The Vista Death Watch

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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp

by John C. Dvorak

Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply
not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if
we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained
flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around
the number of Macs in use.

How did this happen? And what's going to happen next? Does Microsoft
have a Plan B? A number of possibilities come to mind, and these
things must be considered by the company itself.

So what went wrong with Vista in the first place? Let's start off with
the elephant in the room. The product was overpriced from the outset.
Why was it so expensive? What was special about it? All the cool and
promised features of the original vision of Longhorn were gutted
simply because it was beyond Microsoft's capability to implement those
features.

This failure to deliver what was promised--even after several delays in
the product's release, by the way--did nothing to excite anyone. It
made the company look bad. It directly resulted in a no-confidence
vote that was manifested in a lackluster reception and low sales.
Microsoft should have scrapped the project two years ago and instead
patched XP until it could deliver something hot.

To make things worse, there are too many versions. Exactly what is the
point of that? Don't we all just want Vista Ultimate? The other
versions seem like a way to maybe save money for some users who cannot
afford to get the real thing. You can be certain this version glut
results only in complaints about what each variation is missing.

Microsoft's initial approach to marketing this turkey was obviously
going to be to put it on just new machines, which would eventually
saturate the market, but the PC manufacturers squawked and demanded
the continuation of XP sales. Though there is some chatter about how
Linux could use this lull in the Microsoft juggernaut to make some
real headway onto the desktop, this is unlikely to happen. But
Microsoft, with all its paranoid thinking, might have believed it to
be possible. So XP is still with us and will be until deep into next
year.

I should mention here that much of this mess, I strongly believe, is
due to Microsoft's recent obsession with Google and online search. Now
Microsoft wants to be in the advertising business because Google is in
the advertising business. Meanwhile, it can't do its real job.


So what can Microsoft do to improve things with Vista? Here are three
suggestions:

1. It can give up on the stupid variations and lower the price on the
one good Vista, Vista Ultimate. I'd say $99 would be a price everyone
can live with.

2. Microsoft can scuttle the entire product. Why not? Work on a whole
new OS starting today with one team and work on SP3 for XP with
another team to keep users on Windows.

3. Roll out Vista 2.0. Figure out some way to add some nifty features,
perhaps stolen from the next version of the Mac OS. Bring in some
outside designers if you have to. Oh, and lower the price on this one,
too.

I remember the old Bill Gates speeches of the mid-1980s when
Microsoft, as he told it, "sold code." Selling code was what he did,
and selling code is a terrific business once you are established. It's
even better if you can monopolize a market with your code. It's easy
money compared with most businesses. Halo 3 is code. It sold $175
million worth of code on its first day of release. Once code is fixed
in place and burned onto a CD-ROM or DVD, it has a manufacturing cost
of a buck or two and sells for anywhere from $30 to $1,000 or more.

But Microsoft sees a new kid on the block, Google. Google is a service
combined with an advertising sales engine. It looks profitable, too.
But is it as profitable as selling code? Apparently Microsoft thinks
it might be. Besides, there is no $2 manufacturing cost.

Until now, Microsoft could sell code better than anyone, but it seems
the company would rather sell services: software as a service, ads,
search engine results--you name it. This is like the local storefront
that opens as a knife-sharpening business and is soon selling junk
jewelry, moose heads, toaster repair, and cheap chocolate. In the
meantime, the knife-sharpening business goes by the wayside. This is
what has happened to Microsoft, and Vista is the result.

I'm certainly not going to be a happy camper if I have to switch to a
Mac or Linux system full-time, yet that is exactly where this
scatterbrained company seems to be sending me.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

<yawn>

AirRaid wrote:
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp
>
> by John C. Dvorak
>
> Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply
> not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if
> we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained
> flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around
> the number of Macs in use....
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

DOUBLE <yawn> :>)

"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eSJV0D$JIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> <yawn>
>
> AirRaid wrote:
>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp
>>
>> by John C. Dvorak
>>
>> Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply
>> not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if
>> we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained
>> flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around
>> the number of Macs in use....
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

The article seems to be full of misleading conclusions and bad
assumptions.

"Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because"
This is not new and has been done before with other operating
systems.
while it is possible, there is little to support the authors
assumption.

"there are too many versions"
4 - XP Home, XP Pro, XP Tablet PC and XP Media Center
There are also 4 with windows Vista, Home Basic, Home Premium,
Business and Ultimate.
There are others in Windows XP and Windows Vista, but they are not
applicable to most users.

