Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower now

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Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower now

Hibernation is usually disabled with that much ram aboard.

"Juergen Kluth" <jkluth@t-onlinr.de> wrote in message
news:uL8v%23U2VIHA.4448@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> HI,
> putting in additional mem may have caused your Bios to set the "new"
> config to default values (slower speeds)
>
> like the other told : if you have hibernating (same amount of ram size),
> it may eat your system drive (c:), where it sits,
> that for , your swapfile may now run on a different (may be fragmented)
> drive.
>
> regards
>
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbmail.dk> wrote in message
news:epytrh3VIHA.4448@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Oh - this is much too old that I can possibly remember - attached here,
> you can check with the Windows System Recommendations for my setup which
> runs on '2GB'.


I am intimately familiar with that dialog box.

As I said, it is a generic recommendation and I've never seen anyone backing
it up. I've asked some microsofties about this, and no answer there either.

I would be very surprised if you could find a benchmark showing an increase
in performance by increasing the pagefile size from half a GB to 6GB on a
4GB memory system...

This question has been discussed over at the sysinternals.com forums without
any conclusion there either. (other than "make sure you don't run out of
virtual memory and you'll be fine")

But think about this for a while. What are you trying to gain by increasing
the size of the pagefile? System stability? (You'd think there would be a
warning then) Increase in performance? (How? By leaving the system with more
opportunity to use the disk instead of physical memory?)

I know you need a pagefile on the system drive in order to generate a memory
dump. You need the pagefile to support memory mapped files, but these are
limited to 2GB (assuming 32-bit Windows) anyway and 2GB memory mapped files
aren't all that common.

> I do vaguely remember something about the claim you make, but this goes
> all the way back to Windows 3.11 and the 'plus 11MB' doesn't make sense
> since


The +11MB recommendation was the NT 3.1 - 4.0 recommendation IIRC. I do not
recall the 16 bit recommendation, and it has no bearing here since there is
a big difference between swapping (win 3.11) and paging (NT 3.1 +).

+11MB or 1.5X the size of physical memory doesn't really matter. Both
settings will work just fine in most situations given the amount of system
memory we're talking about here... They're both overkill. (but disk space is
cheap, and it doesn't hurt... Except for those of us using SCSI drives)

> matter, but it is (and has been) firmly supported by almost everyone plus
> the Devil and his Grandma since as long as I can remember, Windowswize.


I have seen almost everyone plus the devil and his grandma suggest regular
re-installation cycles of Windows XP, but that does not make them right.
Most people, when it comes to computers, are simply parroting old "truths".
There are many Windows myths out there, and this is most likely one of them.
I doubt the devil and his grandma can come up with any reasonable
explanation as to why they made their recommendation.

--
Rune
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbmail.dk> wrote in message
news:epytrh3VIHA.4448@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Oh - this is much too old that I can possibly remember - attached here,
> you can check with the Windows System Recommendations for my setup which
> runs on '2GB'.


I am intimately familiar with that dialog box.

As I said, it is a generic recommendation and I've never seen anyone backing
it up. I've asked some microsofties about this, and no answer there either.

I would be very surprised if you could find a benchmark showing an increase
in performance by increasing the pagefile size from half a GB to 6GB on a
4GB memory system...

This question has been discussed over at the sysinternals.com forums without
any conclusion there either. (other than "make sure you don't run out of
virtual memory and you'll be fine")

But think about this for a while. What are you trying to gain by increasing
the size of the pagefile? System stability? (You'd think there would be a
warning then) Increase in performance? (How? By leaving the system with more
opportunity to use the disk instead of physical memory?)

I know you need a pagefile on the system drive in order to generate a memory
dump. You need the pagefile to support memory mapped files, but these are
limited to 2GB (assuming 32-bit Windows) anyway and 2GB memory mapped files
aren't all that common.

> I do vaguely remember something about the claim you make, but this goes
> all the way back to Windows 3.11 and the 'plus 11MB' doesn't make sense
> since


The +11MB recommendation was the NT 3.1 - 4.0 recommendation IIRC. I do not
recall the 16 bit recommendation, and it has no bearing here since there is
a big difference between swapping (win 3.11) and paging (NT 3.1 +).

+11MB or 1.5X the size of physical memory doesn't really matter. Both
settings will work just fine in most situations given the amount of system
memory we're talking about here... They're both overkill. (but disk space is
cheap, and it doesn't hurt... Except for those of us using SCSI drives)

> matter, but it is (and has been) firmly supported by almost everyone plus
> the Devil and his Grandma since as long as I can remember, Windowswize.


