XP64 usefull for me?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nice Bike
  • Start date Start date
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:

> (and yes, you should definitely not be running with UAC off. BAD
> idea.)


Agreed, if there was ANY way I could run with UAC on I would but...



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

Hi, Nice Bike.

> So you say that putting the swapfile in a partition of it's own will
> boost performance? I will try that! I always was under the impression
> that putting swapfiles on drivers OTHER then the systemdrive would
> boost performance. And with games more so, never put the swapfile on
> the same drive as the gamefiles.


One of the great ongoing "religious battles". ;^}

My opinion: If you have multiple hard drives, put the swap file on a
different physical drive - a different spindle. Since a hard drive's heads
are permanently fixed together as a unit, they can't read data from track
100 and swap to track 5000 at the same time; the whole "gang" has to move
from 100 to 5000 - and then back again to continue reading from 100. But if
the swap file is on a second HD, then reading from track 100 on HD0 and
writing to track 5000 on HD1 can be happening simultaneously. Multiply that
by a few thousand read/writes an hour and you should see some speed gains.
But putting the swap file ANYWHERE on the same HD (the same spindle) as the
OS is not likely to gain much speed. So it doesn't help to have the swap
file is in Drive X: if Drive X: is just another partition on the same
physical drive (same spindle, same gang of heads). If you have only a
single physical drive, then any speed gain is going to be minimal, no matter
where you put the swap file.

I'm no gamer and I'm not sure just how they use the drives, but I would
guess that you should try to put the swap file on a physical drive other
than the one that has the game's executable files and data - and still
separate from the systemdrive.

Still one of the best articles on this subject is the one written by MVP
Alex Nichol, who died in 2005. The article was written for WinXP, but the
ideas apply to Vista, too: Virtual Memory in Windows XP;
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm (While you are there, be sure to
explore that www.aumha.org website; LOTS of good information there.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta 2 in Vista Ultimate x64)

"Nice Bike" <nowhere@alpha.net> wrote in message
news:sgchi3tsmecu5115r1ei5alro49udg1qgd@4ax.com...
> I did read what Charlie said about the directory structure, I replied
> to him saying that I already have to cut the large amounts of files
> into smaller sub-directories. I'm not familiar to this newsgroup, but
> is he the resident expert here?
>
> So you say that putting the swapfile in a partition of it's own will
> boost performance? I will try that! I always was under the impression
> that putting swapfiles on drivers OTHER then the systemdrive would
> boost performance. And with games more so, never put the swapfile on
> the same drive as the gamefiles.
> I'm not sure if buying more RAM for an older system is such a good
> idea. I was thinking of upgrading, then I will put in 4GB RAM.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:33:29 +0100, "Tony Sperling"
> <tony.sperling@db<REMOVE>mail.dk> wrote:
>
>>I can't predict what figure you would get with your HD, but I strongly
>>assume something in the vicinity of 80, as I remember, I had 88 and that
>>was
>>pretty much the same Seagate drive.
>>
>>It's not the CPU that's your problem, rather amount of RAM and the thing
>>with the HD. They are real bottlenecks.
>>
>>But check out what Charlie said about the directory structure - if he
>>takes
>>the time to mention this, you will be surprised!
>>
>>And the extra HD! Delete all partitions on that drive and first create one
>>small Primary Partition (some 10 GB?) where you can put the swapfile,
>>leave
>>some swapfile space on the system drive!
>>
>>I bet you will see a real boost from those two easy steps alone!
>>
>>
>>Tony. . .
>>
>>
>>"Nice Bike" <nowhere@alpha.net> wrote in message
>>news:vm6hi3pbsukflv3irfn00bh2l9djdr4g35@4ax.com...
>>> Humm, I'm putting WIN XP64 aside for now.
>>> I have an Athlon 64 3000+ @2GHz with 1GB RAM and SATA I, obvious to
>>> obsolete for x64.
>>> This 'older' system serves me well for now, it's just the large amount
>>> of file accessing that's the problem.
>>> I actually do have a smaller HD for the swapfile.
>>> Talking about HD speed, I get 50-60 MB/sec with my current SATA II
>>> drives on the SATA I controllers, what would be the speed increase if
>>> I upgrade the mainboard with SATA II controllers?
>>> The most new games run very choppy on this system, but I don't do
>>> allot of gaming. I was thinking of getting, eventually, a dual core
>>> CPU AMD, with appropriate mainboard.
>>> Would Vista 64 run better then XP64 on such a system?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your advice.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:29:34 +0100, "Tony Sperling"
>>> <tony.sperling@db<REMOVE>mail.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well, to be blunt - on that system I very much doubt that x64 would do
>>>>much
>>>>of a difference. One observation I could make is that motherboards these
>>>>days are not very expensive. Memory too, at the moment is down-right
>>>>cheap.
>>>>Whichever way you turn, that will help a lot. I'd say, you need 2GB of
>>>>dual-channel memory and definitely have your HD on a compatible
>>>>controller.
>>>>You might also try and invest in a smaller, really fast HD to carry your
>>>>swap-file.
>>>>
>>>>As it is, the system does not seem to bee well suited for present-day
>>>>heavy-duty work. And I'm not criticising the quality. I have one six
>>>>year
>>>>old machine with an Athlon XP 2400+ and 1GB memory. It gives me full
>>>>pleasure with it's speed and stability, but I wouldn't use it for any
>>>>heavy
>>>>stuff.
>>>>
>>>>The 64bit instruction might actually be slower since it is only used to
>>>>access more memory than the 32bit OS can address, it is certainly not
>>>>faster - the data-path that comes along will be the important part.
>>>>Compare
>>>>with a motorway, if all the lanes are full to beginn with, doubling the
>>>>width with more lanes will allow you to travel faster. If the lanes are
>>>>not
>>>>filled, having more lanes does not shorten the traveling time. So, from
>>>>that
>>>>point - your system might be struggling from over-work, which the 64bit
>>>>OS
>>>>would help speeding up, but the 64bit OS would be bogged down from the
>>>>hardware bottlenecks of that system. So, you would be having a one step
>>>>forward/ one step back situation!
>>>>
>>>>Even so, experience tells us that putting XP x64 on an older system in
>>>>an
>>>>attempt to upgrade it, is a bad idea. If your workload demands it, buy a
>>>>new
>>>>machine targeting on that OS and you will most likely be very happy with
>>>>the
>>>>result.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tony. . .
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