1. While a lower price is good for purchasers, it does little for
stockholders, and Microsoft is bound by law to do what it can to make
money for the stockholders.
Also obviously many "can live with" paying far more than $99 since
they already do.
Exactly how do you come up with $99?
Other than it is lower than the lowest cost for Windows now.
Those that want more features can get them but they also expect to pay
more.
Those the want the option to pay less for less features are also given
that choice.
There have been nearly countless pricing suggestions give by others
and most such as this ignore the fact it it the product owner who sets
the price taking many factors into account, such as cost, expected
market, profit for stockholders etc.
Your suggestion removes the choice many now have.

2. "Microsoft can scuttle the entire product"
Rediculous, the product is already out there and Windows Vista
performs well for many.
However if you feel that way there is absolutely you need to purchase
Windows Vista.
Simply stay with what you have or purchase a computer with the
operating system of your own choice.
But to suggest many now using and preferring Windows Vista lose that
choice simply because you do not like it is unacceptable.

3. "perhaps stolen from the next version of the Mac OS"
Perhaps this give a hint of your real agenda.
"Oh, and lower the price on this one"
The price of Windows has been about the same since Windows 95.
Adding for inflation, each version of Windows vista is cheaper than
the predecessors.

Regardless of what we want, simple capitalism is at work.
If the price is not to high, people will pay and there is no reason
for a seller to lower a price when people will pay.
I would love for all manufacturers, not just Microsoft, cut their
prices in half.
But it will probably not happen.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"AirRaid" <airraid22@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4399e307-3091-4217-a503-0e18b1aa36d4@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp
>
> by John C. Dvorak
>
> Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has
> simply
> not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves
> if
> we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained
> flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers
> around
> the number of Macs in use.
>
> How did this happen? And what's going to happen next? Does Microsoft
> have a Plan B? A number of possibilities come to mind, and these
> things must be considered by the company itself.
>
> So what went wrong with Vista in the first place? Let's start off
> with
> the elephant in the room. The product was overpriced from the
> outset.
> Why was it so expensive? What was special about it? All the cool and
> promised features of the original vision of Longhorn were gutted
> simply because it was beyond Microsoft's capability to implement
> those
> features.
>
> This failure to deliver what was promised--even after several delays
> in
> the product's release, by the way--did nothing to excite anyone. It
> made the company look bad. It directly resulted in a no-confidence
> vote that was manifested in a lackluster reception and low sales.
> Microsoft should have scrapped the project two years ago and instead
> patched XP until it could deliver something hot.
>
> To make things worse, there are too many versions. Exactly what is
> the
> point of that? Don't we all just want Vista Ultimate? The other
> versions seem like a way to maybe save money for some users who
> cannot
> afford to get the real thing. You can be certain this version glut
> results only in complaints about what each variation is missing.
>
> Microsoft's initial approach to marketing this turkey was obviously
> going to be to put it on just new machines, which would eventually
> saturate the market, but the PC manufacturers squawked and demanded
> the continuation of XP sales. Though there is some chatter about how
> Linux could use this lull in the Microsoft juggernaut to make some
> real headway onto the desktop, this is unlikely to happen. But
> Microsoft, with all its paranoid thinking, might have believed it to
> be possible. So XP is still with us and will be until deep into next
> year.
>
> I should mention here that much of this mess, I strongly believe, is
> due to Microsoft's recent obsession with Google and online search.
> Now
> Microsoft wants to be in the advertising business because Google is
> in
> the advertising business. Meanwhile, it can't do its real job.
>
>
> So what can Microsoft do to improve things with Vista? Here are
> three
> suggestions:
>
> 1. It can give up on the stupid variations and lower the price on
> the
> one good Vista, Vista Ultimate. I'd say $99 would be a price
> everyone
> can live with.
>
> 2. Microsoft can scuttle the entire product. Why not? Work on a
> whole
> new OS starting today with one team and work on SP3 for XP with
> another team to keep users on Windows.
>
> 3. Roll out Vista 2.0. Figure out some way to add some nifty
> features,
> perhaps stolen from the next version of the Mac OS. Bring in some
> outside designers if you have to. Oh, and lower the price on this
> one,
> too.
>
> I remember the old Bill Gates speeches of the mid-1980s when
> Microsoft, as he told it, "sold code." Selling code was what he did,
> and selling code is a terrific business once you are established.
> It's
> even better if you can monopolize a market with your code. It's easy
> money compared with most businesses. Halo 3 is code. It sold $175
> million worth of code on its first day of release. Once code is
> fixed
> in place and burned onto a CD-ROM or DVD, it has a manufacturing
> cost
> of a buck or two and sells for anywhere from $30 to $1,000 or more.
>
> But Microsoft sees a new kid on the block, Google. Google is a
> service
> combined with an advertising sales engine. It looks profitable, too.
> But is it as profitable as selling code? Apparently Microsoft thinks
> it might be. Besides, there is no $2 manufacturing cost.
>
> Until now, Microsoft could sell code better than anyone, but it
> seems
> the company would rather sell services: software as a service, ads,
> search engine results--you name it. This is like the local
> storefront
> that opens as a knife-sharpening business and is soon selling junk
> jewelry, moose heads, toaster repair, and cheap chocolate. In the
> meantime, the knife-sharpening business goes by the wayside. This is
> what has happened to Microsoft, and Vista is the result.
>
> I'm certainly not going to be a happy camper if I have to switch to
> a
> Mac or Linux system full-time, yet that is exactly where this
> scatterbrained company seems to be sending me.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch


