Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

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Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:OWIU%23AYmIHA.2396@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
>> it is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused
>> to charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
>> suppliers out there that omit important safety circuits from their
>> batteries.
>
> Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
> consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and
> burns a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the
> same time, the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.
>
> When I got this Dell Latitude D600, their user forums were full of stories
> about batteries lasting 14 months. I've had this system for four years
> now, and while the two battery packs have lost some of their stuff, they
> are still at about 85% of new. This machine sits on my desk all day, every
> day, attached to a charger, and I take it home to do email and some work
> from the batteries. The Inspiron I had prior to this had a five year old
> battery, same story. Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>
In spite of claims of overcharging, the secret to long battery life is not
to allow the batteries to become warm. If the design of the laptop is such
that internal components heat up the battery (even if it isn't doing
anything), then the life will be considerably shortened. In general, it is
adviseable to remove the battery when on AC, if the battery is not being
charged. However, if the design of the laptop does not warm up the battery,
then it is not necessary to remove it.

My oldest Li-ion battery is 14 years old this year and still going strong.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:%23ANYI2amIHA.1368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>>
>> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
>> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
>> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)
>
> Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting
> so the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a
> Li-Ion plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and such.
>
> Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.

Although true, the reasons are more to do with over discharge than anything
else.

> Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
> either,

Why? This is what they are designed for. Fully discharging (without
overdischarging) is no more detrimental to a Li-ion battery than half or
quarter discharging it before recharging. Any other advice on the subject
is a myth.

> Leaving a Li-Ion pack in a hot car fully discharged is bad, too. That's
> not abuse, but it does affect their life span.
>

It is abuse. Li-ion batteries do not like being subjected to heat. Their
life span is a function of temperature. Keep a Li-ion battery much above 30
C and can kill it in a year.

The other thing Li-ion batteries don't like is *not* being used. Lack of
use causes the cell internal resistance to rise, and this can give the
monitor circuit the impression that the battery is discharged whenever
significant current is drawn.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:168fc445-4920-4b4c-88a6-3ae0393bcd42@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 8, 7:20 am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured
> that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that
> the
> OP used up.

Thanks MI5!I think that is what happened. I ran the 4 hours on the
initial charge. My laptop can use the battery but my charger cannot
charge it.

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
> it
> is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
> charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
> suppliers
> out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.

-------------

Indeed not. The really shrewd part is sorting out which is which.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"PD43" <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p83nv3plulhmji145n9vlhl622sakbbdes@4ax.com...
> Rahul <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
>>on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.
>
> Staying in business isn't about being "fair" with the competition.

Whist that is entirely true, staying in business is also about not aquiring
a reputation that turns the customers away. To what extent you apply this
depends on what business you are in and who your competitors are and what
reputation *they* have.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"PD43" <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8fknv3lcrhsuhgaksofmujjtikfmacr5nr@4ax.com...
> Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Yes PD43. That is true. But neither do I have to take it silently.
>>Hopefully, with the very helpful tips I got here from all you guys and
>>on other USENET Linux groups I can circumvent Dells "business
>>strategies"! Hopefully! If I don't have to pay Dell $200 I am happy! :)
>
> HEY! I'm a BIG fan of using alternatives. I buy only Epson or Canon
> printers because I can purchase generic cartridges for a FRACTION of
> the price of name brand cartridges!
>
> Not all printers have generic cartridge substitutes... so I don't buy
> them. HP and Lexmark come to mind.
>

I like my HP printer because the cartridges are easily refilled. And since
they are large, I don't have to do it too often.

> When my Toshiba notebook battery dies, I will definitely buy an
> alternative.

Buy wisely. The batteries from some suppliers are positively dangerous.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:ftgln2$1c2$1@aioe.org...
> Unknown wrote:
>> 'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is
>> a completely erroneous statement..
>> That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and
>> NiMh are greatly helped by
>> draining them.
>
> Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery
> from
> the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
> one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
> and will develop an internal short.
>
> Wrong way to discharge a NiCad battery pack. One cell may be
> reverse biased. The effect gets worse as time goes by, increasing
> the odds that one cell will end up with an internal short.
>
> | | |
> ________| |___________| |___________| |_________
> | | | | | |
> ^ | | | ^
> | |
> +-----------------/\ /\ /\ -----------------+
> \/ \/ \/
>
> A lot of electronic devices, disconnect their load when they detect
> the level of charge getting low. And the purpose of that, is to
> try to prevent damage to the battery.
>
> The right way, is to address each cell independently, with a resistor.
> The resistor should be selected, to not exceed the maximum discharge
> rate for the cell (which is pretty substantial for NiCads).
>
> The right way, is to place a resistor across individual cells.
> The other two cells cannot be reverse biased this way. This
> requires access to the terminals on each cell, which may be
> sealed in plastic.
>
> | | |
> ________| |___________| |___________| |_________
> | | | | | |
> ^ | ^ | |
> | |
> +--/\ /\ /\ --+
> \/ \/ \/
>
> My battery charger, only takes the cells down to the "knee voltage"
> when conditioning cells, and doesn't run the cells flat. Around
> 1V or 1.1V per cell or so, it disconnects the load. I don't remember
> the exact voltage value it uses, but it doesn't run them to zero.
>
> See "Maintaining a nicad pack" here, if you don't believe me.
>
> http://loke.as.arizona.edu/~ckulesa/nicads.html
>
>
ASCII graphics don't work for those of us with proportional spacing.