I've been running with UAC on since before it shipped. I've not yet found a
single thing to change that opinion. I have two things I do to make life
easier - I open a PowerShell window _as administrator_ and keep it open.
(and I have a startup script for PowerShell that turns that window a nice,
dark red background so I always know I'm in it, not the regular PS window)

The other thing I did was create identical drive mappings in that elevated
prompt.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


"XS11E" <xs11e@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99DA89D414ADCxs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:
>
>> (and yes, you should definitely not be running with UAC off. BAD
>> idea.)

>
> Agreed, if there was ANY way I could run with UAC on I would but...
>
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

How not? I run with it on full time and have for >1year.

One thing I do that helps - I open a powershell window _as admin_ and keep
it open for when I need to run something with elevated privileges. And have
a startup script for it that maps the same drive letters as my regular
environment, and turns the window background dark red so I always know it's
the elevated one.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


"XS11E" <xs11e@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99DA89D414ADCxs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:
>
>> (and yes, you should definitely not be running with UAC off. BAD
>> idea.)

>
> Agreed, if there was ANY way I could run with UAC on I would but...
>
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:

> How not?


UAC breaks a program I'm unwilling to do without. I've tried several
workarounds but no fix and the author has not yet and probably won't
update the software so... UAC is off and will remain off. The only
alternative is to dump Vista and go back to XP.



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

I'm going to assume you have tried all the obvious workarounds, but they
include:
* Run this program as administrator (from compatibility tab of the icon for
it.)
* Run in compatibility mode for XP SP2
* Initiate from an already elevated prompt (see my comment about keeping an
open PowerShell window. Same is possible for cmd, and even for IE)

I haven't found one that won't respond to at least one of those so far.
--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


"XS11E" <xs11e@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99DB93B914Cxs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:
>
>> How not?