"AirRaid" <airraid22@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4399e307-3091-4217-a503-0e18b1aa36d4@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp
>
>
> Microsoft's initial approach to marketing this turkey was obviously
> going to be to put it on just new machines, which would eventually
> saturate the market, but the PC manufacturers squawked and demanded
> the continuation of XP sales. Though there is some chatter about how
> Linux could use this lull in the Microsoft juggernaut to make some
> real headway onto the desktop, this is unlikely to happen. But
> Microsoft, with all its paranoid thinking, might have believed it to
> be possible. So XP is still with us and will be until deep into next
> year.
>


Here in the UK, you cannot buy a PC with anything but Vista installed. And
the latest Dell TV advert recommends Vista Home Premium.
You cannot go into a branch of PC World, Staples etc and buy XP, you can
only buy Vista.
Some online stores are selling OEM XP discs, at about £5.00 cheaper than the
equivalent Vista version. There are no XP retail discs available to buy
anywhere.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Brian W wrote:

>
> Here in the UK, you cannot buy a PC with anything but Vista installed.
> And the latest Dell TV advert recommends Vista Home Premium.
> You cannot go into a branch of PC World, Staples etc and buy XP, you can
> only buy Vista.
> Some online stores are selling OEM XP discs, at about £5.00 cheaper than
> the equivalent Vista version. There are no XP retail discs available to
> buy anywhere.
>


What do you expect if you go to PC World or Staples ?
Most of their customers don't even know there is a difference.

If you go to a computer shop that has a clue, there is no problem buying
XP on non-laptops. In fact some computer shops here in Cambridge refuse
to sell Vista at all.

It IS difficult to by laptops with XP though. My local computer shop
says that the manufacturers won't supply them because the latest
machines don't have drivers for XP any more.
You can still buy XP laptops from Dell online though.


Regards
JohnT
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

In article <%Ce%i.16637$ib1.13899@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
brian.wescombeSODOFF@ntlSPAMworld.com says...
> Here in the UK, you cannot buy a PC with anything but Vista installed.

<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-R40-LWD-T2050-
Laptop/dp/B000KN9GBG/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1195211024
&sr=1-10>

> And
> the latest Dell TV advert recommends Vista Home Premium.
> You cannot go into a branch of PC World, Staples etc and buy XP, you can
> only buy Vista.
> Some online stores are selling OEM XP discs, at about £5.00 cheaper than the
> equivalent Vista version. There are no XP retail discs available to buy
> anywhere.

<http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias=aps&field-
keywords=windows+xp&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go>

You must not have looked very hard...
--
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those that understand binary and those that don't." - Unknown
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

John Taylor wrote:

> Brian W wrote:
>
>>
>> Here in the UK, you cannot buy a PC with anything but Vista installed.
>> And the latest Dell TV advert recommends Vista Home Premium.
>> You cannot go into a branch of PC World, Staples etc and buy XP, you can
>> only buy Vista.
>> Some online stores are selling OEM XP discs, at about £5.00 cheaper than
>> the equivalent Vista version. There are no XP retail discs available to
>> buy anywhere.
>>

>
> What do you expect if you go to PC World or Staples ?
> Most of their customers don't even know there is a difference.
>
> If you go to a computer shop that has a clue, there is no problem buying
> XP on non-laptops. In fact some computer shops here in Cambridge refuse
> to sell Vista at all.
>
> It IS difficult to by laptops with XP though. My local computer shop
> says that the manufacturers won't supply them because the latest
> machines don't have drivers for XP any more.
> You can still buy XP laptops from Dell online though.
>
>
> Regards
> JohnT


Misco.co.uk is my main source, just after Vista launch it was hard to get a
PC with XP on it, but now you can get all the big name laptops/desktops
with XP on board. Make sure you get XP Pro for your users, trust me, thars
a storm a commin (blimey, I went all outback American then).