I have seen almost everyone plus the devil and his grandma suggest regular
re-installation cycles of Windows XP, but that does not make them right.
Most people, when it comes to computers, are simply parroting old "truths".
There are many Windows myths out there, and this is most likely one of them.
I doubt the devil and his grandma can come up with any reasonable
explanation as to why they made their recommendation.

--
Rune
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

I agree that there is no need to increase the page file with large amounts
of ram. In fact the usage of the page file should decrease with the
increase in memory. I let the system set the page file parameters as it
likes because I just don't think it improves anything for me to set it.

"Rune Moberg" <NOruneSPAM@runesbike.com> wrote in message
news:uFkj6z3VIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbmail.dk> wrote in message
> news:epytrh3VIHA.4448@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Oh - this is much too old that I can possibly remember - attached here,
>> you can check with the Windows System Recommendations for my setup which
>> runs on '2GB'.

>
> I am intimately familiar with that dialog box.
>
> As I said, it is a generic recommendation and I've never seen anyone
> backing it up. I've asked some microsofties about this, and no answer
> there either.
>
> I would be very surprised if you could find a benchmark showing an
> increase in performance by increasing the pagefile size from half a GB to
> 6GB on a 4GB memory system...
>
> This question has been discussed over at the sysinternals.com forums
> without any conclusion there either. (other than "make sure you don't run
> out of virtual memory and you'll be fine")
>
> But think about this for a while. What are you trying to gain by
> increasing the size of the pagefile? System stability? (You'd think there
> would be a warning then) Increase in performance? (How? By leaving the
> system with more opportunity to use the disk instead of physical memory?)
>
> I know you need a pagefile on the system drive in order to generate a
> memory dump. You need the pagefile to support memory mapped files, but
> these are limited to 2GB (assuming 32-bit Windows) anyway and 2GB memory
> mapped files aren't all that common.
>
>> I do vaguely remember something about the claim you make, but this goes
>> all the way back to Windows 3.11 and the 'plus 11MB' doesn't make sense
>> since

>
> The +11MB recommendation was the NT 3.1 - 4.0 recommendation IIRC. I do
> not recall the 16 bit recommendation, and it has no bearing here since
> there is a big difference between swapping (win 3.11) and paging (NT 3.1
> +).
>
> +11MB or 1.5X the size of physical memory doesn't really matter. Both
> settings will work just fine in most situations given the amount of system
> memory we're talking about here... They're both overkill. (but disk space
> is cheap, and it doesn't hurt... Except for those of us using SCSI drives)
>
>> matter, but it is (and has been) firmly supported by almost everyone plus
>> the Devil and his Grandma since as long as I can remember, Windowswize.

>
> I have seen almost everyone plus the devil and his grandma suggest regular
> re-installation cycles of Windows XP, but that does not make them right.
> Most people, when it comes to computers, are simply parroting old
> "truths". There are many Windows myths out there, and this is most likely
> one of them. I doubt the devil and his grandma can come up with any
> reasonable explanation as to why they made their recommendation.
>
> --
> Rune
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slowern

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slowern

All you have to do is go to www.microsoft.com, type in 'page
file size' and you will be presented with numerous articles
to peruse.

KB889654 has this in it:

Important Supportability Information: This article is
specifically for computers that do not need kernel mode or
full memory dump analysis. For business-critical servers
where business processes require to server to capture
physical memory dumps for analysis, the traditional model of
the page file should be at least the size of physical ram
plus 1 MB, or 1.5 times the default physical RAM. This makes
sure that the free disk space of the operating system
partition is large enough to hold the OS, hotfixes,
installed applications, installed services, a dump file, and
the page file. On a server that has 32 GB of memory, drive C
may have to be at least 86 GB to 90 GB. This is 32 GB for
memory dump, 48 GB for the page file (1.5 times the physical
memory), 4 GB for the operating system, and 2 to 4 GB for
the applications, the installed services, the temp files,
and so on. Remember that a driver or kernel mode service
leak could consume all free physical RAM. Therefore, a
Windows Server 2003 x64 SP1-based server in 64-bit mode with
32GB of RAM could have a 32 GB kernel memory dump file,
where you would expect only a 1 to 2 GB dump file in 32-bit
mode. This behavior occurs because of the greatly increased
memory pools. For more information, click the following
article number to view the article in the Microsoft
Knowledge Base: 294418
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/294418/) Comparison of
32-bit and 64-bit memory architecture for 64-bit editions of
Windows XP and Windows Server 2003

And that's directly from the genuine, official Microsoft web
site. what more can you ask for?