>
> UAC breaks a program I'm unwilling to do without. I've tried several
> workarounds but no fix and the author has not yet and probably won't
> update the software so... UAC is off and will remain off. The only
> alternative is to dump Vista and go back to XP.
>
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote:

> I'm going to assume you have tried all the obvious workarounds,
> but they include:
> * Run this program as administrator (from compatibility tab of the
> icon for it.)
> * Run in compatibility mode for XP SP2
> * Initiate from an already elevated prompt (see my comment about
> keeping an open PowerShell window. Same is possible for cmd, and
> even for IE)


> I haven't found one that won't respond to at least one of those so
> far.


I have, IE Privacy Keeper. It wipes cookies, history, etc. when IE or
Firefox is closed but allows me to specify cookies I want to keep
such as my local newspaper, etc.

It worked perfectly on RTM but some later update moved cookies from
the folder ...\Cookies to ..\Cookies\Low and IE Privacy Keeper will NOT
recognize that folder nor will UAC allow it to be deleted
sooooooo..... UAC is off and I've written them several times with no
answer.

The last update was 2005 so I think the program is dead but
nothing else works exactly like it does....



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

"Nice Bike" <nowhere@beta.info> wrote in message
news:077fi3h7gdbkqiessa4e2bdspno8e2h11f@4ax.com...
> Using XP pro now. I'm doing allot of large amount-file-moving from
> directory to directory. So I'm using Windows Explorer allot with cut
> and paste. WIN XP seems very slow sometimes when accessing directories
> with large amounts of files 20,000+ or so.
>
> So, I was thinking of installing WIN XP-64bit. Will it be faster for
> me with al the file moving and organizing I'm doing? I wont be using
> any 64bit applications per se.
>



From my own experience on a desktop system with IDE and SATAII drives, XP
Pro x86 and X64, the answer is nope. You'll get pretty much the same
results in both OSs. I do all my photography now in digital, and I'm often
moving fairly large volumes of files/folders around. Both on this system
and to external LAN hard drives. Moving a few gigs of files simply takes a
little while.
McG.
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

I was hoping to get rid of the swapfile altogether with 4GB of RAM in
the new system I'm going to build. Or is that not possible? Will there
always be a need for a swapfile?



On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:17:59 -0500, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
wrote:

>Hi, Nice Bike.
>
>> So you say that putting the swapfile in a partition of it's own will
>> boost performance? I will try that! I always was under the impression
>> that putting swapfiles on drivers OTHER then the systemdrive would
>> boost performance. And with games more so, never put the swapfile on
>> the same drive as the gamefiles.

>
>One of the great ongoing "religious battles". ;^}
>
>My opinion: If you have multiple hard drives, put the swap file on a
>different physical drive - a different spindle. Since a hard drive's heads
>are permanently fixed together as a unit, they can't read data from track
>100 and swap to track 5000 at the same time; the whole "gang" has to move
>from 100 to 5000 - and then back again to continue reading from 100. But if
>the swap file is on a second HD, then reading from track 100 on HD0 and
>writing to track 5000 on HD1 can be happening simultaneously. Multiply that
>by a few thousand read/writes an hour and you should see some speed gains.
>But putting the swap file ANYWHERE on the same HD (the same spindle) as the
>OS is not likely to gain much speed. So it doesn't help to have the swap
>file is in Drive X: if Drive X: is just another partition on the same
>physical drive (same spindle, same gang of heads). If you have only a
>single physical drive, then any speed gain is going to be minimal, no matter
>where you put the swap file.
>
>I'm no gamer and I'm not sure just how they use the drives, but I would
>guess that you should try to put the swap file on a physical drive other
>than the one that has the game's executable files and data - and still
>separate from the systemdrive.
>
>Still one of the best articles on this subject is the one written by MVP
>Alex Nichol, who died in 2005. The article was written for WinXP, but the
>ideas apply to Vista, too: Virtual Memory in Windows XP;
>http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm (While you are there, be sure to
>explore that www.aumha.org website; LOTS of good information there.)
>
>RC
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

You should always have a swap file.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


"Nice Bike" <nowhere@alpha.net> wrote in message
news:0khni3p4ti2ee3s03eh5jc183dphhcvkct@4ax.com...
>I was hoping to get rid of the swapfile altogether with 4GB of RAM in
> the new system I'm going to build. Or is that not possible? Will there
> always be a need for a swapfile?
>
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:17:59 -0500, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi, Nice Bike.
>>
>>> So you say that putting the swapfile in a partition of it's own will
>>> boost performance? I will try that! I always was under the impression
>>> that putting swapfiles on drivers OTHER then the systemdrive would
>>> boost performance. And with games more so, never put the swapfile on
>>> the same drive as the gamefiles.

