Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rahul
  • Start date Start date
R

Rahul

Guest
The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
(guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.

After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
green/orange)

On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
Charge %age always remains at zero.

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Debug steps so far:

1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.

2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
some custom-version.

3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
"expensive doorstop"

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
ago!

--
Rahul
 
RE: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.
Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
site
& get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

"Rahul" wrote:

> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!
>
> --
> Rahul
>
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.

Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
battery is bad.

> Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
> site
> & get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

If only I got a list of spcs. and a standard that went like: "Provided
(a) (b) and (c) hold; the battery will be compatible."

--
Rahul
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Rahul <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
>that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
>effects

Old advice... doesn't apply to today's batteries.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2c4f98-bb8f-4af4-83ae-8500311f50cb@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
>> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
>> one.
>
> Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
> that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
> effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
> battery is bad.
>

That advice is totally wrong regarding Li-Ion batteries...Li-Ion has no
memory. Draining them completely ONCE simply allows the charging circuits to
calibrate themselves to the capacity of the battery. Keep them charged!
(applies to cell phones, too)

Li-Ion is like lead-acid....they get their max life by staying near full
charge as much as possible. NiCad and NiMH are the ones with memory...and
they haven't been used in laptops for more than a decade.

-John O
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2c4f98-bb8f-4af4-83ae-8500311f50cb@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
>> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
>> one.
>
> Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
> that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
> effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
> battery is bad.
>

Li-ion batteries do not suffer from any memory effect. It should not have
been possible to discharge the battery below its lower charge limit (in
practice every laptop puts the zero charge point a bit above the lower
limit). If the OP did succeed in discharging it so, the battery or the
charger would prevent it from being charged (and correctly so - its risky).

I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured
that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that the
OP used up. These batteries never require a 12 hour initial charge in spite
of what some people may tell you. If they do charge, they will take
whatever charge they require and then stop charging.

Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest it
is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery suppliers
out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I know nothing of the OP's chosen supplier, Kahlon, but I would suggest that
the best course of action is to take the matter up with them advising them
that their battery won't charge and see what they say.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
> it is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused
> to charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
> suppliers out there that omit important safety circuits from their
> batteries.

Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and burns
a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the same time,
the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.

When I got this Dell Latitude D600, their user forums were full of stories
about batteries lasting 14 months. I've had this system for four years now,
and while the two battery packs have lost some of their stuff, they are
still at about 85% of new. This machine sits on my desk all day, every day,
attached to a charger, and I take it home to do email and some work from the
batteries. The Inspiron I had prior to this had a five year old battery,
same story. Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.

-John O
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Apr 8, 7:20 am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured
> that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that the
> OP used up.

Thanks MI5!I think that is what happened. I ran the 4 hours on the
initial charge. My laptop can use the battery but my charger cannot
charge it.

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest it
> is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
> charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery suppliers
> out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Rahul <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
>on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.

Staying in business isn't about being "fair" with the competition.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Apr 8, 8:54 am, "JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote:

> Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
> consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and burns
> a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the same time,
> the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.

Yes. I'd do it too from a commercial viewpoint to avoid the attendant
bad publicity. But a competitive market is always a good situation.
Even for batteries. It might not be "el-cheapo" but a "nimble-
efficient-supplier" who might drive the battery costs down.

>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.

Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


Dell very likely has made a proprietary battery necessary. They do
this with their printer ink cartridges and almost any other components
of their products.
They are not unique in this kind of business practice.
A fellow E1505 owner.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

apistomaster <apistomaster@clearwire.net> wrote in
news:7cc405ec-a82a-4f85-a662-8e6e237a6103@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

>
> Dell very likely has made a proprietary battery necessary. They do
> this with their printer ink cartridges and almost any other components
> of their products.
> They are not unique in this kind of business practice.
> A fellow E1505 owner.
>

Ah! I have some company! So they don't do this with batteries alone! Ink
cartridges! Can't be safety issues there. Business issues? Definitely.
:)

--
Rahul
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
news:p83nv3plulhmji145n9vlhl622sakbbdes@4ax.com:

>
> Staying in business isn't about being "fair" with the competition.
>

Yes PD43. That is true. But neither do I have to take it silently.
Hopefully, with the very helpful tips I got here from all you guys and
on other USENET Linux groups I can circumvent Dells "business
strategies"! Hopefully! If I don't have to pay Dell $200 I am happy! :)


--
Rahul
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>
> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)

Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting so
the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a Li-Ion
plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and such.

Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.
Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
either, but that's why we have the batteries in the first place. Leaving a
Li-Ion pack in a hot car fully discharged is bad, too. That's not abuse, but
it does affect their life span.

-John O
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is a
completely erroneous statement..
That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and NiMh
are greatly helped by
draining them.
"Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message
news:06715CDB-A325-4274-8185-87C8FEF795C0@microsoft.com...
> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
> one.
> Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
> site
> & get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related
> specs.
>
> "Rahul" wrote:
>
>> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
>> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
>> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
>> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>>
>> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
>> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
>> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
>> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
>> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
>> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
>> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
>> green/orange)
>>
>> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
>> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
>> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
>> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
>> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>>
>> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
>> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
>> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>>
>> Debug steps so far:
>>
>> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
>> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
>> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>>
>> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
>> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
>> some custom-version.
>>
>> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
>> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
>> "expensive doorstop"
>>
>> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
>> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
>> ago!
>>
>> --
>> Rahul
>>
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>Yes PD43. That is true. But neither do I have to take it silently.
>Hopefully, with the very helpful tips I got here from all you guys and
>on other USENET Linux groups I can circumvent Dells "business
>strategies"! Hopefully! If I don't have to pay Dell $200 I am happy! :)

HEY! I'm a BIG fan of using alternatives. I buy only Epson or Canon
printers because I can purchase generic cartridges for a FRACTION of
the price of name brand cartridges!

Not all printers have generic cartridge substitutes... so I don't buy
them. HP and Lexmark come to mind.

When my Toshiba notebook battery dies, I will definitely buy an
alternative.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Unknown wrote:
> 'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is a
> completely erroneous statement..
> That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and NiMh
> are greatly helped by
> draining them.

Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery from
the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
and will develop an internal short.

Wrong way to discharge a NiCad battery pack. One cell may be
reverse biased. The effect gets worse as time goes by, increasing
the odds that one cell will end up with an internal short.

| | |
________| |___________| |___________| |_________
| | | | | |
^ | | | ^
| |
+-----------------/\ /\ /\ -----------------+
\/ \/ \/

A lot of electronic devices, disconnect their load when they detect
the level of charge getting low. And the purpose of that, is to
try to prevent damage to the battery.

The right way, is to address each cell independently, with a resistor.
The resistor should be selected, to not exceed the maximum discharge
rate for the cell (which is pretty substantial for NiCads).

The right way, is to place a resistor across individual cells.
The other two cells cannot be reverse biased this way. This
requires access to the terminals on each cell, which may be
sealed in plastic.

| | |
________| |___________| |___________| |_________
| | | | | |
^ | ^ | |
| |
+--/\ /\ /\ --+
\/ \/ \/

My battery charger, only takes the cells down to the "knee voltage"
when conditioning cells, and doesn't run the cells flat. Around
1V or 1.1V per cell or so, it disconnects the load. I don't remember
the exact voltage value it uses, but it doesn't run them to zero.

See "Maintaining a nicad pack" here, if you don't believe me.

http://loke.as.arizona.edu/~ckulesa/nicads.html

HTH,
Paul
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery from
>the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
>one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
>and will develop an internal short.

[snip of more info that nobody can use]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

PD43 wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery
>> from
>> the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
>> one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
>> and will develop an internal short.
>
> [snip of more info that nobody can use]
>
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............


No, actually he was right (about draining EACH of the cells individually,
etc), and it is useful to know.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Apr 8, 4:34 pm, "Bill in Co." <not_really_h...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> > [snip of more info that nobody can use]
>
> > ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............
>
> No, actually he was right (about draining EACH of the cells individually,
> etc), and it is useful to know.

I don't contest that... but WHAT is the average "techie quotient" of
folks asking questions here on a scale of ONE to TEN?

ONE AND A HALF.

Maybe.

Those folks heads would explode reading that.
 
Back
Top