cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:31:32 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:


>> Also this A.M. the BOINC client is erratic, squegging to 100% processor
>> use, then nothing at ~ 3second rep rate, and the machine's monitor is awake
>> and prevented from going into normal power saving routine (no screen saver
>> is used). Normally the display monitor self extinguished after 15minutes
>> without keyboard or mouse activity. Normally the BOINC activity
>> self-throttles at 80% when not at minimal use (during communication
>> events). I will be looking to the WCGrid for advice on this particular
>> issue, if it continues.
>
>I'm pretty leery about this whole thing. Not the Cancer/AIDS number
>crunching initiative, I think that is a very good use for idle computing
>time, but that the effort or that BOINC would require the ability to
>Remotely Edit your Registry for the number crunching to happen is a bit
>specious to me! I understand that collaborating with these
>collective/distributed computing initiatives requires that you give
>someone or something a bit of control over your machine but I still
>don't see why they would need to remotely edit your registry, and I
>don't know why they would need to re-enable this service after you turn
>it off! It may all be above board, but to me there is something fishy
>going on.
>
>With regards to your folder deletion problem I am now thinking that one
>of these third party services or applications that you have running has
>a hook into Explorer.exe or into the file system and that may be
>preventing you from deleting the folders. I would disable some of these
>services, or clean boot and add/re-enable them one at a time and do some
>tests to see what is going on with these third party services. And from
>this distance I haven't ruled out the possibility that virus/spyware
>activity on your machine could be the cause of the problem.

I've been avoiding a reboot, so as not to lose immediate symptoms, but will
do so presently, and wait for a recurrence. It doesn't usually take long,
and Im still proceeding with file transfers into this affected system.

If I hear anything from BOINC, I'll report, but there's no real proof that
they're the culprit.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:25:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Those are just handle ID's, normal but it seems that Explorer has a lot
>>of open handles on one empty folder. You can run the Handle command
>>against the process or PID to find out more about the handles:
>>
>>handle -p 1292
>>
>>The Explorer PID was obtained from the first output of the command or it
>>can be obtained from the Task Manager or TLIST command.
>>
>>You can use the Handle command or Process Explorer to kill the handle
>>but beware the warning that killing handles may make the system unstable.
>
>
> There are around 240 explorer handles listed.
>
> Apart from the 13 APS080317 folder handles, there are around 200 handles
> applied to another empty folder that recently refused deletion:
>
> L:\Component\passive 1\magnetic\articles mag\mag model\

I don't know, but seems like a lot of handles on an empty folder!

Use Task Manager and kill Explorer.exe and its Process Tree then restart
it and rerun the Handle command against it, (note that the Explorer PID
may be different after you restart it, the PID is shown in Task
Manager), when you kill the Process Tree all items spawned/started by
Explorer.exe will also be kiled. After you restart Explorer try to
delete the folders.

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:29:13 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:25:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Those are just handle ID's, normal but it seems that Explorer has a lot
>>>of open handles on one empty folder. You can run the Handle command
>>>against the process or PID to find out more about the handles:
>>>
>>>handle -p 1292
>>>
>>>The Explorer PID was obtained from the first output of the command or it
>>>can be obtained from the Task Manager or TLIST command.
>>>
>>>You can use the Handle command or Process Explorer to kill the handle
>>>but beware the warning that killing handles may make the system unstable.
>>
>>
>> There are around 240 explorer handles listed.
>>
>> Apart from the 13 APS080317 folder handles, there are around 200 handles
>> applied to another empty folder that recently refused deletion:
>>
>> L:\Component\passive 1\magnetic\articles mag\mag model\
>
>I don't know, but seems like a lot of handles on an empty folder!
>
>Use Task Manager and kill Explorer.exe and its Process Tree then restart
>it and rerun the Handle command against it, (note that the Explorer PID
>may be different after you restart it, the PID is shown in Task
>Manager), when you kill the Process Tree all items spawned/started by
>Explorer.exe will also be kiled. After you restart Explorer try to
>delete the folders.

I rebooted before reading this post, but will follow the recommendation in
the next instance of an undeletable empty folder, with abnormal handle
counts.

