XP Death Watch

[Hadron]

Re: XP Death Watch

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:

> "Clear Windows" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4853e0f0$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>> He (Hayden Kirk) is stupid....
>>
>> I could recommend a hummer jeep for everyone, but the extra cost makes no
>> sense for people in the city...
>> Sure it could travel any terrain but at what cost?
>>
>> Having a super duper 64 bit 4 core 8 gb system just so vista can work is
>> crazy.. Most of that power goes to the OS itself anyway..
>
> I have a super dupper 4 core 8GB system, and my 7 year old laptop running
> either Linux or XP copies faster over the network or disk to disk. Big
> a$$ed systems help a lot, but their is a lot of waste of processing
> going
^^^^^
> in. Vista is not very efficient inside. While grandma reading email may
> not notice, performance users do.

Seriously, are you trying to sound so stupid on purpose in order to hide
your other nym?

>
>> Vista is poorly designed and that's why its hated worldwide by billions.
>>
>> the world it turning to more efficient, greener, less power hungry,
>> faster, better designed OS's and computers
>>
>> Vista is the last of its kind... a freak of nature... a dinosaur that will
>> be exhibited in a museum as the biggest mistake MS ever made.
>
> Yep, the next generation of economical systems like EeePC have no room for
> Vista requirements nor its pricing. That is why Microsoft had to selectively
> allow resale of XP to EeePCs. There marketing and engineering blew
> the mark
^^^^^
> on what users want and had to backpeddle on a total XP retirement
> plan.

You're the only person in the history of usenet who managed to mix up
"there" and "their" to be wrong twice in the same post.

>
> But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales, the
> cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half a$$ed
> and business only. Asus and others, different story.
>

You have these figures?


--
"Give it up because going on the offensive, and you are quite offensive, is
not going to cover up your trolling and nym shifting blunders no matter now
many times you re-post the same text."
-- "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy

 

[Canuck57]

Re: XP Death Watch


"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:g33kfp$9la$1@registered.motzarella.org...

>> But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales,
>> the
>> cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half
>> a$$ed
>> and business only. Asus and others, different story.
>>
>
> You have these figures?

Read and weep.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143402-pg,1/article.html

Asus initially release the Eee PC line with Linux only. So, the market
share in this segment was 100%. Which is why MS had to get an OS fast, and
Vista, well, super fat and too big.

So, take a current view of a ratio of 6:4, that is a 40% market share for
Linux. A tad bit higher than MS-fanboys would like to admit. Expecting to
sell 2 million Linux ones this year alone, not including last years sales.

OLPC is 100% Linux. I don't believe this has changed.

Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock, maybe
Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top list
more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure.

Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility
operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end Apple
Macs, which too record increased sales.

You know Microsoft isn't going to want to have Asus publish it's real sales
numbers of Linux versus XP. Linux growth will astound many.

 

[Charlie Tame]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Canuck57 wrote:
> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
> news:eEmRRllzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>> Too late: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>
>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of getting
>> a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too late maybe
>> "Just in time" would be the key. Poor Vista sales are not just the result
>> of complaints, there is a small but noticeable financial crisis in the US
>> right now, we are both in the middle of it. Forecast of $5 a gallon gas, a
>> billion dollar loss of crops which will inflate food prices, layoffs all
>> around and no end in sight in Iraq means that if the Government will not
>> tighten their belts the public will do it for them. MS will be smart to
>> recognize this. People are not going to invest $1000+ in a new computer
>> unless they really can be confident it's "Disposable" income.
>
> Offset by more people working at home, choosing XP and not Vista.
>
> Know one person buying a PC, getting in under the wire but getting it with
> XP and not Vista. Theirs broke and their work does not support Vista yet.
>
>


Well I don't know how many corporations are going back to the dumb
terminal and mainframe idea but essentially that is what we have done
using W2003 Server and Wyse thing clients. There are a few XP machines
around, and I have 2 or 3 running Linux (Debian and Ubuntu). n fact
though for most of the work all could be replaced by thin clients except
for the 3 I use because they have to be able to "Run" things
independently. This seems to make it a lot easier for our IT people to
keep things in order remotely. This must represent a loss of potential
business, and also gets people used to the idea that not "Everything"
has to be Windows. It also means that any old machine capable of running
XP can be used (Even older with Debian) so there is no real incentive to
upgrade anything at all, hardware or software. If retail XP continued to
be available then most would probably prefer to replace faulty machines
with XP, but if one of these suffers a drive failure and I can't get XP
then on goes Linux. Sure you can get machines cheap these days, but most
come with "Home" versions if you buy from a big box store and that is
often no use for work, As I said above, continued support was crucial
but not that well stated, but pulling the product off the shelf with so
much hardware that the new OS cannot use out there is disconcerting.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Charlie Tame wrote:
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>> Too late:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>
>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too late
>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>
>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't changed,
>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>
> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort
> to clarify the situation.

Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support for
WinXP is concerned.

> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many
> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
> reassuring for customers.

If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.

If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for you,
they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer new
machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.

