>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap
>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.
>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.
>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?
>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were
>>>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win
>>>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.
>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use
>>>>>>>>> the whole disk.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for
>>>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that
>>>>>>>> is an addition.
>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win
>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is
>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.
>>>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to
>>>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you
>>>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all
>>>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the
>>>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is
>>>>>>> where the problem lies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and
>>>>>> then applies the changes.
>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.
>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up
>>>>>> the warning about destroying data.
>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I
>>>>>> have not checked myself).
>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and
>>>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.
>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.
>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to
>>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up
>>>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate
>>>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the
>>>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and
>>>> whether or not they are adequate.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or
>>> not, or even if they are given or not,
>>> how can you even comment?
>>
>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous
>> comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I
>> seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the
>> warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a
>> warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the
>> warning actually is?
>Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to
>get a screen shot in here,
> "If you continue,the changes listed below
>will be written to the
>disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further
>changes manually.
>Warning: This will destroy all data on any
>partition you have removed as well as on the
>partitions that are going to be formatted.
>................................
>Write the changes to disk?"
>caver1
I believe that occurs during the formatting, not the selection of
partitions. And the warning is generic. It comes up if you placed
partitions onto a completely empty disk, as well as one that was previously
partitioned. The system KNOWS if the disk had previous partitions on it. It
is at that point that the system should warn you, not after it has
repartitioned the disk. It especially KNOWS if there were NTFS partitions
on the disk previously. That is when it should give the warning. IF the
user selects manaul repartitioning, the system may well assume that he
knows what he is doing. If the system automatically repartitions the disk
for the user, the system should assume that the person's grasp of
partitioning is weak and be extra careful to give warnings, and not generic
idiotic warnings like the above, which you get if you partition a brand new
completely blank disk.
I believe that the OP stated that the Ubuntu people have admitted that the
lack of warning is a bug. If there is a lack of warning at the
repartitioning stage, then that IS a bug.
Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive
caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>Unruh wrote:
>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>>
>>> Unruh wrote:
>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...
>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...
>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>> 8<
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing
>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I
>>>>>>>>>> select use
>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of
>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap
>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of
>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap
>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.
>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.
>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?
>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were
>>>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win
>>>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.
>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use
>>>>>>>>> the whole disk.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for
>>>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that
>>>>>>>> is an addition.
>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win
>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is
>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.
>>>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to
>>>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you
>>>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all
>>>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the
>>>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is
>>>>>>> where the problem lies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and
>>>>>> then applies the changes.
>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.
>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up
>>>>>> the warning about destroying data.
>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I
>>>>>> have not checked myself).
>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and
>>>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.
>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.
>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to
>>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up
>>>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate
>>>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the
>>>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and
>>>> whether or not they are adequate.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or
>>> not, or even if they are given or not,
>>> how can you even comment?
>>
>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous
>> comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I
>> seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the
>> warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a
>> warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the
>> warning actually is?
>Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to
>get a screen shot in here,
> "If you continue,the changes listed below
>will be written to the
>disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further
>changes manually.
>Warning: This will destroy all data on any
>partition you have removed as well as on the
>partitions that are going to be formatted.
>................................
>Write the changes to disk?"
>caver1
I believe that occurs during the formatting, not the selection of
partitions. And the warning is generic. It comes up if you placed
partitions onto a completely empty disk, as well as one that was previously
partitioned. The system KNOWS if the disk had previous partitions on it. It
is at that point that the system should warn you, not after it has
repartitioned the disk. It especially KNOWS if there were NTFS partitions
on the disk previously. That is when it should give the warning. IF the
user selects manaul repartitioning, the system may well assume that he
knows what he is doing. If the system automatically repartitions the disk
for the user, the system should assume that the person's grasp of
partitioning is weak and be extra careful to give warnings, and not generic
idiotic warnings like the above, which you get if you partition a brand new
completely blank disk.
I believe that the OP stated that the Ubuntu people have admitted that the
lack of warning is a bug. If there is a lack of warning at the
repartitioning stage, then that IS a bug.
