Computer Failure

  • Thread starter Thread starter BAP
  • Start date Start date
Re: Computer Failure

Please post any relevant points in my response that indicate such as to the textual
content provided by the poster I responded to.

--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375


"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e1GAe4odIHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> So you're saying you no longer have to register/activate the XP OS?
>
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
> news:%23Md4FcldIHA.5416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> | <letterman@invalid.com> wrote in message
> | news:2kaqr31m82ubqlbmhrph3rruuvqaaitecl@4ax.com...
> | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
> | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> | >
> | >>For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly started
> having
> | >>problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary and a
> secondary
> | >>Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from them.
> The
> | >>prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good stored
> Data.
> | >>The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many family
> photos.
> | >>Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another machine
> and
> | >>get the info that I would like to save?
> | >>Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
> | >>Thank you!
> | >
> | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some of the
> | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for Win98. I'd
> | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had them in a
> | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium II or
> | > III.
> | >
> | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in 1999.
> | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another Pentium
> | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in a
> | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install CD to
> | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if changed),
> | > etc....
> |
> | That's what happens when major components are changed and the harware is
> no longer
> | enumerated in the registry. The last thing I would do is reinstall all of
> the
> | drivers again without ripping out the ones used in the previous machine,
> even better
> | I'd yank the entire Enum key and let it rebuild.
> |
> | >
> | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or anything
> | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either have to
> | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to get an
> | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I won't
> | > even touch XP or Vista.
> |
> | Says who and since when? All I know is they never passed the word on to
> me, most
> | likely because they knew better than to try to feed me that type eltoro
> caca. I've
> | repaired, upgraded and rebuilt many machines that appeared to be dead
> without using
> | identical components. For the simple fact that any component(s) may fail
> at any time
> | for various reasons, does not in any way mean that the user has lost all
> of their
> | data. The only way their data would be a total lost to the wind is if the
> hard drive
> | itself had a catastrophic failure due to wear and tear, another component
> failure
> | took it out with it or a number of many other causes.
> |
> | One issue that is present is if an OEM machines motherboard bites the
> big one and
> | it has to be replaced. Many OEM machines lock the OS to the BIOS of the
> motherboard
> | and although there are ways to circumvent around that if a different
> motherboard is
> | installed, it does not always work and an identical one must be installed.
> Again,
> | that in no way would be a loss of all data if the drive didn't take a hit.
> Can you
> | say Repair Install?
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | --
> |
> |
> | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
> | Conflicts start where information lacks.
> | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
> |
> | Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> | How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
> |
> |
>
>
 
Re: Computer Failure



"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
news:%233q2A2pdIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| Please post any relevant points in my response that indicate such as to
the textual
| content provided by the poster I responded to.
|
| --
|
|
| Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| Conflicts start where information lacks.
| http://basconotw.mvps.org/
|
| Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
| How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Sure, perhaps we can re-hash some issues which appeared as reasoning for
both your responses.
INLINE

|
|
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:e1GAe4odIHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > So you're saying you no longer have to register/activate the XP OS?
| >
| > --
| >
| > MEB
| > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > _________
| >
| >
| > "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
| > news:%23Md4FcldIHA.5416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | <letterman@invalid.com> wrote in message
| > | news:2kaqr31m82ubqlbmhrph3rruuvqaaitecl@4ax.com...
| > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
| > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
| > | >
| > | >>For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly started
| > having
| > | >>problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary and a
| > secondary
| > | >>Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from
them.
| > The
| > | >>prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good
stored
| > Data.
| > | >>The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many family
| > photos.
| > | >>Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
machine
| > and
| > | >>get the info that I would like to save?
| > | >>Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
| > | >>Thank you!
| > | >
| > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some of
the
| > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for Win98.
I'd
| > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had them in
a
| > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium II
or
| > | > III.

Here is a logical idea,, if the BIOS translations are markedly different,
there MAY be some potential corruption.
And placing the disk in a newer system WOULD couse issues unless precautions
were taken.

| > | >
| > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
1999.
| > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
Pentium
| > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in a
| > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install CD
to
| > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
changed),
| > | > etc....
| > |
| > | That's what happens when major components are changed and the
harware is
| > no longer
| > | enumerated in the registry. The last thing I would do is reinstall
all of
| > the
| > | drivers again without ripping out the ones used in the previous
machine,
| > even better
| > | I'd yank the entire Enum key and let it rebuild.

And that woks, but this is generally the time to recommend [particularly if
the OS is 4 or more years old{installed time}] a re-install to dump all
those old applications likely not used anymore, and cleanup the system with
a clean install, or at least that's generally what I try to advise..

| > |
| > | >
| > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
anything
| > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either have
to
| > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to get
an
| > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
won't
| > | > even touch XP or Vista.

Here I believe the issue was the ability to move 9X from any machine to any
other machine, or completely re-install WITHOUT needing to re-register or
get re-authorized. You and I realize there will always be ways to recover
data, but not necessarily the ability to use one of the newer OSs LEGALLY
should something require re-authorization after *Service Life*. Or is there
a general mis-conception by the general users related thereto?

| > |
| > | Says who and since when? All I know is they never passed the word
on to
| > me, most
| > | likely because they knew better than to try to feed me that type
eltoro
| > caca. I've
| > | repaired, upgraded and rebuilt many machines that appeared to be dead
| > without using
| > | identical components. For the simple fact that any component(s) may
fail
| > at any time
| > | for various reasons, does not in any way mean that the user has lost
all
| > of their
| > | data. The only way their data would be a total lost to the wind is if
the
| > hard drive
| > | itself had a catastrophic failure due to wear and tear, another
component
| > failure
| > | took it out with it or a number of many other causes.
| > |
| > | One issue that is present is if an OEM machines motherboard bites
the
| > big one and
| > | it has to be replaced. Many OEM machines lock the OS to the BIOS of
the
| > motherboard
| > | and although there are ways to circumvent around that if a different
| > motherboard is
| > | installed, it does not always work and an identical one must be
installed.
| > Again,
| > | that in no way would be a loss of all data if the drive didn't take a
hit.
| > Can you
| > | say Repair Install?
| > |

The repair install for XP would potentially work for what, only a set
number of key elements replaced, beyond that and you will be required to get
an authorization/activation, which, after support ends, ...... then what?
OR, as I questioned, did Microsoft remove that requirement and the related
*kill* in-built within XP and VISTA? {and yes I know there are questionable
non-authorized methods available to achieve this]

Now if what you're referring to is only data recovery, then of course you
could use your *supported* VISTA or Windows7 [after support end] to retrieve
the data, or an NTFS recovery tool [if NTFS had been used], that would be a
*given*. There are always tools around to recover data. Moreover, as you
indicate, replacing hard drives ONLY would not cause too many issues, though
that MAY require a re-install if, say a large disk partitioned with 9X,
2000, and XP, were to have the WRONG partition corrupted/with data loss..

Anyway, as usual, a thought was placed by one who continues to use 9X with
the thoughts related [perhaps uninformed] regarding potential issues in
XP/VISTA as comparison.

What was missing, was the registry key in 9X to remove, and a related XP
registry entry or entries which accomplished that same task,, e.g., the
transport/tranfer ability of 2000, XP, and VISTA.

| > | --
| > |
| > |
| > | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| > | Conflicts start where information lacks.
| > | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
| > |
| > | Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
| > | How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uHrU9AsdIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
> news:%233q2A2pdIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> | Please post any relevant points in my response that indicate such as to
> the textual
> | content provided by the poster I responded to.
> |
> | --
> |
> |
> | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
> | Conflicts start where information lacks.
> | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
> |
> | Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> | How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
>
> Sure, perhaps we can re-hash some issues which appeared as reasoning for
> both your responses.
> INLINE
>
> |
> |
> | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> | news:e1GAe4odIHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> | > So you're saying you no longer have to register/activate the XP OS?
> | >
> | > --
> | >
> | > MEB
> | > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> | > _________
> | >
> | >
> | > "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
> | > news:%23Md4FcldIHA.5416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> | > | <letterman@invalid.com> wrote in message
> | > | news:2kaqr31m82ubqlbmhrph3rruuvqaaitecl@4ax.com...
> | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
> | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> | > | >
> | > | >>For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly started
> | > having
> | > | >>problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary and a
> | > secondary
> | > | >>Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from
> them.
> | > The
> | > | >>prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good
> stored
> | > Data.
> | > | >>The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many family
> | > photos.
> | > | >>Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
> machine
> | > and
> | > | >>get the info that I would like to save?
> | > | >>Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
> | > | >>Thank you!
> | > | >
> | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some of
> the
> | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for Win98.
> I'd
> | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had them in
> a
> | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium II
> or
> | > | > III.
>
> Here is a logical idea,, if the BIOS translations are markedly different,
> there MAY be some potential corruption.
> And placing the disk in a newer system WOULD couse issues unless precautions
> were taken.

The statement either above your response or below mine here to which it appears you
responded to, were not made by me.

>
> | > | >
> | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
> 1999.
> | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
> Pentium
> | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in a
> | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install CD
> to
> | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
> changed),
> | > | > etc....
> | > |
> | > | That's what happens when major components are changed and the
> harware is
> | > no longer
> | > | enumerated in the registry. The last thing I would do is reinstall
> all of
> | > the
> | > | drivers again without ripping out the ones used in the previous
> machine,
> | > even better
> | > | I'd yank the entire Enum key and let it rebuild.
>
> And that woks, but this is generally the time to recommend [particularly if
> the OS is 4 or more years old{installed time}] a re-install to dump all
> those old applications likely not used anymore, and cleanup the system with
> a clean install, or at least that's generally what I try to advise..

Now we got it, the statement above your response I did make and I won't disagree
with your mentioned method.

>
> | > |
> | > | >
> | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
> anything
> | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either have
> to
> | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to get
> an
> | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
> won't
> | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
>
> Here I believe the issue was the ability to move 9X from any machine to any
> other machine, or completely re-install WITHOUT needing to re-register or
> get re-authorized. You and I realize there will always be ways to recover
> data, but not necessarily the ability to use one of the newer OSs LEGALLY
> should something require re-authorization after *Service Life*. Or is there
> a general mis-conception by the general users related thereto?

The statement above yours is not mine, and I disagree with your response only for
the fact I believe we read into the responders reply differently. I see it as if the
XP machine flew the coop, your data went with it unless an identical replacement mobo
was installed or you paid buckoo bucks to have the data retrieved.
Registration is not an issue with XP since it's not required. Reactivation is a
50/50 shot with an OEM system yet not an issue otherwise as long as the PK is used
only for the limit of installs allowed according to the EULA.

>
> | > |
> | > | Says who and since when? All I know is they never passed the word
> on to
> | > me, most
> | > | likely because they knew better than to try to feed me that type
> eltoro
> | > caca. I've
> | > | repaired, upgraded and rebuilt many machines that appeared to be dead
> | > without using
> | > | identical components. For the simple fact that any component(s) may
> fail
> | > at any time
> | > | for various reasons, does not in any way mean that the user has lost
> all
> | > of their
> | > | data. The only way their data would be a total lost to the wind is if
> the
> | > hard drive
> | > | itself had a catastrophic failure due to wear and tear, another
> component
> | > failure
> | > | took it out with it or a number of many other causes.
> | > |
> | > | One issue that is present is if an OEM machines motherboard bites
> the
> | > big one and
> | > | it has to be replaced. Many OEM machines lock the OS to the BIOS of
> the
> | > motherboard
> | > | and although there are ways to circumvent around that if a different
> | > motherboard is
> | > | installed, it does not always work and an identical one must be
> installed.
> | > Again,
> | > | that in no way would be a loss of all data if the drive didn't take a
> hit.
> | > Can you
> | > | say Repair Install?
> | > |
>
> The repair install for XP would potentially work for what, only a set
> number of key elements replaced, beyond that and you will be required to get
> an authorization/activation, which, after support ends, ...... then what?
> OR, as I questioned, did Microsoft remove that requirement and the related
> *kill* in-built within XP and VISTA? {and yes I know there are questionable
> non-authorized methods available to achieve this]
>
> Now if what you're referring to is only data recovery, then of course you
> could use your *supported* VISTA or Windows7 [after support end] to retrieve
> the data, or an NTFS recovery tool [if NTFS had been used], that would be a
> *given*. There are always tools around to recover data. Moreover, as you
> indicate, replacing hard drives ONLY would not cause too many issues, though
> that MAY require a re-install if, say a large disk partitioned with 9X,
> 2000, and XP, were to have the WRONG partition corrupted/with data loss..

