When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Defjr
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Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB
visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work with
(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the PCI
memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old
location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.


Tony. . .


"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:CEF67159-AB38-41B5-90DA-F07EDDDE36EC@microsoft.com...
> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is
> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
the
> hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB limit.
> The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as an
> example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user programs
is
> calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a TurboTax example
> would be for your real return.
>
> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> > On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> >> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
> >>
> >> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
> >> >showing up is beyond me)
> >>
> >> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
> >> can't access memory above 4GB.
> >>
> >> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
> >> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
> >>
> >> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
> >> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
> >>
> >> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
> >> hardware.
> >
> > Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
> > their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
> > situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
> > regarding available memory.
>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"
<tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:

>Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB
>visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work with
>(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the PCI
>memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old
>location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.

In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address
space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised
significantly.

With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit
any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes
of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode
BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Undoubtably, so. Only, I wasn't talking about address space at all - I was
talking about the amount of installed physical memory!


Tony. . .


"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:qhc3049qgmmuv0jeoset5jh0uvicpjrm81@4ax.com...
> In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"
> <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:
>
> >Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB
> >visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work
with
> >(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the
PCI
> >memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old
> >location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.
>
> In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address
> space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised
> significantly.
>
> With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit
> any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes
> of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode
> BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

More like 16TB, but x64 Windows is limited to 128GB at this time.

See the table in http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx.

Notice that there are edition specific limits for both client and server
editions. It can be very confusing.

"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:qhc3049qgmmuv0jeoset5jh0uvicpjrm81@4ax.com...
> In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"
> <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:
>
>>Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB
>>visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work
>>with
>>(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the
>>PCI
>>memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old
>>location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.
>
> In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address
> space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised
> significantly.
>
> With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit
> any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes
> of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode
> BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.

I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do
tests with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and
let us know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.

John

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that
> is reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending
> on the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so
> as an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
> TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>
> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>
>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>
>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>
>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>
>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>
>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>> hardware.
>>
>>
>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>> regarding available memory.
>
>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

The 3.12GB is just an example given in a KB explaining why all 4GB are not
available to the user. The actual number varies according to the system.
3.12GB has become a kind of urban legend due to folks not paying attention
to the fact that the author states he giving an example.

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>
> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests
> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>
> John
>
> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>
>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is
>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as
>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>
>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>
>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>
>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>
>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>
>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>
>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>> regarding available memory.
>>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is
*limited* to 3.12GB.

The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are
installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver
compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the
total available memory to 3.12 GB.

[end quote]

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

That is not presented as an example, it is presented as a fact in the
article. If that isn't the case then Microsoft needs to revise that
article, my ESL may not be perfect but I cannot read any meaning in the
above statement other than RAM is limited to 3.12GB on Vista 32-bit SP1
if DEP is in use.

John

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> The 3.12GB is just an example given in a KB explaining why all 4GB are
> not available to the user. The actual number varies according to the
> system. 3.12GB has become a kind of urban legend due to folks not paying
> attention to the fact that the author states he giving an example.
>
> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP
>> (nx AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more
>> RAM if the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>
>> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do
>> tests with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and
>> let us know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>
>>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo
>>> that is reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB,
>>> depending on the hardware on the system. There is simply no such
>>> thing as a 3.2GB limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that
>>> gives 3.12GB does so as an example in order to illustrate how the
>>> memory available for user programs is calculated. It is no more
>>> valid for your system than a TurboTax example would be for your real
>>> return.
>>>
>>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>
>>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>> regarding available memory.
>>>
>>>
Click to expand...
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told me
I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB of
ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any ideas
as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't use
XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about
corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.

XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>
> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests
> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>
> John
>
> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>
>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is
>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as
>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>
>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>
>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>
>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>
>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>
>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>
>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>> regarding available memory.
>>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

John John (MVP) wrote:
> Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is
> *limited* to 3.12GB.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

*For example*, the System Information dialog box *may* report 3,120
megabytes (MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory
installed (4,096 MB).
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

You're pretty well stuck with what Windows XP 32-bit is telling you.
There is no way around the problem other than moving to the 64-bit
platform, or start yanking devices out of the box!

John

Zootal wrote:

> I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told me
> I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB of
> ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any ideas
> as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't use
> XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about
> corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.
>
> XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.
>
> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>>Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>>compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>>Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
>>AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
>>the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>
>>I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>>issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests
>>with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
>>know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>
>>John
>>
>>Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is
>>>reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>>>the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>>>limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as
>>>an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>>>programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>>>TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>>
>>><miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>
>>>>><De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>>>showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>
>>>>>2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>>can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>>offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>
>>>>>Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>>memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>>hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>>their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>>situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>>regarding available memory.
>>>
>
>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

dennis wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:
>
>> Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is
>> *limited* to 3.12GB.
>
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605
>
> *For example*, the System Information dialog box *may* report 3,120
> megabytes (MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory
> installed (4,096 MB).

Yes, it also *may* report 2.75GB. Read further on down below, Microsoft
specifically states that Vista 32-bit *limits* RAM to 3.12GB. If that
is not the case there is an error in the KB article.

John
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

John John (MVP) wrote:

> Yes, it also *may* report 2.75GB. Read further on down below, Microsoft
> specifically states that Vista 32-bit *limits* RAM to 3.12GB. If that
> is not the case there is an error in the KB article.
>

Yes, it *may* report anything. In the beginning they use 3.12 as an
example (they use the word example), and I strongly believe that this is
also the case in the end, they just don't want to write "for example" again.
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

dennis wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:
>
>> Yes, it also *may* report 2.75GB. Read further on down below,
>> Microsoft specifically states that Vista 32-bit *limits* RAM to
>> 3.12GB. If that is not the case there is an error in the KB article.
>>
>
> Yes, it *may* report anything. In the beginning they use 3.12 as an
> example (they use the word example), and I strongly believe that this is
> also the case in the end, they just don't want to write "for example"
> again.