Rune Moberg wrote:
> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbmail.dk> wrote in message
> news:epytrh3VIHA.4448@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Oh - this is much too old that I can possibly remember - attached
>> here, you can check with the Windows System Recommendations for my
>> setup which runs on '2GB'.

>
> I am intimately familiar with that dialog box.
>
> As I said, it is a generic recommendation and I've never seen anyone
> backing it up. I've asked some microsofties about this, and no answer
> there either.
>
> I would be very surprised if you could find a benchmark showing an
> increase in performance by increasing the pagefile size from half a GB
> to 6GB on a 4GB memory system...
>
> This question has been discussed over at the sysinternals.com forums
> without any conclusion there either. (other than "make sure you don't
> run out of virtual memory and you'll be fine")
>
> But think about this for a while. What are you trying to gain by
> increasing the size of the pagefile? System stability? (You'd think
> there would be a warning then) Increase in performance? (How? By leaving
> the system with more opportunity to use the disk instead of physical
> memory?)
>
> I know you need a pagefile on the system drive in order to generate a
> memory dump. You need the pagefile to support memory mapped files, but
> these are limited to 2GB (assuming 32-bit Windows) anyway and 2GB memory
> mapped files aren't all that common.
>
>> I do vaguely remember something about the claim you make, but this
>> goes all the way back to Windows 3.11 and the 'plus 11MB' doesn't make
>> sense since

>
> The +11MB recommendation was the NT 3.1 - 4.0 recommendation IIRC. I do
> not recall the 16 bit recommendation, and it has no bearing here since
> there is a big difference between swapping (win 3.11) and paging (NT 3.1
> +).
>
> +11MB or 1.5X the size of physical memory doesn't really matter. Both
> settings will work just fine in most situations given the amount of
> system memory we're talking about here... They're both overkill. (but
> disk space is cheap, and it doesn't hurt... Except for those of us using
> SCSI drives)
>
>> matter, but it is (and has been) firmly supported by almost everyone
>> plus the Devil and his Grandma since as long as I can remember,
>> Windowswize.

>
> I have seen almost everyone plus the devil and his grandma suggest
> regular re-installation cycles of Windows XP, but that does not make
> them right. Most people, when it comes to computers, are simply
> parroting old "truths". There are many Windows myths out there, and this
> is most likely one of them. I doubt the devil and his grandma can come
> up with any reasonable explanation as to why they made their
> recommendation.
>
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

"Theo" <theo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:OOGpHY4VIHA.4932@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> And that's directly from the genuine, official Microsoft web site. what
> more can you ask for?


Sigh. There is a reason I wrote "I know you need a pagefile on the system
drive in order to generate a memory
dump.". But on a home user's system that is fairly stable, you do not bother
investigating a BSOD unless it happens frequently (once a month or more
frequent) and then you can increase the page file size if you so desire.
Lately, you can't do anything with the memory dump anyway, because many
driver writers do not care that they trigger BSODs. (i.e. no place to submit
the dumps) On a server: Yes, go ahead, make sure you capture the dump. On a
client: Don't bother.

Note that the same article then goes on to explain how to monitor page file
activity in order to determine its optimal setting. (i.e. not allocate more
than you actually use)

--
Rune
 
RE: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower now

Some additional thoughts on this problem.

I've had a very similar problem with Vista 64. Brief history:

Have been running Vista Ultimate 32 for 6 months..system configuration:
Intel dual core on Intel DG965 series motherboard, 4G memory (1GX4). Vista
performance relatively crisp. Boot time from initial progress bar to logon
prompt approximately 20 seconds.

Installed Vista 64 on an alternate partition. Performance very sluggish.
Boot time over 3 minutes. Sound "stutters". Interestingly, performance
numbers in "Windows Experience" index almost identical to Vista 32; no
obvious problems. Free space on boot disk 40G. So, after reading this post, I
deinstalled 2G of memory, and performance dramatically improved (boot time
now 20 seconds).

A similar problem running the (Vista?) shell used in the Norton Ghost 12
boot CD in the past was rectified via BIOS upgrades (however, that problem
did not affect normal Vista performance). And the Norton shell boot at this
time is still relatively short. At least in my situation, this still makes me
suspect some type of unique interaction between Vista and motherboard at
memory sizes 4G and above. Will also be working with motherboard manufacturer.

I hope this sheds a little additional light.