Data recovery was my point from the get-go as to the way I read into the response
as stated previously.

>
> Anyway, as usual, a thought was placed by one who continues to use 9X with
> the thoughts related [perhaps uninformed] regarding potential issues in
> XP/VISTA as comparison.
>
> What was missing, was the registry key in 9X to remove, and a related XP
> registry entry or entries which accomplished that same task,, e.g., the
> transport/tranfer ability of 2000, XP, and VISTA.
>
> | > | --
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
> | > | Conflicts start where information lacks.
> | > | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
> | > |
> | > | Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> | > | How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
>


--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
 
Re: Computer Failure

No, not referring to you. Referring to letterman.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u1FMb4odIHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> news:et7D2dkdIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> | Nevermind, he was mostly wrong.
> |
> | --
> | Gary S. Terhune
> | MS-MVP Shell/User
> | www.grystmill.com
>
> Huh, you referring to me... care to place a bet that this could not be an
> issues at times???
>
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
> |
> | "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | news:618AD7DC-73EC-402E-8FD3-73D68B4BB9D5@microsoft.com...
> | >I will need some time to digest what you are saying.
> | > Thank you for your reply!
> | > As far as the other machine ...it was assembled by Microtime...no
> longsr
> | > in
> | > the area.... in 1999. A 400 MHZ. A month or so back, the color schemes
> | > began
> | > misbehaving...at times at bootup time, later while in session. It kept
> | > swithcing from correct shade to no color, at all. By moving the
> Monitor
> or
> | > the Tower, it appeared to restore the color, but not always. I
> | > re-installed
> | > the Video Drivers, but no go. Suspecting loose connections, I opened
> the
> | > case
> | > and re-seated the cards and the cables attachements. That appeared to
> do
> | > some
> | > good, but soon it started misbehaving, again. In the meantime, the
> system
> | > had
> | > stopped seeing the Iomega Zip drive and the CD Drive. Twice I reseated
> the
> | > cables on those units (power and signal), but no go. On one occasion,
> | > while
> | > the Computer was on, I removed the power cable of the Iomega Drive and
> | > while
> | > re-attaching it, I must have touched a bad spot, since the power to
> the
> | > tower
> | > was cut off. A short, perhaps. That was it!
> | >
> | > "letterman@invalid.com" wrote:
> | >
> | >> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
> | >> <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> | >>
> | >> >For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly started
> | >> >having
> | >> >problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary and a
> | >> >secondary
> | >> >Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from
> them.
> | >> >The
> | >> >prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good
> stored
> | >> >Data.
> | >> >The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many family
> | >> >photos.
> | >> >Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
> machine
> | >> >and
> | >> >get the info that I would like to save?
> | >> >Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
> | >> >Thank you!
> | >>
> | >> YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some of
> the
> | >> computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for Win98.
> I'd
> | >> find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had them in
> a
> | >> 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium II
> or
> | >> III.
> | >>
> | >> I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
> 1999.
> | >> It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another Pentium
> | >> 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in a
> | >> PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install CD
> to
> | >> get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
> changed),
> | >> etc....
> | >>
> | >> That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or anything
> | >> newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either have to
> | >> find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to get
> an
> | >> expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I won't
> | >> even touch XP or Vista.
> | >>
> | >> I'm not sure of WinME allows for this or not.
> | >>
> | >> The whole issue comes down to the format of the hard drive. If it's
> a
> | >> FAT32, you can still read the data, even from DOS. Actually, you
> | >> could boot those drives from DOS and save your photos and stuff, but
> | >> you'll lose the long filenames. (Of course they could be renamed
> back
> | >> later if you know what to name them, and have a lot of time to
> spend).
> | >>
> | >> You did not say what's wrong with your computer, or what speed it is.
> | >> Maybe it just needs a new Ram stick or video card or something. Tell
> | >> us what's wrong.....
> | >>
> | >> And, YES, you could install Win98se on another computer (from
> | >> scratch), and still plug in your secondary hard drive and you'll see
> | >> all your data. I actually have one drive that is nothing but
> storage.
> | >> In other words, my OS and programs are on the FIRST harddrive. My
> | >> storage is all on a SECOND (slave) drive. I have a 3rd drive, which
> | >> is where I moved a bunch of storage when I ran out of space on the
> | >> regular one. I just unplugged one of the CD drives, and plugged in
> | >> the 3rd drive, moved a bunch of stuff to drive 3, and when I was
> done,
> | >> I unplugged it, plugged back my CD drive and put that drive in a safe
> | >> place. I dont burn CDs or DVDs, I just store stuff on harddrives and
> | >> have a copy of each drive as a backup. I had too many "homemade" CDs
> | >> fail in the past. I dont trust them.
> | >>
> | >> Hope this helps.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >>
> |
>
>
 
Re: Computer Failure



"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
news:e5Y8X%23sdIHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:uHrU9AsdIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| >
| >
| > "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
| > news:%233q2A2pdIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| > | Please post any relevant points in my response that indicate such as
to
| > the textual
| > | content provided by the poster I responded to.
| > |
| > | --
| > |
| > |
| > | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| > | Conflicts start where information lacks.
| > | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
| >
| > Sure, perhaps we can re-hash some issues which appeared as reasoning for
| > both your responses.
| > INLINE
| >
| > |
| > |
| > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:e1GAe4odIHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | > So you're saying you no longer have to register/activate the XP OS?
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > MEB
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
| > | > news:%23Md4FcldIHA.5416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | <letterman@invalid.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:2kaqr31m82ubqlbmhrph3rruuvqaaitecl@4ax.com...
| > | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
| > | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
| > | > | >
| > | > | >>For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly
started
| > | > having
| > | > | >>problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary
and a
| > | > secondary
| > | > | >>Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from
| > them.
| > | > The
| > | > | >>prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good
| > stored
| > | > Data.
| > | > | >>The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many
family
| > | > photos.
| > | > | >>Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
| > machine
| > | > and
| > | > | >>get the info that I would like to save?
| > | > | >>Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
| > | > | >>Thank you!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some
of
| > the
| > | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for
Win98.
| > I'd
| > | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had
them in
| > a
| > | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium
II
| > or
| > | > | > III.
| >
| > Here is a logical idea,, if the BIOS translations are markedly
different,
| > there MAY be some potential corruption.
| > And placing the disk in a newer system WOULD couse issues unless
precautions
| > were taken.
|
| The statement either above your response or below mine here to which it
appears you
| responded to, were not made by me.

That was understood, the opening for this post was:
"| >... perhaps we can re-hash some issues which appeared as reasoning for
| > both your responses."

|
| >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
| > 1999.
| > | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
| > Pentium
| > | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in
a
| > | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install
CD
| > to
| > | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
| > changed),
| > | > | > etc....
| > | > |
| > | > | That's what happens when major components are changed and the
| > harware is
| > | > no longer
| > | > | enumerated in the registry. The last thing I would do is
reinstall
| > all of
| > | > the
| > | > | drivers again without ripping out the ones used in the previous
| > machine,
| > | > even better
| > | > | I'd yank the entire Enum key and let it rebuild.
| >
| > And that works, but this is generally the time to recommend
[particularly if
| > the OS is 4 or more years old{installed time}] a re-install to dump all
| > those old applications likely not used anymore, and cleanup the system
with
| > a clean install, or at least that's generally what I try to advise..
|
| Now we got it, the statement above your response I did make and I won't
disagree
| with your mentioned method.
|
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
| > anything
| > | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either
have
| > to
| > | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to
get
| > an
| > | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
| > won't
| > | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
| >
| > Here I believe the issue was the ability to move 9X from any machine to
any
| > other machine, or completely re-install WITHOUT needing to re-register
or
| > get re-authorized. You and I realize there will always be ways to
recover
| > data, but not necessarily the ability to use one of the newer OSs
LEGALLY
| > should something require re-authorization after *Service Life*. Or is
there
| > a general mis-conception by the general users related thereto?
|
| The statement above yours is not mine, and I disagree with your response
only for
| the fact I believe we read into the responders reply differently. I see
it as if the
| XP machine flew the coop, your data went with it unless an identical
replacement mobo
| was installed or you paid buckoo bucks to have the data retrieved.
| Registration is not an issue with XP since it's not required.
Reactivation is a
| 50/50 shot with an OEM system yet not an issue otherwise as long as the PK
is used
| only for the limit of installs allowed according to the EULA.

Okay then, you mention PK (product key), how can it be used to activate XP
systems should it be necessary, say after support enmd and/or after major
hardware changes WITHOUT calling Microsoft for activation?

And you may be more right in your interpretation of what had been intended,
though to qualify my comment, non-XP/NT users ideas concerning the
portability of XP and above OSs seems to taint statements when they discuss
them. I had tried previously to bring PA Bear into a discussion on these
issues for the 9X user to ponder, and for any corrections or other related
to these issues, however that debate didn't occur.

|
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | Says who and since when? All I know is they never passed the
word
| > on to
| > | > me, most
| > | > | likely because they knew better than to try to feed me that type
| > eltoro
| > | > caca. I've
| > | > | repaired, upgraded and rebuilt many machines that appeared to be
dead
| > | > without using
| > | > | identical components. For the simple fact that any component(s)
may
| > fail
| > | > at any time
| > | > | for various reasons, does not in any way mean that the user has
lost
| > all
| > | > of their
| > | > | data. The only way their data would be a total lost to the wind
is if
| > the
| > | > hard drive
| > | > | itself had a catastrophic failure due to wear and tear, another
| > component
| > | > failure
| > | > | took it out with it or a number of many other causes.
| > | > |
| > | > | One issue that is present is if an OEM machines motherboard
bites
| > the
| > | > big one and
| > | > | it has to be replaced. Many OEM machines lock the OS to the BIOS
of
| > the
| > | > motherboard
| > | > | and although there are ways to circumvent around that if a
different
| > | > motherboard is
| > | > | installed, it does not always work and an identical one must be
| > installed.
| > | > Again,
| > | > | that in no way would be a loss of all data if the drive didn't
take a
| > hit.
| > | > Can you
| > | > | say Repair Install?
| > | > |
| >
| > The repair install for XP would potentially work for what, only a set
| > number of key elements replaced, beyond that and you will be required to
get
| > an authorization/activation, which, after support ends, ...... then
what?