Something worth noting, the default sort for items in misco is 'Most
Popular'. And this is the list for OS's,

1. MS Windows server 2003 enterprise
2. SQL svr standard
3. MS Windows XP Pro upgrade.
4. MS Windows XP Pro (full version)
5. MS OEM Windows Vista home premium (32bit)
6. Exchange srv 2007
7. Windows vista ultimate

So MS servers are out selling MS clients and MS XP Pro is still out selling
MS Vista.

I would agree if someone suggested those 'Most Popular' lists are sometimes
sponsored, but if that was true in this case MS would have sponsored them
such that Vista was at least second.

I think it is very clear that the vast majority of users are not bothering
at all with a change of client OS, but just in case there are comms
problems later on, some are moving to XP Pro while they still can.

This list is boxed software only, so doesn't reflect pre-installed OS's,
except it could be argued that this gives a better insight into peoples
thinking. If they are holding back on Vista in boxes, then just as likely
are holding back from Vista pre-installed.


If I was Mr Microsoft, I would go out and buy a mega yaught (I wonder if you
get Tesco points?). Then after that I would dump Vista into the nearest
skip, put everything into make XP Pro a super safe super stable OS, then go
on a round the world cruise armed with my fishing rod and a pint or two of
maggots, do you think I could catch a Whale using a 8mm line? Oh and I
would have Ballmer stuffed and hung on the wall in reception, that would
keep cold call sales reps out.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

You forgot Vista Enterprise. :)
It doesn't show on the list with versions on the Microsoft website, but I
do have the official disc in front of me here.
It was also the only version offered for my organisation (a public
college) through the company that organises and distributes software for
us.






"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in
news:Or99rqBKIHA.5224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> "there are too many versions"
> 4 - XP Home, XP Pro, XP Tablet PC and XP Media Center
> There are also 4 with windows Vista, Home Basic, Home Premium,
> Business and Ultimate.
> There are others in Windows XP and Windows Vista, but they are not
> applicable to most users.
>




--
*Reply to newsgroup please.
*Your mileage may vary.
*Spelling/Grammar errors free of charge.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Actually I did not just like I did not list the Windows XP version.
Enterprise is a good option for many organizations.
I also did not list Vista Started that is intended for Emerging
markets and is simply not available to most.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Ace" <ace_rules_bbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99EA9A965E020FearIsTheMindKiller@207.46.248.16...
> You forgot Vista Enterprise. :)
> It doesn't show on the list with versions on the Microsoft website,
> but I
> do have the official disc in front of me here.
> It was also the only version offered for my organisation (a public
> college) through the company that organises and distributes software
> for
> us.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

"says that the manufacturers won't supply them"
What manufacturers have they trued?
Which have they not tried?
Dell, Toshiba and possibly others continue to sell computers with
Windows XP:
http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=ca&l=en&cs=&k=windows+xp&cat=all

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"John Taylor" <john@example.com> wrote in message
news:9Oe%i.24445$6v.1457@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> Brian W wrote:
>
>>
>> Here in the UK, you cannot buy a PC with anything but Vista
>> installed. And the latest Dell TV advert recommends Vista Home
>> Premium.
>> You cannot go into a branch of PC World, Staples etc and buy XP,
>> you can only buy Vista.
>> Some online stores are selling OEM XP discs, at about £5.00 cheaper
>> than the equivalent Vista version. There are no XP retail discs
>> available to buy anywhere.
>>

>
> What do you expect if you go to PC World or Staples ?
> Most of their customers don't even know there is a difference.
>
> If you go to a computer shop that has a clue, there is no problem
> buying XP on non-laptops. In fact some computer shops here in
> Cambridge refuse to sell Vista at all.
>
> It IS difficult to by laptops with XP though. My local computer shop
> says that the manufacturers won't supply them because the latest
> machines don't have drivers for XP any more.
> You can still buy XP laptops from Dell online though.
>
>
> Regards
> JohnT
>
>
>
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Are you able to contribute anything to help the OP?
Apparently not.
Or are you unable to help but feel a need to post so your only
contribution is an attack?
Apparently so.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ehcrj3df8es43ier4762gf9hs60hqeprr3@4ax.com...
> Are all you "MVP" retards top-posting idiots?
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

chrisv wrote:
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] top-posted:
>
>> "says that the manufacturers won't supply them"
>> What manufacturers have they trued?
>> Which have they not tried?
>> Dell, Toshiba and possibly others continue to sell computers with
>> Windows XP:
>> http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=ca&l=en&cs=&k=windows+xp&cat=all

>
> Are all you "MVP" retards top-posting idiots?
>


Most of them and they also use a delimiter for their signature so that
when you use a real newsreader, it nukes everything but the MVP's
useless post.