By the way, the Regsvc.exe process self-started immediately after
termination, not after some interval of time, as previously reported. I've
set it to 'manual' as suggested. Previously 'automatic'.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:29:13 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>legg wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:25:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Those are just handle ID's, normal but it seems that Explorer has a lot
>>>>of open handles on one empty folder. You can run the Handle command
>>>>against the process or PID to find out more about the handles:
>>>>
>>>>handle -p 1292
>>>>
>>>>The Explorer PID was obtained from the first output of the command or it
>>>>can be obtained from the Task Manager or TLIST command.
>>>>
>>>>You can use the Handle command or Process Explorer to kill the handle
>>>>but beware the warning that killing handles may make the system unstable.
>>>
>>>
>>>There are around 240 explorer handles listed.
>>>
>>>Apart from the 13 APS080317 folder handles, there are around 200 handles
>>>applied to another empty folder that recently refused deletion:
>>>
>>>L:\Component\passive 1\magnetic\articles mag\mag model\
>>
>>I don't know, but seems like a lot of handles on an empty folder!
>>
>>Use Task Manager and kill Explorer.exe and its Process Tree then restart
>>it and rerun the Handle command against it, (note that the Explorer PID
>>may be different after you restart it, the PID is shown in Task
>>Manager), when you kill the Process Tree all items spawned/started by
>>Explorer.exe will also be kiled. After you restart Explorer try to
>>delete the folders.
>
>
> I rebooted before reading this post, but will follow the recommendation in
> the next instance of an undeletable empty folder, with abnormal handle
> counts.
>
> By the way, the Regsvc.exe process self-started immediately after
> termination, not after some interval of time, as previously reported. I've
> set it to 'manual' as suggested. Previously 'automatic'.

Something is going on with the service. I can't see why this service
needs to run and I don't know what would cause it to restart when you
turn it off. I am wondering if this is even the real bona fide
Microsoft Remote Registry Service, some virus mascarade as this service.
Do a search on your hard drive for Regsvc.exe and note the various
locations of the file.

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:46:47 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Well, that didn't take long.

First folder emptied of 6 jpg files, created by
some goofy SW installer, would not delete. Usual message.

C:\DOCS\Demo Album

Would not delete.

handle.exe doesn't recognize the file name with or without quotes from a
command prompt.

Per TaskInfo, Explore has a million handles , none of them referring to
this folder.

Opening a discrete instance of explorer.exe from the start menu, gets the
same response from a select/file/delete mouse sequence in the GUI.

The folder has security properties grayed/checked for all operations for
both me as administrator and for another identity 'everyone'.

The "allow inheritable permissions from parent....." check box is ticked.

running handle -p 1384 shows fewer explorer handles ~40.

5 of those apply to the folder Demo Album, all reading

xxx: File <RW-> C:\DOCS\Demo Album

RL

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:00:01 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:


>> By the way, the Regsvc.exe process self-started immediately after
>> termination, not after some interval of time, as previously reported. I've
>> set it to 'manual' as suggested. Previously 'automatic'.
>
>Something is going on with the service. I can't see why this service
>needs to run and I don't know what would cause it to restart when you
>turn it off. I am wondering if this is even the real bona fide
>Microsoft Remote Registry Service, some virus mascarade as this service.
> Do a search on your hard drive for Regsvc.exe and note the various
>locations of the file.
>

Apart from System32, it shows up only in microsoft.net\framework folders
and in the SP4 express install directory.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:00:01 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>By the way, the Regsvc.exe process self-started immediately after
>>>termination, not after some interval of time, as previously reported. I've
>>>set it to 'manual' as suggested. Previously 'automatic'.
>>
>>Something is going on with the service. I can't see why this service
>>needs to run and I don't know what would cause it to restart when you
>>turn it off. I am wondering if this is even the real bona fide
>>Microsoft Remote Registry Service, some virus mascarade as this service.
>> Do a search on your hard drive for Regsvc.exe and note the various
>>locations of the file.
>>
>
>
> Apart from System32, it shows up only in microsoft.net\framework folders
> and in the SP4 express install directory.

Those are normal locations for the file. After you set it to Manual
Start does it start when the computer is booted?

John

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:46:47 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
> Well, that didn't take long.
>
> First folder emptied of 6 jpg files, created by
> some goofy SW installer, would not delete. Usual message.
>
> C:\DOCS\Demo Album
>
> Would not delete.
>
> handle.exe doesn't recognize the file name with or without quotes from a
> command prompt.
>
> Per TaskInfo, Explore has a million handles , none of them referring to
> this folder.
>
> Opening a discrete instance of explorer.exe from the start menu, gets the
> same response from a select/file/delete mouse sequence in the GUI.
>
> The folder has security properties grayed/checked for all operations for
> both me as administrator and for another identity 'everyone'.
>
> The "allow inheritable permissions from parent....." check box is ticked.
>
> running handle -p 1384 shows fewer explorer handles ~40.
>
> 5 of those apply to the folder Demo Album, all reading
>
> xxx: File <RW-> C:\DOCS\Demo Album

I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
just on C:\

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:32:21 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:


>>
>> Apart from System32, it shows up only in microsoft.net\framework folders
>> and in the SP4 express install directory.
>
>Those are normal locations for the file. After you set it to Manual
>Start does it start when the computer is booted?
>
Not since I set it to 'manual' using services.msc.