>>
>>One of the great ongoing "religious battles". ;^}
>>
>>My opinion: If you have multiple hard drives, put the swap file on a
>>different physical drive - a different spindle. Since a hard drive's
>>heads
>>are permanently fixed together as a unit, they can't read data from track
>>100 and swap to track 5000 at the same time; the whole "gang" has to move
>>from 100 to 5000 - and then back again to continue reading from 100. But
>>if
>>the swap file is on a second HD, then reading from track 100 on HD0 and
>>writing to track 5000 on HD1 can be happening simultaneously. Multiply
>>that
>>by a few thousand read/writes an hour and you should see some speed gains.
>>But putting the swap file ANYWHERE on the same HD (the same spindle) as
>>the
>>OS is not likely to gain much speed. So it doesn't help to have the swap
>>file is in Drive X: if Drive X: is just another partition on the same
>>physical drive (same spindle, same gang of heads). If you have only a
>>single physical drive, then any speed gain is going to be minimal, no
>>matter
>>where you put the swap file.
>>
>>I'm no gamer and I'm not sure just how they use the drives, but I would
>>guess that you should try to put the swap file on a physical drive other
>>than the one that has the game's executable files and data - and still
>>separate from the systemdrive.
>>
>>Still one of the best articles on this subject is the one written by MVP
>>Alex Nichol, who died in 2005. The article was written for WinXP, but the
>>ideas apply to Vista, too: Virtual Memory in Windows XP;
>>http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm (While you are there, be sure to
>>explore that www.aumha.org website; LOTS of good information there.)
>>
>>RC

>
 
Re: XP64 usefull for me?

yes, you'll always need a swap file.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


"Nice Bike" <nowhere@alpha.net> wrote in message
news:0khni3p4ti2ee3s03eh5jc183dphhcvkct@4ax.com...
>I was hoping to get rid of the swapfile altogether with 4GB of RAM in
> the new system I'm going to build. Or is that not possible? Will there
> always be a need for a swapfile?
>
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:17:59 -0500, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi, Nice Bike.
>>
>>> So you say that putting the swapfile in a partition of it's own will
>>> boost performance? I will try that! I always was under the impression
>>> that putting swapfiles on drivers OTHER then the systemdrive would
>>> boost performance. And with games more so, never put the swapfile on
>>> the same drive as the gamefiles.

>>
>>One of the great ongoing "religious battles". ;^}
>>
>>My opinion: If you have multiple hard drives, put the swap file on a
>>different physical drive - a different spindle. Since a hard drive's
>>heads
>>are permanently fixed together as a unit, they can't read data from track
>>100 and swap to track 5000 at the same time; the whole "gang" has to move
>>from 100 to 5000 - and then back again to continue reading from 100. But
>>if
>>the swap file is on a second HD, then reading from track 100 on HD0 and
>>writing to track 5000 on HD1 can be happening simultaneously. Multiply
>>that
>>by a few thousand read/writes an hour and you should see some speed gains.
>>But putting the swap file ANYWHERE on the same HD (the same spindle) as
>>the
>>OS is not likely to gain much speed. So it doesn't help to have the swap
>>file is in Drive X: if Drive X: is just another partition on the same
>>physical drive (same spindle, same gang of heads). If you have only a
>>single physical drive, then any speed gain is going to be minimal, no
>>matter
>>where you put the swap file.
>>
>>I'm no gamer and I'm not sure just how they use the drives, but I would
>>guess that you should try to put the swap file on a physical drive other
>>than the one that has the game's executable files and data - and still
>>separate from the systemdrive.
>>
>>Still one of the best articles on this subject is the one written by MVP
>>Alex Nichol, who died in 2005. The article was written for WinXP, but the
>>ideas apply to Vista, too: Virtual Memory in Windows XP;
>>http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm (While you are there, be sure to
>>explore that www.aumha.org website; LOTS of good information there.)
>>
>>RC

>
 
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