Alias
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

On 2007-11-16, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] top-posted:
>
>>"says that the manufacturers won't supply them"
>>What manufacturers have they trued?
>>Which have they not tried?
>>Dell, Toshiba and possibly others continue to sell computers with
>>Windows XP:
>>http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=ca&l=en&cs=&k=windows+xp&cat=all

>
> Are all you "MVP" retards top-posting idiots?


Yes. Their unspeakably crappy newsreader puts the cursor there, and they're too
dumb (or lazy) to move it. Presumably they also **** in their pants because
that's where their arseholes are.


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

No, alias, that is your newsreader deleting whatever you do not see.
"it nukes everything"
"it" being your newsreader.
Change your settings or choose to live with what your newsreader does.
However I expect you will keep blaming anything Microsoft because that
is what you feel the need to do regardless of your own choices.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Alias" <alias@aliasmail.com> wrote in message
news:fhkfkd$dbm$1@aioe.org...
> Most of them and they also use a delimiter for their signature so
> that when you use a real newsreader, it nukes everything but the
> MVP's useless post.
>
> Alias
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

Completely idiotic top-posting with quoting as a signature (how low life
are these MVPs to act so retarded?) repaired to be readable

>"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:ehcrj3df8es43ier4762gf9hs60hqeprr3@4ax.com...
>> Are all you "MVP" retards top-posting idiots?


Apparently they are

> Are you able to contribute anything to help the OP?


Who knows? You nimwits destroy all context by quoting as a signature

> Apparently not.


Apparently or not, nobody knows

> Or are you unable to help but feel a need to post so your only
> contribution is an attack?


Well, you (as a MVP naturally) are unable to read. Figures, after all you
are a MVP. Those are not expected to have any intelligence worth mentioning

If you /were/ able to understand simple sentences with very small words, you
could have figured that the OP did not ask a question to a nagging problem
he has with Vista

> Apparently so.
>


Well, you are apparently a MVP. To act any dumber, you need to be a apple
fanboi
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
Form follows malfunction.
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> No, alias, that is your newsreader deleting whatever you do not see.
> "it nukes everything"
> "it" being your newsreader.
> Change your settings or choose to live with what your newsreader does.
> However I expect you will keep blaming anything Microsoft because that
> is what you feel the need to do regardless of your own choices.
>


If you would bottom post, no one would have a problem with your posts.
So, it isn't MS to blame but YOU and other top posters who have no
consideration for others. I believe that Windows Fail can be configured
to bottom post.

Alias
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

If you do not like it, it is up to you to change.
Make the change if you must, but it is not your place to insist others
change to suit your preferences.
So typical of you, to criticize when there is nothing better you can
do.

There in no requirement either way in these newsgroups for top or
bottom posting.
Both are fully acceptable and appropriate.
It is noted that it is usually the Microsoft critics that have a
problem with posting methods.
The rest are usually more flexible and go with the conditions.
However inflexibility is somewhat normal for some of the critics such
as yourself.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Alias" <alias@aliasmail.com> wrote in message
news:fhkgeh$f1i$2@aioe.org...
> If you would bottom post, no one would have a problem with your
> posts. So, it isn't MS to blame but YOU and other top posters who
> have no consideration for others. I believe that Windows Fail can be
> configured to bottom post.
>
> Alias
 
Re: The Vista Death Watch

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> If you do not like it, it is up to you to change.
> Make the change if you must, but it is not your place to insist others
> change to suit your preferences.
> So typical of you, to criticize when there is nothing better you can do.
>
> There in no requirement either way in these newsgroups for top or bottom
> posting.
> Both are fully acceptable and appropriate.
> It is noted that it is usually the Microsoft critics that have a problem
> with posting methods.
> The rest are usually more flexible and go with the conditions.
> However inflexibility is somewhat normal for some of the critics such as
> yourself.
>


Translation: Jupiter doesn't have any respect for others and will
continue to top post regardless of how it affects the posts. Bottom
posting is the only acceptable and logical way to post, your inability
to understand that notwithstanding.

BTW, I bottom posted back when I used OE with 95 and loved all MS
products so your theory is false.

Alias
 
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