The minimum discharge voltage for NiCd cells is lower than you state. Its
0.0 volts. Nothing. Not a sausage. In fact some suppliers recommend
putting cells into storage discharged and *short circuited*.

The usually quoted minimum voltage is a level intended to avoid reverse
charging individual cells in a battery pack. Unfortunately, it is the
nature of NiCd cells that they become mismatched pretty quickly (even if
they start completely matched). Unfortunately Ni-MH aren't much better in
this regard.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:47fdc0d6$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
> news:%23ANYI2amIHA.1368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>>>
>>> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
>>> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
>>> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)
>>
>> Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting
>> so the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a
>> Li-Ion plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and
>> such.
>>
>> Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.
>
> Although true, the reasons are more to do with over discharge than
> anything else.
>
>> Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
>> either,
>
> Why? This is what they are designed for. Fully discharging (without
> overdischarging) is no more detrimental to a Li-ion battery than half or
> quarter discharging it before recharging. Any other advice on the subject
> is a myth.

Depending on the brand of cell, and I can't tell you one from another, they
only have so many cycles in them. NiCad will do a couple thousand or more,
Li-Ion isn't likely to survive more than 200-300 full cycles, less abuse
factors. Maybe that's because of the heat involved with charging, but we
have no control over that, usually.

Looks like we both have a knack for making them last, while others seem to
run through them much faster.

-John O
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:47:11 +0100, "M.I.5¾"
<no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:


> > When my Toshiba notebook battery dies, I will definitely buy an
> > alternative.
>
> Buy wisely. The batteries from some suppliers are positively dangerous.


I know next to nothing about this, and, although I'm not in the market
for a notebook battery now, I would appreciate some advice for the
future. How does one buy wisely? What suppliers should be avoided?
What suppliers are good?

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.



Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:47:11 +0100, "M.I.5¾"
> <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>When my Toshiba notebook battery dies, I will definitely buy an
>>>alternative.
>>
>>Buy wisely. The batteries from some suppliers are positively dangerous.
>
>
>
> I know next to nothing about this, and, although I'm not in the market
> for a notebook battery now, I would appreciate some advice for the
> future. How does one buy wisely? What suppliers should be avoided?
> What suppliers are good?
>

Well let's see there is Dell, oops, their batteries catch fire, maybe
Sony, oops they burn too, hey Lenovo, dang another marshmallow roaster.
HP? Nope another cooker, heck even Apple has their share of duff
batteries. Looks to me you buy from someone with a good return policy
that can't afford to ignore you. ;-)
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

Bob I <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Well let's see there is Dell, oops, their batteries catch fire, maybe
>Sony, oops they burn too, hey Lenovo, dang another marshmallow roaster.
>HP? Nope another cooker, heck even Apple has their share of duff
>batteries. Looks to me you buy from someone with a good return policy
>that can't afford to ignore you. ;-)

I would suspect that the computer manufacturer is the safest in all
regards.

Your caveat to find a supplier with a good return policy is probably
the best overall advice.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
news:tmhsv3lddbapmmv0od3dvm1na1kat049mf@4ax.com:

>
> I would suspect that the computer manufacturer is the safest in all
> regards.

Safest, perhaps, but a rip-off. Dell is asking me to pay about one-third
the purchase cost of the Laptop for a battery! I don't know about the other
"big" guys.

> Your caveat to find a supplier with a good return policy is probably
> the best overall advice.
>

Agreed.

--
Rahul
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:Xns9A7C92A3573FCnospamnospamcom@85.214.90.236...
> PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:tmhsv3lddbapmmv0od3dvm1na1kat049mf@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> I would suspect that the computer manufacturer is the safest in all
>> regards.
>
> Safest, perhaps, but a rip-off. Dell is asking me to pay about one-third
> the purchase cost of the Laptop for a battery! I don't know about the other
> "big" guys.
>
>> Your caveat to find a supplier with a good return policy is probably
>> the best overall advice.
>>
>
> Agreed.

> Rahul

I don't know your location. I use Batteries Plus for all my battery needs.
http://www.batteriesplus.com/?CJPID=2824246
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

On Apr 10, 3:22 pm, "Frank-FL" <bbu...@bqik.net> wrote:

> I don't know your location.  I use Batteries Plus for all my battery needs.

http://www.batteriesplus.com/?CJPID=2824246

I completely forgot about them! I used them once... MANY years ago and
was satisfied.