RL

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:46:47 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Well, that didn't take long.
>>
>> First folder emptied of 6 jpg files, created by
>> some goofy SW installer, would not delete. Usual message.
>>
>> C:\DOCS\Demo Album
>>
>> Would not delete.
>>
>> handle.exe doesn't recognize the file name with or without quotes from a
>> command prompt.
>>
>> Per TaskInfo, Explore has a million handles , none of them referring to
>> this folder.
>>
>> Opening a discrete instance of explorer.exe from the start menu, gets the
>> same response from a select/file/delete mouse sequence in the GUI.
>>
>> The folder has security properties grayed/checked for all operations for
>> both me as administrator and for another identity 'everyone'.
>>
>> The "allow inheritable permissions from parent....." check box is ticked.
>>
>> running handle -p 1384 shows fewer explorer handles ~40.
>>
>> 5 of those apply to the folder Demo Album, all reading
>>
>> xxx: File <RW-> C:\DOCS\Demo Album
>
>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>just on C:\

There are two hard drives (SATA) in a dual boot W2K/WXP OS.

The first disk with the NTFS W2K partition has 3 FAT32 data partitions (L:
M: N: ) on it's back end.

The second disk with ntfs WXP partition (Shas one fat32 data partition on
it's back end (T used only for seldom-accessed archiving.

The only IDE master cable available is used for cd/dvd/rw master and one
non-booting optional slave ( D: E: F: or whatever, when present).

The previous example showed simultaneous problems on C: (W2K ntfs root) and
L: (fat32 data on the same hard drive).

I'll try a similar operation in safe mode and get back to you.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:32:21 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Apart from System32, it shows up only in microsoft.net\framework folders
>>>and in the SP4 express install directory.
>>
>>Those are normal locations for the file. After you set it to Manual
>>Start does it start when the computer is booted?
>>
>
> Not since I set it to 'manual' using services.msc.

OK, that is how it should be. I assume it now stays off all the time,
it doesn't start by itself when Windows is running normally?

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:


>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>just on C:\

Same thing in safe mode.

I transferred the five jpgs from the DOCS\gallery\wallpaper\imported folder
back into the DOCS\Demo Album folder, and was then prevented from deleting
the empty 'imported' folder.

Regsvc.exe does not run at some later time, when set to manual, so far.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:

>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>just on C:\
>
>
> There are two hard drives (SATA) in a dual boot W2K/WXP OS.
>
> The first disk with the NTFS W2K partition has 3 FAT32 data partitions (L:
> M: N: ) on it's back end.
>
> The second disk with ntfs WXP partition (Shas one fat32 data partition on
> it's back end (T used only for seldom-accessed archiving.
>
> The only IDE master cable available is used for cd/dvd/rw master and one
> non-booting optional slave ( D: E: F: or whatever, when present).
>
> The previous example showed simultaneous problems on C: (W2K ntfs root) and
> L: (fat32 data on the same hard drive).
>
> I'll try a similar operation in safe mode and get back to you.

Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:20:07 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>
>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>just on C:\
>>
>>
>> There are two hard drives (SATA) in a dual boot W2K/WXP OS.
>>
>> The first disk with the NTFS W2K partition has 3 FAT32 data partitions (L:
>> M: N: ) on it's back end.
>>
>> The second disk with ntfs WXP partition (Shas one fat32 data partition on
>> it's back end (T used only for seldom-accessed archiving.
>>
>> The only IDE master cable available is used for cd/dvd/rw master and one
>> non-booting optional slave ( D: E: F: or whatever, when present).
>>
>> The previous example showed simultaneous problems on C: (W2K ntfs root) and
>> L: (fat32 data on the same hard drive).
>>
>> I'll try a similar operation in safe mode and get back to you.
>
>Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
>involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
>different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
>hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?
>
Recent trials involve only folders in root.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>just on C:\
>
>
> Same thing in safe mode.

I am starting to think that maybe disk corruption or that a failing disk
might be the cause of your problem?

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:20:07 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:


>Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
>involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
>different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
>hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?
>

Using the W2K OS, I accessed T: on the second hard drive, relocated some
files into a new folder and was then not allowed to delete the old, empty
folder.