Here is the nagging question and the *reluctance point*/argue point found
[even by XP and VISTA users] related to the continued usability of the newer
OSs after their support life ends. I generally see the standard "well if you
don't change to much, there will be no issues" as a response in
forums/discussions where the issue has been raised. But that does not answer
the question [okay, I admit I have recently dropped monitoring the XP/VISTA
newsgroups].

| > OR, as I questioned, did Microsoft remove that requirement and the
related
| > *kill* in-built within XP and VISTA? {and yes I know there are
questionable
| > non-authorized methods available to achieve this]

Again, this issue sticks in the craw of many users of Microsoft products.
The kill off of the OS if at some point activations are no longer offered.

| >
| > Now if what you're referring to is only data recovery, then of course
you
| > could use your *supported* VISTA or Windows7 [after support end] to
retrieve
| > the data, or an NTFS recovery tool [if NTFS had been used], that would
be a
| > *given*. There are always tools around to recover data. Moreover, as you
| > indicate, replacing hard drives ONLY would not cause too many issues,
though
| > that MAY require a re-install if, say a large disk partitioned with 9X,
| > 2000, and XP, were to have the WRONG partition corrupted/with data
loss..
|
| Data recovery was my point from the get-go as to the way I read into the
response
| as stated previously.

Okay, forgive me then, but still the issues are 9X portability verses the
still apparent unresolved portability of the newer Microsoft OSs,
particularly when struck by potential hardware loss/failure in the future.
And of course, XP users will likely be faced with the same issues 9X users
are, lack of hardware which supports the OSs. Using this, less than two
years after support end for 9X, and hardware that supported the OS is
disappearing from even the auction sites; and this was an OS which was
around for close to a decade. And just as the PNP of 9X was outdated by
hardware changes and lack of drivers for new hardware supplied, so will
XP's, hardware code is constantly changed, particularly when Microsoft
demands it..

I do find it interesting that there are still a number of users who have
*upgraded to XP* on their VISTA boxes, but I understand that well, XP will
'scream' on those VISTA qualified boxes verses VISTA's bulky loading and
speed.

As an aside, I noted the pre-requisite installations for VISTA were pulled
for its SP1, anyone know why, and whether this SP is actually safe to
install for the general VISTA user?

|
| >
| > Anyway, as usual, a thought was placed by one who continues to use 9X
with
| > the thoughts related [perhaps uninformed] regarding potential issues in
| > XP/VISTA as comparison.
| >
| > What was missing, was the registry key in 9X to remove, and a related XP
| > registry entry or entries which accomplished that same task,, e.g., the
| > transport/tranfer ability of 2000, XP, and VISTA.
| >
| > | > | --
| > | > | Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| > | > | Conflicts start where information lacks.
| > | > | http://basconotw.mvps.org/
| > --
| > MEB
| > _________
| --
| Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| Conflicts start where information lacks.
| http://basconotw.mvps.org/
|

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure



"MEB" wrote:

>
>
> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
> | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and Monitor to
> | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
> | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor light
> from
> | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound and
> no-go.
> | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the two
> | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on the
> first
> | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
> although
> | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently, however,
> it
> | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not attached
> and
> | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
> | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables, dust up
> | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
> | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
> |
>
> Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date there may
> be something else to try.
>
> As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
> keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash for
> that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk created to
> automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears that
> this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
> successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to electrical
> issues, spikes, etc..
>
> First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10 minutes to
> completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether it is
> still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and run
> the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this appears
> to initially correct the issues.
>

**** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in place?
The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
> |
> | "MEB" wrote:
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:618AD7DC-73EC-402E-8FD3-73D68B4BB9D5@microsoft.com...
> | > | I will need some time to digest what you are saying.
> | > | Thank you for your reply!
> | > | As far as the other machine ...it was assembled by Microtime...no
> longsr
> | > in
> | > | the area.... in 1999. A 400 MHZ. A month or so back, the color schemes
> | > began
> | > | misbehaving...at times at bootup time, later while in session. It kept
> | > | swithcing from correct shade to no color, at all. By moving the
> Monitor or
> | > | the Tower, it appeared to restore the color, but not always. I
> | > re-installed
> | > | the Video Drivers, but no go. Suspecting loose connections, I opened
> the
> | > case
> | > | and re-seated the cards and the cables attachements. That appeared to
> do
> | > some
> | > | good, but soon it started misbehaving, again.
> | >
> | > A potential cause could be the connectors. They rely upon two *fingers*
> | > inside the connecotrs for each pin, pressing upon the outside of the
> pin.
> | > The weight of the cord will over time cause these fingers to expand.[in
> | > addition to hot and cold] causing poor connections. Another would be the
> | > known value of corrosion and its effect on these same parts.
> Additionally,
> | > the monitor connectors MAY have broken their soldered connection.
> | > Another would be, particularly if the cord drapes over the back of a
> desk,
> | > the potential break of the internal wires in the cord. This also places
> | > addition stress on those connectins. Moving the computer or montitor may
> | > cause these issues to temporarily seem to be fixed.
> | >
> | > | In the meantime, the system had
> | > | stopped seeing the Iomega Zip drive and the CD Drive. Twice I reseated
> the
> | > | cables on those units (power and signal), but no go. On one occasion,
> | > while
> | > | the Computer was on, I removed the power cable of the Iomega Drive and
> | > while
> | > | re-attaching it, I must have touched a bad spot, since the power to
> the
> | > tower
> | > | was cut off. A short, perhaps. That was it!
> | >
> | > Well, depending upon how familiar you are with power supplies, you may
> have
> | > caused a short which has blown out one of the internal fuses. If you're
> | > interested, check those, IF what you're indicating is that this old
> computer
> | > will no longer start or boot..
> | >
> | > --
> | >
> | > MEB
> | > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> | > _________
> | >
> | >
> | > |
> | > | "letterman@invalid.com" wrote:
> | > |
> | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
> | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> | > | >
> | > | > >For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly started
> | > having
> | > | > >problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary and a
> | > secondary
> | > | > >Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve from
> them.
> | > The
> | > | > >prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other good
> stored
> | > Data.
> | > | > >The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many family
> | > photos.
> | > | > >Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
> machine
> | > and
> | > | > >get the info that I would like to save?
> | > | > >Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
> | > | > >Thank you!
> | > | >
> | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some of
> the
> | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for Win98.
> I'd
> | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had them in
> a
> | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium II
> or
> | > | > III.
> | > | >
> | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
> 1999.
> | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
> Pentium
> | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in a
> | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install CD
> to
> | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
> changed),
> | > | > etc....
> | > | >
> | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
> anything
> | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either have
> to
> | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to get
> an
> | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
> won't
> | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
> | > | >
> | > | > I'm not sure of WinME allows for this or not.
> | > | >
> | > | > The whole issue comes down to the format of the hard drive. If it's
> a
> | > | > FAT32, you can still read the data, even from DOS. Actually, you
> | > | > could boot those drives from DOS and save your photos and stuff, but
> | > | > you'll lose the long filenames. (Of course they could be renamed
> back
> | > | > later if you know what to name them, and have a lot of time to
> spend).
> | > | >
> | > | > You did not say what's wrong with your computer, or what speed it
> is.
> | > | > Maybe it just needs a new Ram stick or video card or something.
> Tell
> | > | > us what's wrong.....
> | > | >
> | > | > And, YES, you could install Win98se on another computer (from
> | > | > scratch), and still plug in your secondary hard drive and you'll see
> | > | > all your data. I actually have one drive that is nothing but
> storage.
> | > | > In other words, my OS and programs are on the FIRST harddrive. My
> | > | > storage is all on a SECOND (slave) drive. I have a 3rd drive, which
> | > | > is where I moved a bunch of storage when I ran out of space on the
> | > | > regular one. I just unplugged one of the CD drives, and plugged in
> | > | > the 3rd drive, moved a bunch of stuff to drive 3, and when I was
> done,
> | > | > I unplugged it, plugged back my CD drive and put that drive in a
> safe
> | > | > place. I dont burn CDs or DVDs, I just store stuff on harddrives
> and
> | > | > have a copy of each drive as a backup. I had too many "homemade"
> CDs
> | > | > fail in the past. I dont trust them.
> | > | >
> | > | > Hope this helps.
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
>
>
>
 
Re: Computer Failure



"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:73FE3E92-A8C1-4020-87B0-B34D99A99759@microsoft.com...
|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| >
| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
| > | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and Monitor
to
| > | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
| > | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor
light
| > from
| > | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound and
| > no-go.
| > | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the
two
| > | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on
the
| > first
| > | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
| > although
| > | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently,
however,
| > it
| > | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not
attached
| > and
| > | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
| > | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables, dust
up
| > | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
| > | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
| > |
| >
| > Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date there
may
| > be something else to try.
| >
| > As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
| > keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash for
| > that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk created
to
| > automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears
that
| > this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
| > successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to
electrical
| > issues, spikes, etc..
| >
| > First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10 minutes
to
| > completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether it
is
| > still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and
run
| > the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this
appears
| > to initially correct the issues.
| >
|
| **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in
place?
| The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.

Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and you
create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash program.
Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to flash
the BIOS.
As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make sure
the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash. Check
on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the proper
flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if necessary,
ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
indicated on the info for the download.
Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included within
the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash disk
on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which it
will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.

NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS prior
to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at these
files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of what
the present BIOS version and subversion is.

| > --
| >
| > MEB
| > _________
| > |
| > | "MEB" wrote:
| > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:618AD7DC-73EC-402E-8FD3-73D68B4BB9D5@microsoft.com...
| > | > | I will need some time to digest what you are saying.
| > | > | Thank you for your reply!
| > | > | As far as the other machine ...it was assembled by Microtime...no
| > longsr
| > | > in
| > | > | the area.... in 1999. A 400 MHZ. A month or so back, the color
schemes
| > | > began
| > | > | misbehaving...at times at bootup time, later while in session. It
kept
| > | > | swithcing from correct shade to no color, at all. By moving the
| > Monitor or
| > | > | the Tower, it appeared to restore the color, but not always. I
| > | > re-installed
| > | > | the Video Drivers, but no go. Suspecting loose connections, I
opened
| > the
| > | > case
| > | > | and re-seated the cards and the cables attachements. That appeared
to
| > do
| > | > some
| > | > | good, but soon it started misbehaving, again.
| > | >
| > | > A potential cause could be the connectors. They rely upon two
*fingers*
| > | > inside the connecotrs for each pin, pressing upon the outside of the
| > pin.
| > | > The weight of the cord will over time cause these fingers to
expand.[in
| > | > addition to hot and cold] causing poor connections. Another would be
the
| > | > known value of corrosion and its effect on these same parts.
| > Additionally,
| > | > the monitor connectors MAY have broken their soldered connection.
| > | > Another would be, particularly if the cord drapes over the back of
a
| > desk,
| > | > the potential break of the internal wires in the cord. This also
places
| > | > addition stress on those connectins. Moving the computer or montitor
may
| > | > cause these issues to temporarily seem to be fixed.
| > | >
| > | > | In the meantime, the system had
| > | > | stopped seeing the Iomega Zip drive and the CD Drive. Twice I
reseated
| > the
| > | > | cables on those units (power and signal), but no go. On one
occasion,
| > | > while
| > | > | the Computer was on, I removed the power cable of the Iomega Drive
and
| > | > while
| > | > | re-attaching it, I must have touched a bad spot, since the power
to
| > the
| > | > tower
| > | > | was cut off. A short, perhaps. That was it!
| > | >
| > | > Well, depending upon how familiar you are with power supplies, you
may
| > have
| > | > caused a short which has blown out one of the internal fuses. If
you're
| > | > interested, check those, IF what you're indicating is that this old
| > computer
| > | > will no longer start or boot..
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > MEB
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | "letterman@invalid.com" wrote:
| > | > |
| > | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
| > | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
| > | > | >
| > | > | > >For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly
started
| > | > having
| > | > | > >problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary
and a
| > | > secondary
| > | > | > >Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve
from
| > them.
| > | > The
| > | > | > >prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other
good
| > stored
| > | > Data.
| > | > | > >The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many
family
| > | > photos.
| > | > | > >Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
| > machine
| > | > and
| > | > | > >get the info that I would like to save?
| > | > | > >Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
| > | > | > >Thank you!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some
of
| > the
| > | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for
Win98.
| > I'd
| > | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had
them in
| > a
| > | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium
II
| > or
| > | > | > III.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
| > 1999.
| > | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
| > Pentium
| > | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in
a
| > | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install
CD
| > to
| > | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
| > changed),
| > | > | > etc....
| > | > | >
| > | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
| > anything
| > | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either
have
| > to
| > | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to
get
| > an
| > | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
| > won't
| > | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I'm not sure of WinME allows for this or not.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > The whole issue comes down to the format of the hard drive. If
it's
| > a
| > | > | > FAT32, you can still read the data, even from DOS. Actually,
you
| > | > | > could boot those drives from DOS and save your photos and stuff,
but
| > | > | > you'll lose the long filenames. (Of course they could be
renamed
| > back
| > | > | > later if you know what to name them, and have a lot of time to
| > spend).
| > | > | >
| > | > | > You did not say what's wrong with your computer, or what speed
it
| > is.
| > | > | > Maybe it just needs a new Ram stick or video card or something.
| > Tell
| > | > | > us what's wrong.....
| > | > | >
| > | > | > And, YES, you could install Win98se on another computer (from
| > | > | > scratch), and still plug in your secondary hard drive and you'll
see
| > | > | > all your data. I actually have one drive that is nothing but
| > storage.
| > | > | > In other words, my OS and programs are on the FIRST harddrive.
My
| > | > | > storage is all on a SECOND (slave) drive. I have a 3rd drive,
which
| > | > | > is where I moved a bunch of storage when I ran out of space on
the
| > | > | > regular one. I just unplugged one of the CD drives, and plugged
in
| > | > | > the 3rd drive, moved a bunch of stuff to drive 3, and when I was
| > done,
| > | > | > I unplugged it, plugged back my CD drive and put that drive in a
| > safe
| > | > | > place. I dont burn CDs or DVDs, I just store stuff on
harddrives
| > and
| > | > | > have a copy of each drive as a backup. I had too many
"homemade"
| > CDs
| > | > | > fail in the past. I dont trust them.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Hope this helps.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure

