M
Moshe Goldfarb
Guest
Re: So I really did try linux today (longish)
On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:00:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
> Lots of you advocates probably seen my posts or at least know that I post
> here. You probably disagree/hate my posts but that's cool too. My laptop
> powered down last night (ran out of battery) so I had to do a fresh
> reboot this AM. During reboot GRUB came up and I figure WTF.... I'll
> boot Ubuntu and play a bit with linux.
>
> I'm sure that 95% of you have your "guard up" already and have made up
> your minds already about what you think I'm going to post. And you're
> ready to call me names or something in return. Don't worry... I won't
> dissapoint you. I'll try not to make judgements and simply tell it like
> it is.
>
> But first I want to tell you that these are the "bugs" that I saw and
> that's the things that *I* and anyone using a computer will notice.
> Between linux and all the associated pieces of software running/working
> there are literally *THOUSANDS* of things that absolutely have to work
> 100% correctly in order to boot the kernel, bring up the desktop, launch
> some gDesklets widgets, etc. There are huge amounts of code and things
> that must, and do work right. But those things "just work" and users
> (and me) won't notice because we're "smooth sailing" and doing stuff.
> What we do notice are any "bumps in the road" that interfere with what
> we're trying to do. Things that "just work" aren't really noticed but
> bugs and things that don't work are what will be noticed. It's just the
> way it is so keep that context in mind before replying with a "*plonk*
> the idiot troll" post.
>
>
>
> Check my email, and update my install of Ubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy Gibbon"
>
> Login, desktop starts up, I go to the terminal and type "sudo apt-get
> update" followed by "sudo apt-get upgrade" and was told:
>
> <quote> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading
> state information... Done The following packages will be upgraded:
> cupsys cupsys-bsd cupsys-client cupsys-common emacs21 emacs21-bin-common
> emacs21-common gstreamer0.10-esd gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
> libcupsimage2 libcupsys2 libhsqldb-java libspeex1 openoffice.org
> openoffice.org-base openoffice.org-calc openoffice.org-common
> openoffice.org-core openoffice.org-draw openoffice.org-evolution
> openoffice.org-gnome openoffice.org-gtk openoffice.org-impress
> openoffice.org-java-common openoffice.org-math
> openoffice.org-style-human openoffice.org-writer python-uno
> ttf-opensymbol 29 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded. Need to get 92.8MB of archives. </quote>
>
> I update this machine regularly (I bet ya didn't know that about me) and
> this was a pretty big update compared to the usual. Hmmmm I thought....
> this would make a good COLA post. I could title it "Another day, another
> 100-Megs of linux udpates."
>
> I was going to post from Windows (instead I'm posting from linux) so I
> wanted to copy the output of 'apt-get upgrade' into a file so that I
> could post from there. No problem, I have a Samba server also running
> linux (I bet you didn't know that either) so I would put the file there,
> eventually reboot to Windows, get the file and post it to COLA.
>
> From the Ubuntu menu "Places -> Network" then I see Windows Network,
> blah-blah-blah... and I navigate to a writeable share on the server.
> Right-click the mouse, "Create Document -> empty file", rename the file
> to "linuxupdate" (since I was going to post about the 100-Meg linux
> udpate).
>
> I double click to open it and gedit 2.20.3 starts up with an error
> message like "Can't open smb://server/public/linuxupdate" I know there's
> still a good number of apps that have a hard time with files that reside
> on "smb://" shares and they only like files that are somewhere on the
> local filesystem. I figure gedit was one of these apps so I drag and
> drop the "linuxupdate" file to my desktop. I figure I'll edit the
> desktop copy and then copy it back to the "smb://" share when I'm done.
>
> I copy the empty textfile to my desktop, double-click to edit it and I
> get a message:
>
> Do you want to run "linuxupdate", or display its contents? "linuxupdate"
> is an executable text file.
>
> This is certainly a strange and confusing message. Bug??? Yes in the
> sense that this should be handled better and in a way that's clear to
> ordinary users.
>
>
>
> So I go back to the network browser app (Title bar = "public on foobar -
> File Browser") to close it. But it won't close. It repaints correctly, I
> can minimize/maximize/restore the app but I can't close it and the
> selected file won't change. It's basically hung except that it repaints
> correctly.