RL

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:20:07 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>legg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>>just on C:\
>>>
>>>
>>>There are two hard drives (SATA) in a dual boot W2K/WXP OS.
>>>
>>>The first disk with the NTFS W2K partition has 3 FAT32 data partitions (L:
>>>M: N: ) on it's back end.
>>>
>>>The second disk with ntfs WXP partition (Shas one fat32 data partition on
>>>it's back end (T used only for seldom-accessed archiving.
>>>
>>>The only IDE master cable available is used for cd/dvd/rw master and one
>>>non-booting optional slave ( D: E: F: or whatever, when present).
>>>
>>>The previous example showed simultaneous problems on C: (W2K ntfs root) and
>>>L: (fat32 data on the same hard drive).
>>>
>>>I'll try a similar operation in safe mode and get back to you.
>>
>>Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
>>involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
>>different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
>>hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?
>>
>
> Recent trials involve only folders in root.

Maybe run a chkdsk on the volume and see if it corrects things. Be
warned that there is *always* a risk of data loss when you run chkdsk,
backup your valuable data before you proceed! You could also run a disk
diagnostic utility from the hard disk manufacturer, the disk may be
marginal or failing.

John

 

[John John]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

legg wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:20:07 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
>>involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
>>different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
>>hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?
>>
>
>
> Using the W2K OS, I accessed T: on the second hard drive, relocated some
> files into a new folder and was then not allowed to delete the old, empty
> folder.

So you aren't allowed to delete any folders at all? Anywhere? Until
you reboot the machine?

John

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:35:28 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>just on C:\
>>
>>
>> Same thing in safe mode.
>
>I am starting to think that maybe disk corruption or that a failing disk
>might be the cause of your problem?

This is a new HD set up in a new system some months ago. Migration to this
new system is forced now by the previous system hardware regularly
'killing' hard drives for the previous W98/W2K dual boot OS.

The old hard drives are readable for data transfer as slaves in the new
system hardware, and would probably run ok in new hardware, if I had
back-up hardware that would still be gracious enough to run W98.

I'm beginning to think that chasing down hardware for the latter option
might be smarter, if the new W2K OS is going to continue be a daily
headache, in simple operations like data file manipulation.

RL

 

[legg]

Re: cannot delete empty folders - until 'later'

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:42:22 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:

>legg wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:20:07 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>legg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:42 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca>
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>I would try Safe Mode and see if the problem exists there. Do you have
>>>>>more than one hard disk? Does the problem exist on other hard disks, or
>>>>>just on C:\
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There are two hard drives (SATA) in a dual boot W2K/WXP OS.
>>>>
>>>>The first disk with the NTFS W2K partition has 3 FAT32 data partitions (L:
>>>>M: N: ) on it's back end.
>>>>
>>>>The second disk with ntfs WXP partition (Shas one fat32 data partition on
>>>>it's back end (T used only for seldom-accessed archiving.
>>>>
>>>>The only IDE master cable available is used for cd/dvd/rw master and one
>>>>non-booting optional slave ( D: E: F: or whatever, when present).
>>>>
>>>>The previous example showed simultaneous problems on C: (W2K ntfs root) and
>>>>L: (fat32 data on the same hard drive).
>>>>
>>>>I'll try a similar operation in safe mode and get back to you.
>>>
>>>Ok, I was thinking that maybe file system or disk corruption might be
>>>involved. The problem is happening when trying to delete folders on two
>>>different partitions on the *same* hard disk? And not on a different
>>>hard disk? Or is the problem the same on both hard disks?
>>>
>>
>> Recent trials involve only folders in root.
>
>Maybe run a chkdsk on the volume and see if it corrects things. Be
>warned that there is *always* a risk of data loss when you run chkdsk,
>backup your valuable data before you proceed! You could also run a disk
>diagnostic utility from the hard disk manufacturer, the disk may be
>marginal or failing.

This is a new HD set up in a new system some months ago. Migration to this
new system is forced now by the previous system hardware regularly
'killing' hard drives for the previous W98/W2K dual boot OS.

The old hard drives are readable for data transfer as slaves in the new
system hardware, and would probably run ok in new hardware, if I had
back-up hardware that would still be gracious enough to run W98.

I'm beginning to think that chasing down hardware for the latter option
might be smarter, if the new W2K OS is going to continue be a daily
headache, in simple operations like data file manipulation.

As it is, the same behavior is evidenced when manipulating files and
folders on/within the T: archival FAT32 partition of the second hard drive,
using the presently misbehaving W2K OS installed in the first ntfs
partition of the first hard drive.


RL