Oh, I should have made this statement earlier:

SRTSP
- PRIOR to flashing the BIOS -
You DID indicate that moving the computer around seemed to temporarily fix
the computer, so EVEN THOUGH the visual inspection might seem to indicate
the cables, connectors, and other are good, completely remove power from the
board/computer and if at all possible, replace with different cables and
such to negate potential breaks, bad connections or other.
Wiggle or physically remove and clean [pencil eraser] any internal cards
connections; the processor [if slot1]; memory chips; etc.. Use a SAFE spray
cleaner [contains no oils or leaves residue] or de-natured alcohol and
q-tips (or something) to clean the slots [make sure no threads/fibers are
left].
MAKE SURE that the board is 'completely dried' before re-assembling then
carefully wiggle the re-installed cards to ensure proper connections, and
only then re-applying power.

IF checking all this and flashing the BIOS does fix the computer, go back
through and clean the heatsinks and fans and oil any fan bearings, replace
the heat sink compound for the processor and chips {if applicable} if
possible {something like Arctic Silver}, and prep the computer for another
few years of use.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________


"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uSJ6Md8dIHA.4260@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
|
|
| "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| news:73FE3E92-A8C1-4020-87B0-B34D99A99759@microsoft.com...
| |
| |
| | "MEB" wrote:
| |
| | >
| | >
| | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| | > news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
| | > | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and
Monitor
| to
| | > | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
| | > | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor
| light
| | > from
| | > | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound
and
| | > no-go.
| | > | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the
| two
| | > | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on
| the
| | > first
| | > | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
| | > although
| | > | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently,
| however,
| | > it
| | > | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not
| attached
| | > and
| | > | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
| | > | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables,
dust
| up
| | > | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
| | > | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
| | > |
| | >
| | > Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date
there
| may
| | > be something else to try.
| | >
| | > As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
| | > keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash
for
| | > that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk
created
| to
| | > automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears
| that
| | > this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
| | > successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to
| electrical
| | > issues, spikes, etc..
| | >
| | > First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10
minutes
| to
| | > completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether
it
| is
| | > still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and
| run
| | > the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this
| appears
| | > to initially correct the issues.
| | >
| |
| | **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in
| place?
| | The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
|
| Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
| An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and you
| create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash
program.
| Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
| drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to flash
| the BIOS.
| As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make sure
| the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash.
Check
| on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the proper
| flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if
necessary,
| ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
| indicated on the info for the download.
| Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
| refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
| function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included
within
| the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash disk
| on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
| flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
| After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
| configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which
it
| will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
|
| NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS
prior
| to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at these
| files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of
what
| the present BIOS version and subversion is.
|
| | > --
| | >
| | > MEB
| | > _________
| | > |
| | > | "MEB" wrote:
| | > |
| | > | >
| | > | >
| | > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| | > | > news:618AD7DC-73EC-402E-8FD3-73D68B4BB9D5@microsoft.com...
| | > | > | I will need some time to digest what you are saying.
| | > | > | Thank you for your reply!
| | > | > | As far as the other machine ...it was assembled by
Microtime...no
| | > longsr
| | > | > in
| | > | > | the area.... in 1999. A 400 MHZ. A month or so back, the color
| schemes
| | > | > began
| | > | > | misbehaving...at times at bootup time, later while in session.
It
| kept
| | > | > | swithcing from correct shade to no color, at all. By moving the
| | > Monitor or
| | > | > | the Tower, it appeared to restore the color, but not always. I
| | > | > re-installed
| | > | > | the Video Drivers, but no go. Suspecting loose connections, I
| opened
| | > the
| | > | > case
| | > | > | and re-seated the cards and the cables attachements. That
appeared
| to
| | > do
| | > | > some
| | > | > | good, but soon it started misbehaving, again.
| | > | >
| | > | > A potential cause could be the connectors. They rely upon two
| *fingers*
| | > | > inside the connecotrs for each pin, pressing upon the outside of
the
| | > pin.
| | > | > The weight of the cord will over time cause these fingers to
| expand.[in
| | > | > addition to hot and cold] causing poor connections. Another would
be
| the
| | > | > known value of corrosion and its effect on these same parts.
| | > Additionally,
| | > | > the monitor connectors MAY have broken their soldered connection.
| | > | > Another would be, particularly if the cord drapes over the back
of
| a
| | > desk,
| | > | > the potential break of the internal wires in the cord. This also
| places
| | > | > addition stress on those connectins. Moving the computer or
montitor
| may
| | > | > cause these issues to temporarily seem to be fixed.
| | > | >
| | > | > | In the meantime, the system had
| | > | > | stopped seeing the Iomega Zip drive and the CD Drive. Twice I
| reseated
| | > the
| | > | > | cables on those units (power and signal), but no go. On one
| occasion,
| | > | > while
| | > | > | the Computer was on, I removed the power cable of the Iomega
Drive
| and
| | > | > while
| | > | > | re-attaching it, I must have touched a bad spot, since the power
| to
| | > the
| | > | > tower
| | > | > | was cut off. A short, perhaps. That was it!
| | > | >
| | > | > Well, depending upon how familiar you are with power supplies,
you
| may
| | > have
| | > | > caused a short which has blown out one of the internal fuses. If
| you're
| | > | > interested, check those, IF what you're indicating is that this
old
| | > computer
| | > | > will no longer start or boot..
| | > | >
| | > | > --
| | > | >
| | > | > MEB
| | > | > _________
| | > | >
| | > | >
| | > | > |
| | > | > | "letterman@invalid.com" wrote:
| | > | > |
| | > | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
| | > | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > >For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly
| started
| | > | > having
| | > | > | > >problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary
| and a
| | > | > secondary
| | > | > | > >Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve
| from
| | > them.
| | > | > The
| | > | > | > >prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other
| good
| | > stored
| | > | > Data.
| | > | > | > >The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many
| family
| | > | > photos.
| | > | > | > >Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
| | > machine
| | > | > and
| | > | > | > >get the info that I would like to save?
| | > | > | > >Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
| | > | > | > >Thank you!
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine.
Some
| of
| | > the
| | > | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for
| Win98.
| | > I'd
| | > | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had
| them in
| | > a
| | > | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz
Pentium
| II
| | > or
| | > | > | > III.
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed
in
| | > 1999.
| | > | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
| | > Pentium
| | > | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's
in
| a
| | > | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98
install
| CD
| | > to
| | > | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
| | > changed),
| | > | > | > etc....
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
| | > anything
| | > | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either
| have
| | > to
| | > | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have
to
| get
| | > an
| | > | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason,
I
| | > won't
| | > | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > I'm not sure of WinME allows for this or not.
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > The whole issue comes down to the format of the hard drive.
If
| it's
| | > a
| | > | > | > FAT32, you can still read the data, even from DOS. Actually,
| you
| | > | > | > could boot those drives from DOS and save your photos and
stuff,
| but
| | > | > | > you'll lose the long filenames. (Of course they could be
| renamed
| | > back
| | > | > | > later if you know what to name them, and have a lot of time to
| | > spend).
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > You did not say what's wrong with your computer, or what speed
| it
| | > is.
| | > | > | > Maybe it just needs a new Ram stick or video card or
something.
| | > Tell
| | > | > | > us what's wrong.....
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > And, YES, you could install Win98se on another computer (from
| | > | > | > scratch), and still plug in your secondary hard drive and
you'll
| see
| | > | > | > all your data. I actually have one drive that is nothing but
| | > storage.
| | > | > | > In other words, my OS and programs are on the FIRST harddrive.
| My
| | > | > | > storage is all on a SECOND (slave) drive. I have a 3rd drive,
| which
| | > | > | > is where I moved a bunch of storage when I ran out of space on
| the
| | > | > | > regular one. I just unplugged one of the CD drives, and
plugged
| in
| | > | > | > the 3rd drive, moved a bunch of stuff to drive 3, and when I
was
| | > done,
| | > | > | > I unplugged it, plugged back my CD drive and put that drive in
a
| | > safe
| | > | > | > place. I dont burn CDs or DVDs, I just store stuff on
| harddrives
| | > and
| | > | > | > have a copy of each drive as a backup. I had too many
| "homemade"
| | > CDs
| | > | > | > fail in the past. I dont trust them.
| | > | > | >
| | > | > | > Hope this helps.
|
| --
|
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| _________
|
|
|
 
Re: Computer Failure

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OYNYXYxdIHA.6136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> | > The repair install for XP would potentially work for what, only a set
> | > number of key elements replaced, beyond that and you will be required to
> get
> | > an authorization/activation, which, after support ends, ...... then
> what?
>
> Here is the nagging question and the *reluctance point*/argue point found
> [even by XP and VISTA users] related to the continued usability of the newer
> OSs after their support life ends. I generally see the standard "well if you
> don't change to much, there will be no issues" as a response in
> forums/discussions where the issue has been raised. But that does not answer
> the question [okay, I admit I have recently dropped monitoring the XP/VISTA
> newsgroups].
>
> | > OR, as I questioned, did Microsoft remove that requirement and the
> related
> | > *kill* in-built within XP and VISTA? {and yes I know there are
> questionable
> | > non-authorized methods available to achieve this]
>
> Again, this issue sticks in the craw of many users of Microsoft products.
> The kill off of the OS if at some point activations are no longer offered.

Since it appears to me that your main concerns are product activation after end of
support, I understand the concern and have no answer on how it will be addressed.
Not because I can't say but because I don't know. I'd like to look at it in a
optimist way in thinking activation will remain automatic online but may be pay by
phone support, that's at least better than no support for re/activation.



