formatting hard drive

[PCR]

Re: formatting hard drive

"attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:60085236-045B-460D-BBB4-81572A775FB3@microsoft.com...
| I formatted my slave hard drive and did a quick format (erase),
instead of a
| complete format. I wanted to put another operating system on the hard
drive
| and now I'm having problems loading it up. It says: Invalid system
disk,
| replace the disk and press any key. I tried to get into BIOS but this
message
| comes up. When I put Windows ME OS disk into it then it says: Boot
from
| CD-ROM or boot from hard drive. When I chose CD-ROM and ran the
operating
| system it got to the point where it says something to this nature:
make sure
| to remove any floppy diskette and press any key to restart your
computer.
| That's as far as I get. Maybe I should've done a complete format? Does
a
| quick format leave the operating system on the disk? I want to erase
the
| whole disk and have it completely clean.
| Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In order for a partition to boot, its PBR (Partition Boot Record) drive
number must be x'80'. Myers has your cure... SYS the partition!

When you moved the hard drive to be a slave on another computer, it
likely became drive D:. Therefore, you should have...

FORMAT D: /S

/S does the same as SYS. I guess you left that out, & you got an x'81'
for drive number, instead of x'80'. SYS or /S will always put an x'80'
in there, whether/not the drive actually is the Primary Master on the
Primary IDE connector of the motherboard. To boot it absent a fancy BIOS
or a 3rd party boot manager, you need nevertheless to move it back to a
Primary Master on the Primary IDE connector.

It's also possible, as Terhune said, you forgot to rejumper the drive to
be a Master after you moved it back to the original computer.

REALLY... it's best to do it all as Terhune said on the original
computer using a Startup Diskette-- to avoid the possibility you format
the wrong drive! Get the drive letter right!

FDISK must precede FORMAT only the first time. Then, do the FDISK only
to change size or type of partition or when you suspect there may
otherwise be a need for it.

| Thanks,
attilathehun1

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

 

[attilathehun1]

RE: formatting hard drive

Can you use a boot disk to format a hard drive if it's the only drive in the
computer? Most of my PCs only have 1 drive in them. Also the hard drive is
the primary drive. Anotherwords, the drive isn't partitioned into 2 or 3
different drives. It's one drive 1 partition and simple as that. I didn't
have a 80 GB hard drive that I partitioned into 20GB of drive C and 60 GB of
drive D. It's all one drive 80 GBs of drive C. That's just an example of what
my PCs have in them. One drive, one partiton that's usually C drive. Can that
be formatted with a boot disk if the primary OS is on it?
I've always thought that you can't format a drive if the primary OS is on
it. That's why I always would take the drive out and stick it into another PC
as the slave and then format it.
Thanks, attilathehun1
--
attilathehun1


"attilathehun1" wrote:

> I formatted my slave hard drive and did a quick format (erase), instead of a
> complete format. I wanted to put another operating system on the hard drive
> and now I'm having problems loading it up. It says: Invalid system disk,
> replace the disk and press any key. I tried to get into BIOS but this message
> comes up. When I put Windows ME OS disk into it then it says: Boot from
> CD-ROM or boot from hard drive. When I chose CD-ROM and ran the operating
> system it got to the point where it says something to this nature: make sure
> to remove any floppy diskette and press any key to restart your computer.
> That's as far as I get. Maybe I should've done a complete format? Does a
> quick format leave the operating system on the disk? I want to erase the
> whole disk and have it completely clean.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Re: formatting hard drive

Thought I already explained this one... You can partition any disk and/or
format any partition with anything on it (though not necessarily with the
tools Windows 98 provides.) You just can't "self-format" a partition using
the OS that is installed on that same partition. In other words, you can't
format C: from within Windows 98.

Anything you heard different you heard wrong. And, I just have to ask... Did
you never, ever notice that others -- people, manuals, anything -- suggested
that people don't normally move a hard drive to another computer in order to
format a partition?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:400AC4FB-2F99-43D2-AFD5-8C5C8DB78D6C@microsoft.com...
> Can you use a boot disk to format a hard drive if it's the only drive in
> the
> computer? Most of my PCs only have 1 drive in them. Also the hard drive is
> the primary drive. Anotherwords, the drive isn't partitioned into 2 or 3
> different drives. It's one drive 1 partition and simple as that. I didn't
> have a 80 GB hard drive that I partitioned into 20GB of drive C and 60 GB
> of
> drive D. It's all one drive 80 GBs of drive C. That's just an example of
> what
> my PCs have in them. One drive, one partiton that's usually C drive. Can
> that
> be formatted with a boot disk if the primary OS is on it?
> I've always thought that you can't format a drive if the primary OS is on
> it. That's why I always would take the drive out and stick it into another
> PC
> as the slave and then format it.
> Thanks,
> attilathehun1
> --
> attilathehun1
>
>
> "attilathehun1" wrote:
>
>> I formatted my slave hard drive and did a quick format (erase), instead
>> of a
>> complete format. I wanted to put another operating system on the hard
>> drive
>> and now I'm having problems loading it up. It says: Invalid system disk,
>> replace the disk and press any key. I tried to get into BIOS but this
>> message
>> comes up. When I put Windows ME OS disk into it then it says: Boot from
>> CD-ROM or boot from hard drive. When I chose CD-ROM and ran the operating
>> system it got to the point where it says something to this nature: make
>> sure
>> to remove any floppy diskette and press any key to restart your computer.
>> That's as far as I get. Maybe I should've done a complete format? Does a
>> quick format leave the operating system on the disk? I want to erase the
>> whole disk and have it completely clean.
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> attilathehun1

 

[Mike Y]

Re: formatting hard drive


"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:%23awea89rIHA.5068@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> In order for a partition to boot, its PBR (Partition Boot Record) drive
> number must be x'80'. Myers has your cure... SYS the partition!
>

Actually, that's a legacy explanation that fits some facts but no longer
quite
holds.