>
> No problem... I'll go to my console and do a "ps -u zeke" and then "kill
> <pid>" the process. (there's no easy to get at "Task Manager" to shoot
> the app that I know of). Unlike "normal users" I'm comfortable with a
> console so I go in and:
>
> zeke@ubulap:~$ ps -u zeke PID TTY TIME CMD 5201 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-keyring-d 5204 ? 00:00:00 x-session-manag 5239 ?
> 00:00:00 ssh-agent 5241 ? 00:00:00 gconfd-2 5245 ?
> 00:00:00 dbus-daemon 5247 ? 00:00:00 gnome-settings- 5253 ?
> 00:00:00 compiz 5255 ? 00:00:02 gnome-panel 5257 ?
> 00:00:03 nautilus 5259 ? 00:00:00 gnome-volume-ma 5263 ?
> 00:00:00 bonobo-activati 5271 ? 00:00:00 gnome-vfs-daemo 5325 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-screensav 5354 ? 00:00:00 gtk-window-deco
> 5355 ? 00:00:02 compiz.real 5364 ? 00:00:00 vino-session
> 5365 ? 00:00:00 bluetooth-apple 5367 ? 00:00:00
> update-notifier 5374 ? 00:00:00 evolution-alarm 5378 ?
> 00:00:00 trackerd 5380 ? 00:00:00 nm-applet 5381 ?
> 00:00:00 python 5385 ? 00:00:00 gnome-power-man 5398 ?
> 00:00:00 mapping-daemon 5403 ? 00:00:00 trashapplet 5412 ?
> 00:00:29 python 5423 ? 00:00:00 evolution-excha 5439 ?
> 00:00:00 evolution-data- 5464 ? 00:00:02 fast-user-switc 5466 ?
> 00:00:00 deskbar-applet 5468 ? 00:00:00 mixer_applet2 5497 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-terminal 5502 ? 00:00:00 gnome-pty-helpe
> 5503 pts/0 00:00:00 bash 5647 ? 00:00:00 notification-da 5652
> ? 00:00:01 gedit 5880 pts/0 00:00:00 ps zeke@ubulap:~$
>
>
>
> Holly crap. What a list of apps. I just want to kill the hung 'network
> explorer'. Perhaps there's the equivalent of the Windows "Task Manager"
> somewhere but Ctrl+Alt+Delete doesn't bring it up and right-clicking on
> the taskbar, desktop, etc doesn't show a "Task Manager" either so I
> guess it's the old console and 'ps.'
>
> But holly-crap, I can barely find that it's 'Nautilus' in this list that
> I need to kill (pid 5257). Is a "non technical" user like a wife,
> hair-dresser, accountant going to be able to figure this out. I could
> (but I'm not a typical user) so I killed Nautilus (pid 5257) and moved
> on.
>
> I started a new instance of Nautilus and navigated back to the "public"
> share on the server. Tried double-clicking on the "linuxupdate" empty
> text file and this time it opened fine. Weird. So I write some stuff in
> the document and exit gedit. A message briefly appeared (yellow bar near
> the top of the document) but it closed so fast I couldn't read it. I
> right-click on the document in Nautilus and select "Properties" and got
> this:
>
> Name linuxupdate Type: plain text document Size 0 bytes (0 bytes)
> LocationL smb://server/public
>
> Crap!!! It didn't save my document. I made all those edits and it
> screwed up writing it back to the server. Not the end of the world but
> still... CRAP. Okay, so I'll open up the doc again and retype what I
> wrote. I open the doc and voilla' everything really is there. It didn't
> lose my edits even though the file size is reported as zero.
>
> I make a "nop" edit, resave the document and go back to Nautilus.
> Right-Click, Properties. Still zero bytes long but that's okay... I
> didn't lose my edits.
>
>
>
> Well, my 'apt-get upgrade' is done. Time for another cup of Joe.
What can I say?
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux.
A world where the simple task becomes a 3 day ordeal.
Your experience just confirms the main reason why people are not switching
to Linux and why Linux still sits a 0.6 percent of the desktop market.