--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
 
Re: Computer Failure




"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
news:uGNGXQ$dIHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:OYNYXYxdIHA.6136@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| >
| > | > The repair install for XP would potentially work for what, only a
set
| > | > number of key elements replaced, beyond that and you will be
required to
| > get
| > | > an authorization/activation, which, after support ends, ...... then
| > what?
| >
| > Here is the nagging question and the *reluctance point*/argue point
found
| > [even by XP and VISTA users] related to the continued usability of the
newer
| > OSs after their support life ends. I generally see the standard "well if
you
| > don't change to much, there will be no issues" as a response in
| > forums/discussions where the issue has been raised. But that does not
answer
| > the question [okay, I admit I have recently dropped monitoring the
XP/VISTA
| > newsgroups].
| >
| > | > OR, as I questioned, did Microsoft remove that requirement and the
| > related
| > | > *kill* in-built within XP and VISTA? {and yes I know there are
| > questionable
| > | > non-authorized methods available to achieve this]
| >
| > Again, this issue sticks in the craw of many users of Microsoft
products.
| > The kill off of the OS if at some point activations are no longer
offered.
|
| Since it appears to me that your main concerns are product activation
after end of
| support, I understand the concern and have no answer on how it will be
addressed.
| Not because I can't say but because I don't know. I'd like to look at it
in a
| optimist way in thinking activation will remain automatic online but may
be pay by
| phone support, that's at least better than no support for re/activation.
|
|
|
| --
|
|
| Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
| Conflicts start where information lacks.
| http://basconotw.mvps.org/
|

Right, this seems to be the sticking point with many. Whether or not there
will be some way in the future to use XP or even Vista should re-activation
be required. With the increased OS creation scheme now employed by Microsoft
it seems reasonable to question continued use...

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure



"MEB" wrote:

>
>
> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:73FE3E92-A8C1-4020-87B0-B34D99A99759@microsoft.com...
> |
> |
> | "MEB" wrote:
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
> | > | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and Monitor
> to
> | > | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
> | > | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor
> light
> | > from
> | > | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound and
> | > no-go.
> | > | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the
> two
> | > | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on
> the
> | > first
> | > | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
> | > although
> | > | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently,
> however,
> | > it
> | > | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not
> attached
> | > and
> | > | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
> | > | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables, dust
> up
> | > | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
> | > | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
> | > |
> | >
> | > Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date there
> may
> | > be something else to try.
> | >
> | > As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
> | > keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash for
> | > that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk created
> to
> | > automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears
> that
> | > this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
> | > successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to
> electrical
> | > issues, spikes, etc..
> | >
> | > First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10 minutes
> to
> | > completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether it
> is
> | > still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and
> run
> | > the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this
> appears
> | > to initially correct the issues.
> | >
> |
> | **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in
> place?
> | The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
>
> Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
> An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and you
> create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash program.
> Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
> drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to flash
> the BIOS.
> As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make sure
> the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash. Check
> on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the proper
> flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if necessary,
> ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
> indicated on the info for the download.
> Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
> refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
> function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included within
> the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash disk
> on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
> flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
> After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
> configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which it
> will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
>
> NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS prior
> to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at these
> files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of what
> the present BIOS version and subversion is.
>

****"MEB", I can never seem to get to a point where the Startup Disk
becomes active. The Keyboard being a problem, I can't use any of its keys to
make respond to any command, like a CTRL or DEL or F1. Eventually, the warnig
comes up:
' Keyboard Error or bo Keyboard. Keyboard is locked out - Unlock it.
CMOS Checksum Error - Defaults loaded' ...followed by a flashing dash and
that is all. As for saving the BIOS, I am at a loss.
I am currently spending some time with an old machine with 3.1 Version of
the Operating System. It still works. When I connect a second HD according to
rules, it detects it while booting, but it does not show when I check on the
available drives.
By pressing DEL and getting on the Setup Mode, I see the option of setting
the Primary Master, Secondary Master, Primary Slave and Secondary Slave...( I
need to take another look to insure of what I am saying).
The first Screen shows info about the Primary Master:
The first Option is: 2(Y)- Size: 1622- Cyls: 786- Head: 64- Precomp: 0-
Landz: 3144- Sector: 63- Mode: LBA
The next option is, respectively: 1- 1623- 3145- 16- 65535- 3144- 63- Normal
The next is, respectively: 3- 1622- 786- 64- 65535- 3144- 63- Large
If I skip that step, the next screens shows blanks except for the options.
Needless to say....it is confusing and I just skip all.
My best choice would be to hook up the Hard Disks with from the troubled
Computer to the one I am currently using...newest one..., if I really want to
get the stored Data from them.
Thank you, for your time!




> | > --
> | >
> | > MEB
> | > _________
> | > |
> | > | "MEB" wrote:
> | > |
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > | > news:618AD7DC-73EC-402E-8FD3-73D68B4BB9D5@microsoft.com...
> | > | > | I will need some time to digest what you are saying.
> | > | > | Thank you for your reply!
> | > | > | As far as the other machine ...it was assembled by Microtime...no
> | > longsr
> | > | > in
> | > | > | the area.... in 1999. A 400 MHZ. A month or so back, the color
> schemes
> | > | > began
> | > | > | misbehaving...at times at bootup time, later while in session. It
> kept
> | > | > | swithcing from correct shade to no color, at all. By moving the
> | > Monitor or
> | > | > | the Tower, it appeared to restore the color, but not always. I
> | > | > re-installed
> | > | > | the Video Drivers, but no go. Suspecting loose connections, I
> opened
> | > the
> | > | > case
> | > | > | and re-seated the cards and the cables attachements. That appeared
> to
> | > do
> | > | > some
> | > | > | good, but soon it started misbehaving, again.
> | > | >
> | > | > A potential cause could be the connectors. They rely upon two
> *fingers*
> | > | > inside the connecotrs for each pin, pressing upon the outside of the
> | > pin.
> | > | > The weight of the cord will over time cause these fingers to
> expand.[in
> | > | > addition to hot and cold] causing poor connections. Another would be
> the
> | > | > known value of corrosion and its effect on these same parts.
> | > Additionally,
> | > | > the monitor connectors MAY have broken their soldered connection.
> | > | > Another would be, particularly if the cord drapes over the back of
> a
> | > desk,
> | > | > the potential break of the internal wires in the cord. This also
> places
> | > | > addition stress on those connectins. Moving the computer or montitor
> may
> | > | > cause these issues to temporarily seem to be fixed.
> | > | >
> | > | > | In the meantime, the system had
> | > | > | stopped seeing the Iomega Zip drive and the CD Drive. Twice I
> reseated
> | > the
> | > | > | cables on those units (power and signal), but no go. On one
> occasion,
> | > | > while
> | > | > | the Computer was on, I removed the power cable of the Iomega Drive
> and
> | > | > while
> | > | > | re-attaching it, I must have touched a bad spot, since the power
> to
> | > the
> | > | > tower
> | > | > | was cut off. A short, perhaps. That was it!
> | > | >
> | > | > Well, depending upon how familiar you are with power supplies, you
> may
> | > have
> | > | > caused a short which has blown out one of the internal fuses. If
> you're
> | > | > interested, check those, IF what you're indicating is that this old
> | > computer
> | > | > will no longer start or boot..
> | > | >
> | > | > --
> | > | >
> | > | > MEB
> | > | > _________
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > |
> | > | > | "letterman@invalid.com" wrote:
> | > | > |
> | > | > | > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:20:02 -0800, BAP
> | > | > | > <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > >For some time I have been using a Machine that has suddenly
> started
> | > | > having
> | > | > | > >problems and is, currently, not functioning. It had a primary
> and a
> | > | > secondary
> | > | > | > >Hard Disks with a lot of Data that I would like to retrieve
> from
> | > them.
> | > | > The
> | > | > | > >prinmary has the Operating System (W98SE), along with other
> good
> | > stored
> | > | > Data.
> | > | > | > >The Secondary Disk has a lot of saved information and many
> family
> | > | > photos.
> | > | > | > >Is there an easy way for me to install these disks on another
> | > machine
> | > | > and
> | > | > | > >get the info that I would like to save?
> | > | > | > >Yes, I will back all up on CD's, once the job is done!
> | > | > | > >Thank you!
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > YES. but dont try to install them on a real new machine. Some
> of
> | > the
> | > | > | > computers made in the last few years dont have drivers for
> Win98.
> | > I'd
> | > | > | > find a machine from the same era. In other words it you had
> them in
> | > a
> | > | > | > 500mhz Pentium II, I'd look for something like an 800mhz Pentium
> II
> | > or
> | > | > | > III.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > I have the very same installation of Win98se that I installed in
> | > 1999.
> | > | > | > It was in a Pentium 266mhz. Since then I moved it to another
> | > Pentium
> | > | > | > 266, then to a PII 500mhz, then to a PII 800mhz, and now it's in
> a
> | > | > | > PIII 1000mhz. Every time I have had to insert the Win98 install
> CD
> | > to
> | > | > | > get the drivers to work with the motherboard, video card (if
> | > changed),
> | > | > | > etc....
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > That's why I like 98. You CAN NOT do that with Win2K, XP or
> | > anything
> | > | > | > newer. From waht I know, if the XP computer dies, you either
> have
> | > to
> | > | > | > find an identical motherboard, or you lose all data (or have to
> get
> | > an
> | > | > | > expensive data retrieval company involved). For that reason, I
> | > won't
> | > | > | > even touch XP or Vista.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > I'm not sure of WinME allows for this or not.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > The whole issue comes down to the format of the hard drive. If
> it's
> | > a
> | > | > | > FAT32, you can still read the data, even from DOS. Actually,
> you
> | > | > | > could boot those drives from DOS and save your photos and stuff,
> but
> | > | > | > you'll lose the long filenames. (Of course they could be
> renamed
> | > back
> | > | > | > later if you know what to name them, and have a lot of time to
> | > spend).
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > You did not say what's wrong with your computer, or what speed
> it
> | > is.
> | > | > | > Maybe it just needs a new Ram stick or video card or something.
> | > Tell
> | > | > | > us what's wrong.....
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > And, YES, you could install Win98se on another computer (from
> | > | > | > scratch), and still plug in your secondary hard drive and you'll
> see
> | > | > | > all your data. I actually have one drive that is nothing but
> | > storage.
> | > | > | > In other words, my OS and programs are on the FIRST harddrive.
> My
> | > | > | > storage is all on a SECOND (slave) drive. I have a 3rd drive,
> which
> | > | > | > is where I moved a bunch of storage when I ran out of space on
> the
> | > | > | > regular one. I just unplugged one of the CD drives, and plugged
> in
> | > | > | > the 3rd drive, moved a bunch of stuff to drive 3, and when I was
> | > done,
> | > | > | > I unplugged it, plugged back my CD drive and put that drive in a
> | > safe
> | > | > | > place. I dont burn CDs or DVDs, I just store stuff on
> harddrives
> | > and
> | > | > | > have a copy of each drive as a backup. I had too many
> "homemade"
> | > CDs
> | > | > | > fail in the past. I dont trust them.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Hope this helps.
>
 
Re: Computer Failure


INLINE, Read carefully and completely before changing anything.