I've steered a couple folks there and never heard of any negatives
from them.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:OaiB3SwmIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:47fdc0d6$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> "JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23ANYI2amIHA.1368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>>>>
>>>> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
>>>> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
>>>> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)
>>>
>>> Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting
>>> so the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a
>>> Li-Ion plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and
>>> such.
>>>
>>> Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.
>>
>> Although true, the reasons are more to do with over discharge than
>> anything else.
>>
>>> Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
>>> either,
>>
>> Why? This is what they are designed for. Fully discharging (without
>> overdischarging) is no more detrimental to a Li-ion battery than half or
>> quarter discharging it before recharging. Any other advice on the
>> subject is a myth.
>
> Depending on the brand of cell, and I can't tell you one from another,
> they only have so many cycles in them. NiCad will do a couple thousand or
> more, Li-Ion isn't likely to survive more than 200-300 full cycles, less
> abuse factors. Maybe that's because of the heat involved with charging,
> but we have no control over that, usually.
>

The official life of Li-ion cell technology is currently 300-500 cycles, the
exact value depending on a number of factors, but assuming otherwise ideal
conditions. That is 300-500 full discharges and charges or 600-1000 half
discharges and charges, or any other combination - it equates to the same
thing. As Li-ion batteries have an efficiency of around 99% there should be
no appreciable heat generated by charging the battery. Li-ion batteries
start degrading the moment they roll of the production line. The
manufacturers are very reticent about making statements on time and
temperature related life matters and many supposed authorities have
exagerated the issue out of all proportion. I have several examples of
batteries that, according to these 'authorities', should no longer hold any
charge at all. Interestingly, they are either all early examples where the
fashion was to put the monitoring circuitry in the device that was powered
and not the battery or they are bare cell packs. I also have had some
complete packs where they have failed more suddenly that I believe can be
accounted for by cell degradation - all of which have internal monitoring
circuitry. I offer this with no further comment.

Ni-Cd officially have a life of 1000 cycles but they are far more influenced
by other factors and only give anything approaching this life under ideal
conditions. Ni-Cd batteries are only ~70% efficient and should get quite
warm when charged. However they don't get as warm as they should because
the charge reaction is endothermic and absorbs that heat. Once charged, of
course, the charge current can do nothing else and they get warm. I should
point out that Ni-MH batteries, which has a similar efficiency get much
warmer than can be accounted for by the current and efficiency because their
charge reaction is exothermic. This is why Ni-MH batteries should be
temperature monitored during charge.

> Looks like we both have a knack for making them last, while others seem to
> run through them much faster.
>
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"PD43" <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tmhsv3lddbapmmv0od3dvm1na1kat049mf@4ax.com...
> Bob I <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Well let's see there is Dell, oops, their batteries catch fire, maybe
>>Sony, oops they burn too, hey Lenovo, dang another marshmallow roaster.
>>HP? Nope another cooker, heck even Apple has their share of duff
>>batteries. Looks to me you buy from someone with a good return policy
>>that can't afford to ignore you. ;-)
>
> I would suspect that the computer manufacturer is the safest in all
> regards.
>

That should be reasonable advice. It is unfortunate that even they can get
caught out by cell manufacturing problems, as we have recently witnessed.

Of course, that could have happened to any battery supplier.
 
Re: Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.


"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:9cfsv3p1cgeua7cpoe8r21tfdm422jgr2d@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:47:11 +0100, "M.I.5¾"
> <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> > When my Toshiba notebook battery dies, I will definitely buy an
>> > alternative.
>>
>> Buy wisely. The batteries from some suppliers are positively dangerous.
>
>
> I know next to nothing about this, and, although I'm not in the market
> for a notebook battery now, I would appreciate some advice for the
> future. How does one buy wisely? What suppliers should be avoided?
> What suppliers are good?
>

The only reliable way (and it isn't that reliable) is by the reputation of
the supplier. Obviously, in general, the laptop supplier is the best
source, though you will pay a premium for this. Battery rebuilders are
probably a reasonable source because, since they recycle the rest of the
battery pack, the monitoring and control circuitry finds its way back into
the battery. The main risk is the pattern battery suppliers because you
have no idea what they have included in the pack or (more importantly) what
they haven't - but there are very reputable pattern suppliers around (and
very disreputable ones).

The biggest problem area of all is counterfeit batteries made to look like
genuine OEM batteries or, a bit more rarely, reputable pattern batteries -
and there is a huge market for these and not just for laptop batteries. The
suppliers of these are out to cheat you and they rarely bother to protect
the batteries. Some of them are extremely well presented, but the OEMs are
hitting back which is why some batteries and even the packaging have
holograms and other devices on them. Unfortunately, when these batteries
explode, it is the OEM's reputation that takes a hit and not the
counterfeiters (mainly because they are anonymous).
 
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