Originally, the '80h' value in the partition table was because the 'loader'
in the partition dropped that value into an INT 13 call for the drive
select.
80H was the indicator for Drive C. The BIOS used to number the floppies
as 00, 01, etc for drives A, B, and so on. Hard Drives were numbered
80, 81, 82, etc for C, D, E, and so on. (And yes, it got REALLY confusing
if you had 3 floppies...) Also, adding other drive types also got things
messed up. The only thing that kept things simple was that systems didn't
generally SUPPORT more than 2 floppies or Hard Disk at boot.

As a result of this, the convention for an '80' in the partition table
quickly became known as the 'active' or 'boot' flag. This led to all kinds
of issues with swapping drives around when they were formatted as
secondary on other machines.

Another 'gotcha' to this mess was the only way to set the flag to '80' in
the partition table for most users was with FDISK, and when you modified
the flag, it would wipe out the first sector of the referenced partition in
preparation for a format. Some of this probably had to do with how the
drive parameters were extracted in preparation for a format.

Nowadays, with the widespread use of special drivers right on the disk
in place of the partition table (originally provided for things like large
disk
support) there is no guarantee what is really in the partition table, or
even
where the partition table is. (Although I believe most still put the
partition
table in the first sector.) Remember, the BIOS doesn't load and look at
the Partition Table, it loads the first sector and the first sector has a
PROGRAM that looks at the Partition Table. Early on this 'boot sector'
including the table was a single 512 byte sector, however there is nothing
to prevent it from being any size at all, as long as the very first sector
adheres to the 'format' and 'integrity checks' of the original boot sector.

 

[PCR]

Re: formatting hard drive

Mike Y wrote:
| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
| news:%23awea89rIHA.5068@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|>
|> In order for a partition to boot, its PBR (Partition Boot Record)
|> drive number must be x'80'. Myers has your cure... SYS the partition!
|>
|
| Actually, that's a legacy explanation that fits some facts but no
| longer quite
| holds.

It happened to me with this Compaq 7470 machine & flashed BIOS (System
ROM Date 7/25/00 System ROM Family 686S4)! I made a clone on D:drive
with BootIt NG, moved it to become C:drive-- & it wouldn't boot! Since
then, David of BootIt NG added an option to retain x'80' when making the
clone. I think it was my case that caused him to do it. But SYS was the
cure Tom Pfeifer found, before the option was added!

| Originally, the '80h' value in the partition table was because the
| 'loader' in the partition dropped that value into an INT 13 call for
| the drive select.

That loader apparently STILL will do it, at least in this machine with a
BIOS updated to 7/25/00. You may well be right that other machines have
found a cure, especially if they allow booting from more than one hard
drive. Mine certainly has no such thing in its BIOS. It shows only "Hard
Drive C:" in its Boot Order Menu, although I've got two hard drives &
many partitions. (The machine came with only one hard drive.)

| 80H was the indicator for Drive C. The BIOS used to number the
| floppies as 00, 01, etc for drives A, B, and so on. Hard Drives
| were numbered 80, 81, 82, etc for C, D, E, and so on. (And yes, it
| got REALLY confusing if you had 3 floppies...) Also, adding other
| drive types also got things messed up. The only thing that kept
| things simple was that systems didn't generally SUPPORT more than 2
| floppies or Hard Disk at boot.

Yep. That sounds about right. It's a case of poor foresight & then a
kludge to get things almost right.

| As a result of this, the convention for an '80' in the partition table
| quickly became known as the 'active' or 'boot' flag. This led to all
| kinds of issues with swapping drives around when they were formatted
| as secondary on other machines.

I believe adding the /S parameter to FORMAT would do the same as SYS &
put an x'80' in there-- no matter where the drive is actually located.
For me, to boot it, I still had to move it to be the master drive on the
Primary IDE Connector. That was to boot it natively through BIOS.

I believe BootIt NG would have its own way to boot a partition on it no
matter where the drive is located, but I never installed that. Some day
I should!

| Another 'gotcha' to this mess was the only way to set the flag to
| '80' in the partition table for most users was with FDISK, and when
| you modified the flag, it would wipe out the first sector of the
| referenced partition in preparation for a format. Some of this
| probably had to do with how the drive parameters were extracted in
| preparation for a format.

It was SYS that did it for me. Yes, FDISK in certain circumstances is a
danger.

| Nowadays, with the widespread use of special drivers right on the disk
| in place of the partition table (originally provided for things like
| large disk
| support) there is no guarantee what is really in the partition table,
| or even
| where the partition table is.

I can believe that. I have always sought to avoid those "drive
overlays", though. I was lucky my BIOS did recognize a 40 GB hard drive
all by itself!

| (Although I believe most still put the
| partition
| table in the first sector.) Remember, the BIOS doesn't load and look
| at the Partition Table, it loads the first sector and the first
| sector has a PROGRAM that looks at the Partition Table. Early on
| this 'boot sector' including the table was a single 512 byte sector,
| however there is nothing to prevent it from being any size at all, as
| long as the very first sector adheres to the 'format' and 'integrity
| checks' of the original boot sector.

I believe you, but I guess there could be some variation in the various
BIOS implementations.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net