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5A0BB68D-447F-46E3-9398-683F0CD3B42F@microsoft.com...
|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| >
| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:73FE3E92-A8C1-4020-87B0-B34D99A99759@microsoft.com...
| > |
| > |
| > | "MEB" wrote:
| > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
| > | > | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and
Monitor
| > to
| > | > | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
| > | > | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor
| > light
| > | > from
| > | > | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound
and
| > | > no-go.
| > | > | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up
the
| > two
| > | > | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However,
on
| > the
| > | > first
| > | > | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
| > | > although
| > | > | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently,
| > however,
| > | > it
| > | > | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not
| > attached
| > | > and
| > | > | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
| > | > | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables,
dust
| > up
| > | > | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
| > | > | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | > Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date
there
| > may
| > | > be something else to try.
| > | >
| > | > As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except
the
| > | > keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash
for
| > | > that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk
created
| > to
| > | > automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it
appears
| > that
| > | > this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
| > | > successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to
| > electrical
| > | > issues, spikes, etc..
| > | >
| > | > First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10
minutes
| > to
| > | > completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether
it
| > is
| > | > still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032],
and
| > run
| > | > the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this
| > appears
| > | > to initially correct the issues.
| > | >
| > |
| > | **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS
in
| > place?
| > | The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
| >
| > Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
| > An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and
you
| > create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash
program.
| > Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
| > drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to
flash
| > the BIOS.
| > As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make
sure
| > the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash.
Check
| > on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the
proper
| > flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if
necessary,
| > ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
| > indicated on the info for the download.
| > Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
| > refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
| > function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included
within
| > the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash
disk
| > on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
| > flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
| > After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
| > configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which
it
| > will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
| >
| > NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS
prior
| > to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at
these
| > files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of
what
| > the present BIOS version and subversion is.
| >
|
| ?****"MEB", I can never seem to get to a point where the Startup Disk
| becomes active. The Keyboard being a problem, I can't use any of its keys
to
| make respond to any command, like a CTRL or DEL or F1. Eventually, the
warnig
| comes up:
| ' Keyboard Error or bo Keyboard. Keyboard is locked out - Unlock it.
| CMOS Checksum Error - Defaults loaded' ...followed by a flashing dash and
| that is all. As for saving the BIOS, I am at a loss.

Oh, here's something I haven't thought of in awhile... does this computer
have an actual KEYED lock on it anywhere?

| I am currently spending some time with an old machine with 3.1 Version of
| the Operating System. It still works. When I connect a second HD according
to
| rules, it detects it while booting, but it does not show when I check on
the
| available drives.

Okay, make sure to read this whole response before trying anything. As the
computer is running 3.1, it may be older and what would be used on newer
boards may not be proper for an old DOS based computer.

| By pressing DEL and getting on the Setup Mode, I see the option of setting
| the Primary Master, Secondary Master, Primary Slave and Secondary
Slave...( I
| need to take another look to insure of what I am saying).
| The first Screen shows info about the Primary Master:
| The first Option is: 2(Y)- Size: 1622- Cyls: 786- Head: 64- Precomp: 0-
| Landz: 3144- Sector: 63- Mode: LBA

Okay, perhaps you had best post the make and model of this other/older
computer, or motherboard and BIOS {preferably} before going much farther
with this..Hard drive makes and models as well.

Here's some general info:

Okay, you're apparently using the hard drive detection pane, the first
option is marked (Y) meaning best choice, so yes use that, but ONLY if that
is what it was already set at. You check that by going into the standard
setup page/pane [usually the first unless you have Soft Menu or the like]
and seeing what might be there for the hard drives. This is generally the
page where you also setup the clock, floppy disks, and errors. Write down
what is presently shown.

IF the original hard drive shows any numbers like you posted, then the
drive was either manually set or the hard drive detection pane was used to
set the properties. These are the numbers you should use when in the hard
drive detection pane, or just bypass its setup screen, moving on to the
second drive.
IF this is the case, then these numbers should be used when re-checking
through the hard drive detection pane or there is a risk of translation
change and you may trash the data on that disk when the computer starts.
You've posted what the detection screen shows so find the one which matches.

| The next option is, respectively: 1- 1623- 3145- 16- 65535- 3144- 63-
Normal
| The next is, respectively: 3- 1622- 786- 64- 65535- 3144- 63- Large
| If I skip that step, the next screens shows blanks except for the options.

If you are using the autosetup/hard drive detection in the BIOS and it is
NOT finding the second drive, then perhaps you have failed to properly set
the hard drive jumpers to act as it should, or the hard drive is unsupported
[to old for auto detection as its on-board chip does not return the
information], OR the drive has completely failed. However, for this to work
and be checked, the drives MUST be properly configured and jumpered.

IF the drives are on ONE cable, the first is master (the one the detection
wants you to pick yes for, e.g., the one originally in the computer) and its
jumpers shouild be set that way. The second drive MUST have its jumper set
for slave.

IF, on the other hand, the drives are on TWO separate cables, both must be
set as masters with their jumpers [presuming that these are the only two
drives, i.e., there is no CDROM drive]. IF there is a CD drive, and a hard
drive and CD share the cable, then the hard drive is generally set as the
master and the CD as slave.

IF. the second drive is not being detected and its jumpers and cable are
correct, then it is still possible the drive is not detectable, and must be
manually set. That can only be accomplished by finding the actual model and
make of the hard drive. I have a few older hard drives lists, so if
necessary these settings can likely be found if this is one of those older
drives..

HAVING indicated the cabling and jumpers:

IF the drives are on two separate cables and you use the hard drive
detection, then after the first screen shows the first/master found drive,
the second would show nothing as there is no second drive on that channel.
Passing that screen would take you to the second IDE channel with the second
drive.

| Needless to say....it is confusing and I just skip all.
| My best choice would be to hook up the Hard Disks with from the troubled
| Computer to the one I am currently using...newest one..., if I really want
to
| get the stored Data from them.
| Thank you, for your time!
|
|

Not necessarily. Depending upon the age and make of the various
computers/motherboards/BIOS, one may be closer to the one which originally
held the problem/target disks. I say this because of potential translation
issues, and potential hard drive overlays. The older the computer and/or
disk, the more you may encounter these issues.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure

***"
MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for it.
Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post and an
outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on the
center post points to the right one.
Also, before getting covering all the steps you have suggested I take (which
will take a bit time to figure out and precede), I have to apologize in
mistakenly saying something about the old computer on which I am trying to
hook the HD's from the failed Computer. I have stated that thesystem, while
booting, detects the presence of the Data storage HD hooked up to it. That
was wrong!
I decided to hit the Pause/Break key during the booting phase and saw that
what was detected was the CD-ROM. Specifically, this was shown, in brief:
- Detecting IDE Primary Master Disk: LBA, Mode 3, 1623MB
- Primary Slave: None
- Sec. Master: CDROM, Mode 3
- Sec Slave: None

Also, On the Std CMOS Set Up Pane:
Primary Master : Auto - Prim. Slave: None - Sec. Mast: Auto - Sec. Slave:
None

On the Integrated Peripherals Pane:
On Chip: IDE 1st and 2nd Channel Enabled
RE: PI0 of all IDE's : Auto
Re: UDMA of all IDE's : Disabled

I do not know what it all means, but to me it seems that I should change
some settings to see if the Data HD might actually be detected and become
readable.
Thank you for your patience!



"MEB" wrote:

>
> INLINE, Read carefully and completely before changing anything.
>
> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:5A0BB68D-447F-46E3-9398-683F0CD3B42F@microsoft.com...
> |
> |
> | "MEB" wrote:
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:73FE3E92-A8C1-4020-87B0-B34D99A99759@microsoft.com...
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | "MEB" wrote:
> | > |
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > | > news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
> | > | > | "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and
> Monitor
> | > to
> | > | > | another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
> | > | > | surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor
> | > light
> | > | > from
> | > | > | 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound
> and
> | > | > no-go.
> | > | > | And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up
> the
> | > two
> | > | > | components in order to get the system to boot properly. However,
> on
> | > the
> | > | > first
> | > | > | successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
> | > | > although
> | > | > | they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently,
> | > however,
> | > | > it
> | > | > | just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not
> | > attached
> | > | > and
> | > | > | that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
> | > | > | If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables,
> dust
> | > up
> | > | > | all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
> | > | > | Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
> | > | > |
> | > | >
> | > | > Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date
> there
> | > may
> | > | > be something else to try.
> | > | >
> | > | > As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except
> the
> | > | > keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash
> for
> | > | > that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk
> created
> | > to
> | > | > automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it
> appears
> | > that
> | > | > this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
> | > | > successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to
> | > electrical
> | > | > issues, spikes, etc..
> | > | >
> | > | > First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10
> minutes
> | > to
> | > | > completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether
> it
> | > is
> | > | > still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032],
> and
> | > run
> | > | > the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this
> | > appears
> | > | > to initially correct the issues.
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > | **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS
> in
> | > place?
> | > | The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
> | >
> | > Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
> | > An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and
> you
> | > create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash
> program.
> | > Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
> | > drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to
> flash
> | > the BIOS.
> | > As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make
> sure
> | > the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash.
> Check
> | > on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the
> proper
> | > flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if
> necessary,
> | > ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
> | > indicated on the info for the download.
> | > Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
> | > refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
> | > function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included
> within
> | > the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash
> disk
> | > on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
> | > flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
> | > After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
> | > configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which
> it
> | > will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
> | >
> | > NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS
> prior
> | > to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at
> these
> | > files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of
> what
> | > the present BIOS version and subversion is.
> | >
> |
> | ?****"MEB", I can never seem to get to a point where the Startup Disk
> | becomes active. The Keyboard being a problem, I can't use any of its keys
> to
> | make respond to any command, like a CTRL or DEL or F1. Eventually, the
> warnig
> | comes up:
> | ' Keyboard Error or bo Keyboard. Keyboard is locked out - Unlock it.
> | CMOS Checksum Error - Defaults loaded' ...followed by a flashing dash and
> | that is all. As for saving the BIOS, I am at a loss.
>
> Oh, here's something I haven't thought of in awhile... does this computer
> have an actual KEYED lock on it anywhere?
>
> | I am currently spending some time with an old machine with 3.1 Version of
> | the Operating System. It still works. When I connect a second HD according
> to
> | rules, it detects it while booting, but it does not show when I check on
> the
> | available drives.
>
> Okay, make sure to read this whole response before trying anything. As the
> computer is running 3.1, it may be older and what would be used on newer
> boards may not be proper for an old DOS based computer.
>
> | By pressing DEL and getting on the Setup Mode, I see the option of setting
> | the Primary Master, Secondary Master, Primary Slave and Secondary
> Slave...( I
> | need to take another look to insure of what I am saying).
> | The first Screen shows info about the Primary Master:
> | The first Option is: 2(Y)- Size: 1622- Cyls: 786- Head: 64- Precomp: 0-
> | Landz: 3144- Sector: 63- Mode: LBA
>
> Okay, perhaps you had best post the make and model of this other/older
> computer, or motherboard and BIOS {preferably} before going much farther
> with this..Hard drive makes and models as well.
>
> Here's some general info:
>
> Okay, you're apparently using the hard drive detection pane, the first
> option is marked (Y) meaning best choice, so yes use that, but ONLY if that
> is what it was already set at. You check that by going into the standard
> setup page/pane [usually the first unless you have Soft Menu or the like]
> and seeing what might be there for the hard drives. This is generally the
> page where you also setup the clock, floppy disks, and errors. Write down
> what is presently shown.
>
> IF the original hard drive shows any numbers like you posted, then the
> drive was either manually set or the hard drive detection pane was used to
> set the properties. These are the numbers you should use when in the hard
> drive detection pane, or just bypass its setup screen, moving on to the
> second drive.
> IF this is the case, then these numbers should be used when re-checking
> through the hard drive detection pane or there is a risk of translation
> change and you may trash the data on that disk when the computer starts.
> You've posted what the detection screen shows so find the one which matches.
>
> | The next option is, respectively: 1- 1623- 3145- 16- 65535- 3144- 63-
> Normal
> | The next is, respectively: 3- 1622- 786- 64- 65535- 3144- 63- Large
> | If I skip that step, the next screens shows blanks except for the options.
>
> If you are using the autosetup/hard drive detection in the BIOS and it is
> NOT finding the second drive, then perhaps you have failed to properly set
> the hard drive jumpers to act as it should, or the hard drive is unsupported
> [to old for auto detection as its on-board chip does not return the
> information], OR the drive has completely failed. However, for this to work
> and be checked, the drives MUST be properly configured and jumpered.
>
> IF the drives are on ONE cable, the first is master (the one the detection
> wants you to pick yes for, e.g., the one originally in the computer) and its
> jumpers shouild be set that way. The second drive MUST have its jumper set
> for slave.
>
> IF, on the other hand, the drives are on TWO separate cables, both must be
> set as masters with their jumpers [presuming that these are the only two
> drives, i.e., there is no CDROM drive]. IF there is a CD drive, and a hard
> drive and CD share the cable, then the hard drive is generally set as the
> master and the CD as slave.
>
> IF. the second drive is not being detected and its jumpers and cable are
> correct, then it is still possible the drive is not detectable, and must be
> manually set. That can only be accomplished by finding the actual model and
> make of the hard drive. I have a few older hard drives lists, so if
> necessary these settings can likely be found if this is one of those older
> drives..
>
> HAVING indicated the cabling and jumpers:
>
> IF the drives are on two separate cables and you use the hard drive
> detection, then after the first screen shows the first/master found drive,
> the second would show nothing as there is no second drive on that channel.
> Passing that screen would take you to the second IDE channel with the second
> drive.
>
> | Needless to say....it is confusing and I just skip all.
> | My best choice would be to hook up the Hard Disks with from the troubled
> | Computer to the one I am currently using...newest one..., if I really want
> to
> | get the stored Data from them.
> | Thank you, for your time!
> |
> |
>
> Not necessarily. Depending upon the age and make of the various
> computers/motherboards/BIOS, one may be closer to the one which originally
> held the problem/target disks. I say this because of potential translation
> issues, and potential hard drive overlays. The older the computer and/or
> disk, the more you may encounter these issues.
>
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
>
>
 