"kungfumonkeyman" wrote:

> When I first installed Ultimate edition I was only running 2 gigs so I went
> and purchased 2 x 2gig sticks and installed them. My computer has been
> running much slower than before so I thought that maybe one of the ram slots
> on my mobo was bad or that one of the new sticks was bad but I am reading all
> 6 gigs and I even swapped out all my chips in different slots and it seems
> that when I am running with just 2 gigs everything is fine, no matter if I am
> running with 2 x 1gig or with just 1 x 2gig. It is getting pretty annoying
> and was hoping that someone might have some advice on anything that I could
> try. Thank You
 
RE: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

RE: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Update. No information on manufacturer website that I could find. However, I
experimented with several older BIOS levels (I was on most current), and a
level from April 2007 resolved the issue. Shows how obscure the source of a
problem can sometimes be, I guess.

kfmm, hope this helps in some way.

"Walt G" wrote:

> Some additional thoughts on this problem.
>
> I've had a very similar problem with Vista 64. Brief history:
>
> Have been running Vista Ultimate 32 for 6 months..system configuration:
> Intel dual core on Intel DG965 series motherboard, 4G memory (1GX4). Vista
> performance relatively crisp. Boot time from initial progress bar to logon
> prompt approximately 20 seconds.
>
> Installed Vista 64 on an alternate partition. Performance very sluggish.
> Boot time over 3 minutes. Sound "stutters". Interestingly, performance
> numbers in "Windows Experience" index almost identical to Vista 32; no
> obvious problems. Free space on boot disk 40G. So, after reading this post, I
> deinstalled 2G of memory, and performance dramatically improved (boot time
> now 20 seconds).
>
> A similar problem running the (Vista?) shell used in the Norton Ghost 12
> boot CD in the past was rectified via BIOS upgrades (however, that problem
> did not affect normal Vista performance). And the Norton shell boot at this
> time is still relatively short. At least in my situation, this still makes me
> suspect some type of unique interaction between Vista and motherboard at
> memory sizes 4G and above. Will also be working with motherboard manufacturer.
>
> I hope this sheds a little additional light.
>
> "kungfumonkeyman" wrote:
>
> > When I first installed Ultimate edition I was only running 2 gigs so I went
> > and purchased 2 x 2gig sticks and installed them. My computer has been
> > running much slower than before so I thought that maybe one of the ram slots
> > on my mobo was bad or that one of the new sticks was bad but I am reading all
> > 6 gigs and I even swapped out all my chips in different slots and it seems
> > that when I am running with just 2 gigs everything is fine, no matter if I am
> > running with 2 x 1gig or with just 1 x 2gig. It is getting pretty annoying
> > and was hoping that someone might have some advice on anything that I could
> > try. Thank You
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower now



"Walt G" <WaltG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3B88B075-6E39-4C50-91BA-0997BFC8BA04@microsoft.com...
> Update. No information on manufacturer website that I could find. However, I
> experimented with several older BIOS levels (I was on most current), and a
> level from April 2007 resolved the issue. Shows how obscure the source of a
> problem can sometimes be, I guess.


What revision was that? I have an Intel DG965WH with 1719 and going over 4 GB
does slow it down. All 8 GB tests good.

Tom Lake
 
Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Re: Installed 6 gigs of Ram in Vista Ultimate x64 and its slower n

Tom,

I went back from 1719 to 1669 and the problem disappeared. BTW, am also
running the DG965WH, with 667 speed memory. However, here is another twist
discovered yesterday.

I was planning on installing a graphics card (EVGA Nvidia 8400 GS), and
reading the BIOS release notes, noted that level 1676 fixed a compatibility
problem with PCI-e graphics cards with 4G RAM installed on the system. So I
decided to try 1719 again, this time with the graphics card installed. Vista
64 runs crisply in that configuration. It would appear that there is still
something amiss in the 965 board memory management, but at least it has
disappeared for now. I suspect the change in 1676 has something to do with
it, but that is just a guess.

Walt

"Tom Lake" wrote:

>
>
> "Walt G" <WaltG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:3B88B075-6E39-4C50-91BA-0997BFC8BA04@microsoft.com...
> > Update. No information on manufacturer website that I could find. However, I
> > experimented with several older BIOS levels (I was on most current), and a
> > level from April 2007 resolved the issue. Shows how obscure the source of a
> > problem can sometimes be, I guess.

>
> What revision was that? I have an Intel DG965WH with 1719 and going over 4 GB
> does slow it down. All 8 GB tests good.
>
> Tom Lake
>
 
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