Linux is just too buggy for average Joe.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit
The Hall of Linux Idiots: http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:00:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
> Lots of you advocates probably seen my posts or at least know that I post
> here. You probably disagree/hate my posts but that's cool too. My laptop
> powered down last night (ran out of battery) so I had to do a fresh
> reboot this AM. During reboot GRUB came up and I figure WTF.... I'll
> boot Ubuntu and play a bit with linux.
>
> I'm sure that 95% of you have your "guard up" already and have made up
> your minds already about what you think I'm going to post. And you're
> ready to call me names or something in return. Don't worry... I won't
> dissapoint you. I'll try not to make judgements and simply tell it like
> it is.
>
> But first I want to tell you that these are the "bugs" that I saw and
> that's the things that *I* and anyone using a computer will notice.
> Between linux and all the associated pieces of software running/working
> there are literally *THOUSANDS* of things that absolutely have to work
> 100% correctly in order to boot the kernel, bring up the desktop, launch
> some gDesklets widgets, etc. There are huge amounts of code and things
> that must, and do work right. But those things "just work" and users
> (and me) won't notice because we're "smooth sailing" and doing stuff.
> What we do notice are any "bumps in the road" that interfere with what
> we're trying to do. Things that "just work" aren't really noticed but
> bugs and things that don't work are what will be noticed. It's just the
> way it is so keep that context in mind before replying with a "*plonk*
> the idiot troll" post.
>
>
>
> Check my email, and update my install of Ubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy Gibbon"
>
> Login, desktop starts up, I go to the terminal and type "sudo apt-get
> update" followed by "sudo apt-get upgrade" and was told:
>
> <quote> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading
> state information... Done The following packages will be upgraded:
> cupsys cupsys-bsd cupsys-client cupsys-common emacs21 emacs21-bin-common
> emacs21-common gstreamer0.10-esd gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
> libcupsimage2 libcupsys2 libhsqldb-java libspeex1 openoffice.org
> openoffice.org-base openoffice.org-calc openoffice.org-common
> openoffice.org-core openoffice.org-draw openoffice.org-evolution
> openoffice.org-gnome openoffice.org-gtk openoffice.org-impress
> openoffice.org-java-common openoffice.org-math
> openoffice.org-style-human openoffice.org-writer python-uno
> ttf-opensymbol 29 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded. Need to get 92.8MB of archives. </quote>
>
> I update this machine regularly (I bet ya didn't know that about me) and
> this was a pretty big update compared to the usual. Hmmmm I thought....
> this would make a good COLA post. I could title it "Another day, another
> 100-Megs of linux udpates."
>
> I was going to post from Windows (instead I'm posting from linux) so I
> wanted to copy the output of 'apt-get upgrade' into a file so that I
> could post from there. No problem, I have a Samba server also running
> linux (I bet you didn't know that either) so I would put the file there,
> eventually reboot to Windows, get the file and post it to COLA.
>
> From the Ubuntu menu "Places -> Network" then I see Windows Network,
> blah-blah-blah... and I navigate to a writeable share on the server.
> Right-click the mouse, "Create Document -> empty file", rename the file
> to "linuxupdate" (since I was going to post about the 100-Meg linux
> udpate).
>
> I double click to open it and gedit 2.20.3 starts up with an error
> message like "Can't open smb://server/public/linuxupdate" I know there's
> still a good number of apps that have a hard time with files that reside
> on "smb://" shares and they only like files that are somewhere on the
> local filesystem. I figure gedit was one of these apps so I drag and
> drop the "linuxupdate" file to my desktop. I figure I'll edit the
> desktop copy and then copy it back to the "smb://" share when I'm done.
>
> I copy the empty textfile to my desktop, double-click to edit it and I
> get a message:
>
> Do you want to run "linuxupdate", or display its contents? "linuxupdate"
> is an executable text file.
>
> This is certainly a strange and confusing message. Bug??? Yes in the
> sense that this should be handled better and in a way that's clear to
> ordinary users.
>
>
>
> So I go back to the network browser app (Title bar = "public on foobar -
> File Browser") to close it. But it won't close. It repaints correctly, I
> can minimize/maximize/restore the app but I can't close it and the
> selected file won't change. It's basically hung except that it repaints
> correctly.