Re: Computer Failure



"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
| ***"
| MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for it.
| Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post and
an
| outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on the
| center post points to the right one.

The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock was
connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical lockout.
That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might check
inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the motherboard.
Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects of
the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short {removable
wiring}]; ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]

| Also, before getting covering all the steps you have suggested I take
(which
| will take a bit time to figure out and precede), I have to apologize in
| mistakenly saying something about the old computer on which I am trying to
| hook the HD's from the failed Computer. I have stated that thesystem,
while
| booting, detects the presence of the Data storage HD hooked up to it. That
| was wrong!
| I decided to hit the Pause/Break key during the booting phase and saw that
| what was detected was the CD-ROM. Specifically, this was shown, in brief:
| - Detecting IDE Primary Master Disk: LBA, Mode 3, 1623MB
| - Primary Slave: None
| - Sec. Master: CDROM, Mode 3
| - Sec Slave: None
|
| Also, On the Std CMOS Set Up Pane:
| Primary Master : Auto - Prim. Slave: None - Sec. Mast: Auto - Sec. Slave:
| None

Okay, set ALL to AUTO in that pane. Without auto being set the BIOS will
NOT find the new drive, and it will not be recognized and usable by any OS.

|
| On the Integrated Peripherals Pane:
| On Chip: IDE 1st and 2nd Channel Enabled
| RE: PI0 of all IDE's : Auto
| Re: UDMA of all IDE's : Disabled

Good, need both channels enabled, PIO at AUTO, but depending upon the
drives, UDMA [increases access speed and allows higher PIO modes] might be
necessary though the OS support would determine how effective that would be.

|
| I do not know what it all means, but to me it seems that I should change
| some settings to see if the Data HD might actually be detected and become
| readable.

You're right, change the Standard Screen settings for all the IDE to AUTO.
Then check by observing the POST screen to see if its detected, if not then
it MIGHT need manually set [due to age of the drive and lack of on disk
adaptor support].

| Thank you for your patience!
|

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure



"MEB" wrote:

>
>
> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
> | ***"
> | MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for it.
> | Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post and
> an
> | outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on the
> | center post points to the right one.
>
> The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock was
> connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical lockout.
> That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might check
> inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the motherboard.
> Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects of
> the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short {removable
> wiring}]; ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
> disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]

**** The wires from the KEYED lock are attached to the motherboard. I sort
of made sure that the connectors were firmly in place. I did not attempt at
cleaning anything, yet. No change.
***

>
> | Also, before getting covering all the steps you have suggested I take
> (which
> | will take a bit time to figure out and precede), I have to apologize in
> | mistakenly saying something about the old computer on which I am trying to
> | hook the HD's from the failed Computer. I have stated that thesystem,
> while
> | booting, detects the presence of the Data storage HD hooked up to it. That
> | was wrong!
> | I decided to hit the Pause/Break key during the booting phase and saw that
> | what was detected was the CD-ROM. Specifically, this was shown, in brief:
> | - Detecting IDE Primary Master Disk: LBA, Mode 3, 1623MB
> | - Primary Slave: None
> | - Sec. Master: CDROM, Mode 3
> | - Sec Slave: None
> |
> | Also, On the Std CMOS Set Up Pane:
> | Primary Master : Auto - Prim. Slave: None - Sec. Mast: Auto - Sec. Slave:
> | None
>
> Okay, set ALL to AUTO in that pane. Without auto being set the BIOS will
> NOT find the new drive, and it will not be recognized and usable by any OS.
>
> |
> | On the Integrated Peripherals Pane:
> | On Chip: IDE 1st and 2nd Channel Enabled
> | RE: PI0 of all IDE's : Auto
> | Re: UDMA of all IDE's : Disabled
>
> Good, need both channels enabled, PIO at AUTO, but depending upon the
> drives, UDMA [increases access speed and allows higher PIO modes] might be
> necessary though the OS support would determine how effective that would be.
>
**** I set all the drives to Auto on the CMOS setup pane and saved the
changes.
At boot time, the system detected and identified the Secondary Master (the
Storage Disk from the failed Computer) and the CD-ROM Disk, as the Secondary
Master. However, after booting, only A: , C: and D:(CD-ROM) showed up.
****

> |
> | I do not know what it all means, but to me it seems that I should change
> | some settings to see if the Data HD might actually be detected and become
> | readable.
>
> You're right, change the Standard Screen settings for all the IDE to AUTO.
> Then check by observing the POST screen to see if its detected, if not then
> it MIGHT need manually set [due to age of the drive and lack of on disk
> adaptor support].
>
> | Thank you for your patience!
> |
>
**** An additional note regarding the good Computer that I am currently
using...Sony VAIO. 'My Computer' shows that it has a Local Disk(C:), a Local
Disk(D:), a Compact Disk(E: CD_ROM), a Compact Disk(F: DVD), along with A:
and an external Iomega 250 ZIP Drive. When I opened the case, I was surprised
to see the presence of only one HD connected to the first connector (not the
end connector) of the cable. The end connector was open. The Primary HD has
15.5GB capacity. The Secondary has 41.6GB. The CD-ROM and the DVD Drives are
on another cable.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
****
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
>
>
 
Re: Computer Failure




"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5657EB6C-C729-43B3-AE0D-FEAD20FC7AA4@microsoft.com...
|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| >
| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
| > | ***"
| > | MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for
it.
| > | Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post
and
| > an
| > | outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on
the
| > | center post points to the right one.
| >
| > The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock
was
| > connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical
lockout.
| > That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might
check
| > inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the
motherboard.
| > Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects
of
| > the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short
{removable
| > wiring}]; ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
| > disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]
|
| **** The wires from the KEYED lock are attached to the motherboard. I sort
| of made sure that the connectors were firmly in place. I did not attempt
at
| cleaning anything, yet. No change.
| ***

Okay, as I said, it was something I that I hadn't thought of in awhile
largely because these are found on OLDER computers.
You could attempt to temporarily disconnect it to see if that changes
anything.

|
| >
| > | Also, before getting covering all the steps you have suggested I take
| > (which
| > | will take a bit time to figure out and precede), I have to apologize
in
| > | mistakenly saying something about the old computer on which I am
trying to
| > | hook the HD's from the failed Computer. I have stated that the system,
| > while
| > | booting, detects the presence of the Data storage HD hooked up to it.
That
| > | was wrong!
| > | I decided to hit the Pause/Break key during the booting phase and saw
that
| > | what was detected was the CD-ROM. Specifically, this was shown, in
brief:
| > | - Detecting IDE Primary Master Disk: LBA, Mode 3, 1623MB
| > | - Primary Slave: None
| > | - Sec. Master: CDROM, Mode 3
| > | - Sec Slave: None
| > |
| > | Also, On the Std CMOS Set Up Pane:
| > | Primary Master : Auto - Prim. Slave: None - Sec. Mast: Auto - Sec.
Slave:
| > | None
| >
| > Okay, set ALL to AUTO in that pane. Without auto being set the BIOS
will
| > NOT find the new drive, and it will not be recognized and usable by any
OS.
| >
| > |
| > | On the Integrated Peripherals Pane:
| > | On Chip: IDE 1st and 2nd Channel Enabled
| > | RE: PI0 of all IDE's : Auto
| > | Re: UDMA of all IDE's : Disabled
| >
| > Good, need both channels enabled, PIO at AUTO, but depending upon the
| > drives, UDMA [increases access speed and allows higher PIO modes] might
be
| > necessary though the OS support would determine how effective that would
be.
| >
| **** I set all the drives to Auto on the CMOS setup pane and saved the
| changes.
| At boot time, the system detected and identified the Secondary Master (the
| Storage Disk from the failed Computer) and the CD-ROM Disk, as the
Secondary
| Master. However, after booting, only A: , C: and D:(CD-ROM) showed up.
| ****

That should have made it accessible,, to make sure we don't run around in
circles now that we are addressing two or more computers, and several makes
and models of hard drives:

1. IF the *bad* hard disk was set as MASTER it is in conflict with either
the original drive if still in place or the CDROM if on the same cable, as
both are apparently configured as masters. When sharing a cable only one
drive can be a master, the other MUST be a slave [not getting into cable
select issues]. Check the jumpers on the drives and set properly.

2. What OS are you using on that computer and the make and model of the
computer OR its motherboard and/or BIOS [let's call it by its make from now
on]?

3. What is the size of the C drive that is found [is it the actual drive]?

4. Can you access the disk from DOS now? What version of DOS are you using
[type ver at the command prompt]?

5. What does *fdisk /status* from the DOS prompt show?

|
| > |
| > | I do not know what it all means, but to me it seems that I should
change
| > | some settings to see if the Data HD might actually be detected and
become
| > | readable.
| >
| > You're right, change the Standard Screen settings for all the IDE to
AUTO.
| > Then check by observing the POST screen to see if its detected, if not
then
| > it MIGHT need manually set [due to age of the drive and lack of on disk
| > adaptor support].
| >
| > | Thank you for your patience!
| > |
| >
| >
| > MEB

| **** An additional note regarding the good Computer that I am currently
| using...Sony VAIO. 'My Computer' shows that it has a Local Disk(C:), a
Local
| Disk(D:), a Compact Disk(E: CD_ROM), a Compact Disk(F: DVD), along with
A:
| and an external Iomega 250 ZIP Drive. When I opened the case, I was
surprised
| to see the presence of only one HD connected to the first connector (not
the
| end connector) of the cable. The end connector was open. The Primary HD
has
| 15.5GB capacity. The Secondary has 41.6GB. The CD-ROM and the DVD Drives
are
| on another cable.
| Any ideas?
| Thanks!
| ****

Okay, from now on refer to discussions related to that computer as the
VAIO[model]

It appears you have one hard disk partitioned into two, Windows will SHOW
them as separate drives.
Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary
connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM > Device Manager > Hard Disk
Controllers > Primary IDE Controller > settings and resources to view].:

1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the primary
boot partition} as a 15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the
second partition presently being seen as the 41.6 gig drive D to drive E.
The new hard drive would have to be configured as a slave and the first hard
drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential disk corruption
could occur. There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY
specific recovery or other, so it may be larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps,
though that won't presently affect what we are discussing], what is the
actual model and make of that drive?
There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not
compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models

2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to drive
F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see
drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system
settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an
inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is the
case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though it is
not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS addressing
which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause conflicting
system device issues..