I strongly believe that the KB article is right and that for driver
compatibility reasons the RAM is limited to 3.12 GB.

John
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

John John (MVP) wrote:

> I strongly believe that the KB article is right and that for driver
> compatibility reasons the RAM is limited to 3.12 GB.

Driver compatibility is about not going above 4 GB, which is possible
when Windows go into pae mode. So available RAM is 4 GB - memory mapped IO
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

dennis wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:
>
>> I strongly believe that the KB article is right and that for driver
>> compatibility reasons the RAM is limited to 3.12 GB.
>
>
> Driver compatibility is about not going above 4 GB, which is possible
> when Windows go into pae mode. So available RAM is 4 GB - memory mapped IO

Even with PAE enabled 32-bit Windows workstation versions cannot access
RAM above the 4GB arena. I shall agree to disagree with your
interpretation of the KB article and hope that a Microsoft engineer
informs us of the facts.

John
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

From the KB:

"For example, the System Information dialog box may report 3,120 megabytes
(MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed (4,096
MB)."

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:%23m0A0xXnIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is
> *limited* to 3.12GB.
>
>
>
> The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are
> installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver
> compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the total
> available memory to 3.12 GB.
>
> [end quote]
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605
>
> That is not presented as an example, it is presented as a fact in the
> article. If that isn't the case then Microsoft needs to revise that
> article, my ESL may not be perfect but I cannot read any meaning in the
> above statement other than RAM is limited to 3.12GB on Vista 32-bit SP1 if
> DEP is in use.
>
> John
>
> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>
>> The 3.12GB is just an example given in a KB explaining why all 4GB are
>> not available to the user. The actual number varies according to the
>> system. 3.12GB has become a kind of urban legend due to folks not paying
>> attention to the fact that the author states he giving an example.
>>
>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>>> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>>> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
>>> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
>>> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>>> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do
>>> tests with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and
>>> let us know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that
>>>> is reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending
>>>> on the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a
>>>> 3.2GB limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB
>>>> does so as an example in order to illustrate how the memory available
>>>> for user programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system
>>>> than a TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>>>
>>>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>>> regarding available memory.
>>>>
>>>>
Click to expand...
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Dennis is correct.

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:%230GW6oZnIHA.3636@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> dennis wrote:
>
>> John John (MVP) wrote:
>>
>>> I strongly believe that the KB article is right and that for driver
>>> compatibility reasons the RAM is limited to 3.12 GB.
>>
>>
>> Driver compatibility is about not going above 4 GB, which is possible
>> when Windows go into pae mode. So available RAM is 4 GB - memory mapped
>> IO
>
> Even with PAE enabled 32-bit Windows workstation versions cannot access
> RAM above the 4GB arena. I shall agree to disagree with your
> interpretation of the KB article and hope that a Microsoft engineer
> informs us of the facts.
>
> John
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Check the manual for your mobo on your options for closing memory holes and
such. You probably can gain a small amount but not the whole thing.

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%23L4Eu8XnIHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told
>me I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB
>of ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any
>ideas as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't
>use XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about
>corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.
>
> XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.
>
> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
>> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
>> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>
>> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests
>> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
>> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>
>>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that
>>> is
>>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so
>>> as
>>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>>
>>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>
>>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>> regarding available memory.
>>>
>
>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

I moved to 64 bit XP last year. I keep a 32 bit XP install on another
partition for those times when I need it, but that is very seldom now that I
have 32 bit Win2000 running in a VM. It's more of a curiosity for me then
anything else.


"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:%23uLCTuYnIHA.1680@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You're pretty well stuck with what Windows XP 32-bit is telling you. There
> is no way around the problem other than moving to the 64-bit platform, or
> start yanking devices out of the box!
>
> John
>
> Zootal wrote:
>
>> I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told
>> me I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600,
>> 4GB of ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has
>> any ideas as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I
>> don't use XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned
>> about corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.
>>
>> XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.
>>
>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>>>compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>>>Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
>>>AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
>>>the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>>
>>>I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>>>issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests
>>>with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
>>>know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that
>>>>is
>>>>reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>>>>the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>>>>limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so
>>>>as
>>>>an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>>>>programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>>>>TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>>>
>>>><miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>>
>>>>>><De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>>>>showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>>>can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>>>offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>>>memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>>>hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>>>their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>>>situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>>>regarding available memory.
>>>>
>>
 
Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

It's not worth the trouble. XP 64 is my main OS on this box, XP32 is there
just in case.

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7DE758E7-7C56-4DEE-B61A-022DD42CE091@microsoft.com...
> Check the manual for your mobo on your options for closing memory holes
> and such. You probably can gain a small amount but not the whole thing.
>
> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:%23L4Eu8XnIHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told
>>me I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB
>>of ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any
>>ideas as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't
>>use XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about
>>corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.
>>
>> XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.
>>
>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>>> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>>> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx
>>> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if
>>> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>>> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do
>>> tests
>>> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us
>>> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that
>>>> is
>>>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on
>>>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB
>>>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so
>>>> as
>>>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user
>>>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a
>>>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.
>>>>
>>>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>>> regarding available memory.
>>>>
>>
>>
>
 
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