>
> No problem... I'll go to my console and do a "ps -u zeke" and then "kill
> <pid>" the process. (there's no easy to get at "Task Manager" to shoot
> the app that I know of). Unlike "normal users" I'm comfortable with a
> console so I go in and:
>
> zeke@ubulap:~$ ps -u zeke PID TTY TIME CMD 5201 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-keyring-d 5204 ? 00:00:00 x-session-manag 5239 ?
> 00:00:00 ssh-agent 5241 ? 00:00:00 gconfd-2 5245 ?
> 00:00:00 dbus-daemon 5247 ? 00:00:00 gnome-settings- 5253 ?
> 00:00:00 compiz 5255 ? 00:00:02 gnome-panel 5257 ?
> 00:00:03 nautilus 5259 ? 00:00:00 gnome-volume-ma 5263 ?
> 00:00:00 bonobo-activati 5271 ? 00:00:00 gnome-vfs-daemo 5325 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-screensav 5354 ? 00:00:00 gtk-window-deco
> 5355 ? 00:00:02 compiz.real 5364 ? 00:00:00 vino-session
> 5365 ? 00:00:00 bluetooth-apple 5367 ? 00:00:00
> update-notifier 5374 ? 00:00:00 evolution-alarm 5378 ?
> 00:00:00 trackerd 5380 ? 00:00:00 nm-applet 5381 ?
> 00:00:00 python 5385 ? 00:00:00 gnome-power-man 5398 ?
> 00:00:00 mapping-daemon 5403 ? 00:00:00 trashapplet 5412 ?
> 00:00:29 python 5423 ? 00:00:00 evolution-excha 5439 ?
> 00:00:00 evolution-data- 5464 ? 00:00:02 fast-user-switc 5466 ?
> 00:00:00 deskbar-applet 5468 ? 00:00:00 mixer_applet2 5497 ?
> 00:00:00 gnome-terminal 5502 ? 00:00:00 gnome-pty-helpe
> 5503 pts/0 00:00:00 bash 5647 ? 00:00:00 notification-da 5652
> ? 00:00:01 gedit 5880 pts/0 00:00:00 ps zeke@ubulap:~$
>
>
>
> Holly crap. What a list of apps. I just want to kill the hung 'network
> explorer'. Perhaps there's the equivalent of the Windows "Task Manager"
> somewhere but Ctrl+Alt+Delete doesn't bring it up and right-clicking on
> the taskbar, desktop, etc doesn't show a "Task Manager" either so I
> guess it's the old console and 'ps.'
>
> But holly-crap, I can barely find that it's 'Nautilus' in this list that
> I need to kill (pid 5257). Is a "non technical" user like a wife,
> hair-dresser, accountant going to be able to figure this out. I could
> (but I'm not a typical user) so I killed Nautilus (pid 5257) and moved
> on.
>
> I started a new instance of Nautilus and navigated back to the "public"
> share on the server. Tried double-clicking on the "linuxupdate" empty
> text file and this time it opened fine. Weird. So I write some stuff in
> the document and exit gedit. A message briefly appeared (yellow bar near
> the top of the document) but it closed so fast I couldn't read it. I
> right-click on the document in Nautilus and select "Properties" and got
> this:
>
> Name linuxupdate Type: plain text document Size 0 bytes (0 bytes)
> LocationL smb://server/public
>
> Crap!!! It didn't save my document. I made all those edits and it
> screwed up writing it back to the server. Not the end of the world but
> still... CRAP. Okay, so I'll open up the doc again and retype what I
> wrote. I open the doc and voilla' everything really is there. It didn't
> lose my edits even though the file size is reported as zero.
>
> I make a "nop" edit, resave the document and go back to Nautilus.
> Right-Click, Properties. Still zero bytes long but that's okay... I
> didn't lose my edits.
>
>
>
> Well, my 'apt-get upgrade' is done. Time for another cup of Joe.
What can I say?
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux.
A world where the simple task becomes a 3 day ordeal.
Your experience just confirms the main reason why people are not switching
to Linux and why Linux still sits a 0.6 percent of the desktop market.
Linux is just too buggy for average Joe.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit
The Hall of Linux Idiots: http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
There may be a few here too who will show the same