3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been set to
always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes
happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting to
access.

4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may also be
running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double Space
[or another drive compressor] used.

5. Perhaps its time to do - fdisk /status - [DOS prompt] on the disk(s) to
see what that shows [using one of the working computers with the target
drive properly configured as master or slave.

To make this easier, pick ONE computer to use for further testing and
recovery attempts. Its not a good idea to switch drives around to different
computers as BIOS translation issues [how the disk is accessed and data is
read] may corrupt a potentially recoverable disk.

The best way to continue is to create a NEW discussion [computer name
{Microtime/which one}- {disk recovery} or {computer repair}] with reference
to this discussion [like what we did for that Office 2000
clean-up/re-installation discussion] with the new post/discussion
referencing this discussion.
I say this because there are now several computers and issues being
referenced in this present discussion.

If * Microtime - computer repair * start that with answers to these
questions:

1. Do you have an old Mono/CGA/EGA/VGA ISA [8 or 16bit] video card/adapter
laying around?

2. Do you have a different case or power supply?

3. Did you check the motherboard CMOS battery?

4. Are you completely shutting off this computer?

5. Did you change out the cables as suggested?

6. Did you, when it started that one time, go into the BIOS and set Ignore
All Errors.

I may have missed this [or forgotten]: did you recover the data off the
hard disk(s) yet?

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
 
Re: Computer Failure

 MEB 3/1/2008 3:45 PM PST


| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
| > | ***"
| > | MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for
it.
| > | Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post
and
| > an
| > | outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on
the
| > | center post points to the right one.
| >
| > The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock
was
| > connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical
lockout.
| > That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might
check
| > inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the
motherboard.
| > Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects
of
| > the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short
{removable
| > wiring}]; ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
| > disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]
|
| **** The wires from the KEYED lock are attached to the motherboard. I sort
| of made sure that the connectors were firmly in place. I did not attempt
at
| cleaning anything, yet. No change.
| ***

Okay, as I said, it was something I that I hadn't thought of in awhile
largely because these are found on OLDER computers.
You could attempt to temporarily disconnect it to see if that changes
anything.

****
I tried that, but still no luck. I also shorted the contacts where the wires
would be placed, but sill
no-go.
***
|
| >
| > | Also, before getting covering all the steps you have suggested I take
| > (which
| > | will take a bit time to figure out and precede), I have to apologize
in
| > | mistakenly saying something about the old computer on which I am
trying to
| > | hook the HD's from the failed Computer. I have stated that the system,
| > while
| > | booting, detects the presence of the Data storage HD hooked up to it.
That
| > | was wrong!
| > | I decided to hit the Pause/Break key during the booting phase and saw
that
| > | what was detected was the CD-ROM. Specifically, this was shown, in
brief:
| > | - Detecting IDE Primary Master Disk: LBA, Mode 3, 1623MB
| > | - Primary Slave: None
| > | - Sec. Master: CDROM, Mode 3
| > | - Sec Slave: None
| > |
| > | Also, On the Std CMOS Set Up Pane:
| > | Primary Master : Auto - Prim. Slave: None - Sec. Mast: Auto - Sec.
Slave:
| > | None
| >
| > Okay, set ALL to AUTO in that pane. Without auto being set the BIOS
will
| > NOT find the new drive, and it will not be recognized and usable by any
OS.
| >
| > |
| > | On the Integrated Peripherals Pane:
| > | On Chip: IDE 1st and 2nd Channel Enabled
| > | RE: PI0 of all IDE's : Auto
| > | Re: UDMA of all IDE's : Disabled
| >
| > Good, need both channels enabled, PIO at AUTO, but depending upon the
| > drives, UDMA [increases access speed and allows higher PIO modes] might
be
| > necessary though the OS support would determine how effective that would
be.
| >
| **** I set all the drives to Auto on the CMOS setup pane and saved the
| changes.
| At boot time, the system detected and identified the Secondary Master (the
| Storage Disk from the failed Computer) and the CD-ROM Disk, as the
Secondary
| Master. However, after booting, only A: , C: and D:(CD-ROM) showed up.
| ****

That should have made it accessible,, to make sure we don't run around in
circles now that we are addressing two or more computers, and several makes
and models of hard drives:

1. IF the *bad* hard disk was set as MASTER it is in conflict with either
the original drive if still in place or the CDROM if on the same cable, as
both are apparently configured as masters. When sharing a cable only one
drive can be a master, the other MUST be a slave [not getting into cable
select issues]. Check the jumpers on the drives and set properly.

****
The hard disk from the failed computer was set as a secondary Master and, as
such, it has been performing well. Unfortunately, that is the Computer that
has failed, namely, the Microtime.
***

2. What OS are you using on that computer and the make and model of the
computer OR its motherboard and/or BIOS [let's call it by its make from now
on]?
****
The OS was originally W98. A friend gave me an upgrade to W98SE. That, when
installed, did not appear to cause any problems, except that I could not get
it to accept USB cards. In time, the 10GB HD started acting up and I decided
to purchase an larger HD. That was a 40GB Maxtor. The software that came
with it caused many problems. I managed to follow instructions and set
jumpers and cable connection as specified. The original HD became the
Secondary Master. Most of my Data are there. There was no problems with all
for long time. It was rather peculiar, however, that, whenever I inserted a
Boot-disk to boot up from, the system would place me in Secondary Maste. The
Primary was nowhere to be found. There was a lengthy Post about this problem
that involved many of your expert helpers, a year or two back. Gary, PCR,
Harvat, but mainly Blanton, to name a few. Bill concluded that there was an
overlay. The outcome was that, in
order to boot up successfully, I had to hold the CTRL key during the booting
cycle and select Boot from Floppy. That would put me in the Primary Master.
***

3. What is the size of the C drive that is found [is it the actual drive]?
****
If you are referring to the Microtime, that is the one I just commented on.
The Risys was about 4GB. (I need to check on that).
****
4. Can you access the disk from DOS now? What version of DOS are you using
[type ver at the command prompt]?

****
I will need to do that, but not on the Microtime.
E. The Sony has Windows Millennium Version 4.90.3000.
***

5. What does *fdisk /status* from the DOS prompt show?
****
On the Sony, it shows that Disk 1, has a total of 58644MB, Free 1, Usage 100%
C: 160002
D: 42641
***

|
| > |
| > | I do not know what it all means, but to me it seems that I should
change
| > | some settings to see if the Data HD might actually be detected and
become
| > | readable.
| >
| > You're right, change the Standard Screen settings for all the IDE to
AUTO.
| > Then check by observing the POST screen to see if its detected, if not
then
| > it MIGHT need manually set [due to age of the drive and lack of on disk
| > adaptor support].
| >
| > | Thank you for your patience!
| > |
| >
| >
| > MEB



| **** An additional note regarding the good Computer that I am currently
| using...Sony VAIO. 'My Computer' shows that it has a Local Disk(C:), a
Local
| Disk(D:), a Compact Disk(E: CD_ROM), a Compact Disk(F: DVD), along with A:
| and an external Iomega 250 ZIP Drive. When I opened the case, I was
surprised |to see the presence of only one HD connected to the first
connector (not the end
| connector) of the cable. The end connector was open. The Primary HD has
15.5GB | capacity. The Secondary has 41.6GB. The CD-ROM and the DVD Drives
are on
| another cable.
| Any ideas?
| Thanks!
| ****

Okay, from now on refer to discussions related to that computer as the
VAIO[model]
It appears you have one hard disk partitioned into two, Windows will SHOW
them as separate
drives.

****
“MEB”, I saw that the HD was partitioned, as you said, by looking at the
System Information pane of the Components/Storage Disks, in brief:
IDE Type 47, Partitions 2 total 57..27GB.
Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB
Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB
***

Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary
connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM > Device Manager > Hard Disk
Controllers > Primary IDE Controller > settings and resources to view].:
*****
Sorry, I can’t seem to find my way around to get to that pane.
***

1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the primary
boot partition} as a
15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the second partition
presently being seen as the
41.6 gig drive D to drive E. The new hard drive would have to be configured
as a slave and the
first hard drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential disk
corruption could occur.
There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY specific recovery
or other, so it may be
larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps, though that won't presently affect what we
are discussing], what
is the actual model and make of that drive?
There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not
compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models?

2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to drive
F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see
drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system
settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an
inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is the
case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though it is
not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS addressing
which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause conflicting
system device issues..

3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been set to
always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes
happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting to
access.

4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may also be
running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double Space
[or another drive compressor] used.

5. Perhaps its time to do - fdisk /status - [DOS prompt] on the disk(s) to
see what that shows [using one of the working computers with the target
drive properly configured as master or slave.

****
You must be referring to the most recent Computer, Sony.
Currently, the drives shown are: A:, C:, D:, E: CD_ROM, F: DVD and G:
external ZIP Drive. All work well, except the DVD. It does not see DVD disks
created and finalized by a an RCA DVD Player/Writer. It will see commercial
DVD disks, but there appears to be a software glitch and won’t play them. I
am not too interested, at this point, to get involved with that problem. I
can easily disconnect both, the Zip and the DVD disks, if that would make it
easier to get the HDs from the failed Computer long enough until my data is
recovered.

More on this on the New Post titled ‘Disk Recovery’ (RE: Computer Failure )
which will concentrate on the Sony Computer. The Microtime is not
functioning. The oldest, the Risys, might have a chance at accepting the
HD(s) of the Microtime, but it does not give me a way to transfer the Data to
other Media other than to Floppy Disks. The Sony might be the most promising,
unless there will be compatibility issues.
***

To make this easier, pick ONE computer to use for further testing and
recovery attempts. Its not a good idea to switch drives around to different
computers as BIOS translation issues [how the disk is accessed and data is
read] may corrupt a potentially recoverable disk.

The best way to continue is to create a NEW discussion [computer name
{Microtime/which one}- {disk recovery} or {computer repair}] with reference
to this discussion [like what we did for that Office 2000
clean-up/re-installation discussion] with the new post/discussion referencing
this discussion. I say this because there are now several computers and
issues being referenced in this present discussion.

If * Microtime - computer repair * start that with answers to these
questions:
1. Do you have an old Mono/CGA/EGA/VGA ISA [8 or 16bit] video card/adapter
laying around?
2. Do you have a different case or power supply?
3. Did you check the motherboard CMOS battery?
4. Are you completely shutting off this computer?
5. Did you change out the cables as suggested?
6. Did you, when it started that one time, go into the BIOS and set Ignore
All Errors.

I may have missed this [or forgotten]: did you recover the data off the hard
disk(s) yet?
****
Yes and no to some of your questions. I need to sort them out.
No! I have had no luck in recovering any Data from the Hard Disk(s) of the
failed Microtime machine.
***
Thank you!
--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
 

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