If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are GM's
not going to replace it.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Canuck57 wrote:
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>> Too late: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>
> What a line of feltercarb.
>
> MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps
> revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not
> have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good.
>
> See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences.

Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation &
world.

 

[David]

Re: XP Death Watch

On Jun 14, 9:01 pm, "Twayne" <nob...@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
> > XP Death Watch
>
> >http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/05/27/XP-deathwatch-T-minus-five-...
>
> > Even though it has had its own problems of late, Windows XP remains
> > the most-used version of  Windows. The newest data from Web metrics
> > vendor Net Applications, for example,
> > pegs XP as driving 73 percent of the personal computers that went
> > online last month,
>
> > five times the nearest competitor, Microsoft's own Windows Vista.
>
> > Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important.
>
> > According to Microsoft, June 30 is the last day it will permit
> > retailers and OEMs to sell
> > the nearly seven-year-old operating system.
>
> > [ Make your voice heard. Sign InfoWorld's 'Save Windows XP' petition
> > today. ]
>
> >http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/
>
> > You'll have questions as that date approaches,
>
> > including whether the deadline will drive up  prices (gouging,
> > anyone?);
>
> > we plan to have the answers, starting with this FAQ and continuing
> > through the end of next month.
>
> > How long until Microsoft shuts off the XP spigot? Five weeks from
> > today is the last day Microsoft
>
> > will officially allow retailers to sell the old operating system, and
> > let major computer makers
>
> You're out of date; check it out again.

 

[Hadron]

Re: XP Death Watch

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:

> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:g33kfp$9la$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>>> But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales,
>>> the
>>> cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half
>>> a$$ed
>>> and business only. Asus and others, different story.
>>>
>>
>> You have these figures?
>
> Read and weep.

Why weep? I want Linux to succeed on these things. The problem is that
most people want Windows so that they can sync their phones and PDAs
properly.



>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143402-pg,1/article.html
>

,----
| "A lot of people have been waiting for the Windows version," said Jonney
| Shih, chairman of Asus, at a news conference in Taipei on Thursday.
`----


> Asus initially release the Eee PC line with Linux only. So, the
> market

Huh? This is old news.

> share in this segment was 100%. Which is why MS had to get an OS fast, and
> Vista, well, super fat and too big.
>
> So, take a current view of a ratio of 6:4, that is a 40% market share
> for
> Linux. A tad bit higher than MS-fanboys would like to admit. Expecting to
> sell 2 million Linux ones this year alone, not including last years
> sales.

So these figures do count? What happened to "there is no market for a
free product"?

>
> OLPC is 100% Linux. I don't believe this has changed.

The OLPC is a non starter. And you are wrong.

>
> Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock, maybe
> Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top list
> more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure.

No. They underestimated the EEE. Most people who buy one have NO idea it
has Linux on it.
>
> Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility
> operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end Apple
> Macs, which too record increased sales.

You mean the one here which is predicted to START at outselling Linux by
3:2? Are you really this dim?

>
> You know Microsoft isn't going to want to have Asus publish it's real sales
> numbers of Linux versus XP. Linux growth will astound many.

You're crackers.

--
"What's wrong, (p)Rick? Were you defending the innocence of Hans "The
Linux Butcher" Reiser, and now that he's about to give up the body
you're embarrassed at being an idiot?"
-- DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy

 

[Charlie Tame]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
> Charlie Tame wrote:
>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>> Too late:
>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>>
>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too
>>>> late
>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>>
>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't changed,
>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>>
>>>
>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort
>> to clarify the situation.
>
> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support
> for WinXP is concerned.


Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they
stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend"
support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would
want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people
at first.



>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many
>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
>> reassuring for customers.
>
> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.


Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a
broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot
supply and OEM CD you are hosed.


> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for
> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer
> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.


Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace
lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of
course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next
time I buy an Apple".


> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are
> GM's not going to replace it.

But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it
is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look
at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle
competitors.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Charlie Tame wrote:
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>> Too late:
>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too
>>>>> late
>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>>>
>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't
>>>> changed,
>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>>>
>>>>
>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort
>>> to clarify the situation.
>>
>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support
>> for WinXP is concerned.
>
>
> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they
> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend"
> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would
> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people
> at first.

Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The
LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS going
to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for SP3 was
ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final Service
Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3).

>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many
>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
>>> reassuring for customers.
>>
>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.
>
>
> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a
> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot
> supply and OEM CD you are hosed.

Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get hosed,
don't lose or break your CDs!

>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for
>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer
>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.
>
> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace
> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of
> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next
> time I buy an Apple".

I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will ever
be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically and
economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term.

>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are
>> GM's not going to replace it.
>
> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it
> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look
> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle
> competitors.

Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide or
can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think
Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's in
Business, not Home/SOHO Users.

 

[R. McCarty]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that
area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount
of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision.

Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates
will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the
other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended
support contract.

XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though
XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both
drivers and applications with XP native support.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Charlie Tame wrote:
>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>> Too late:
>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too
>>>>>> late
>>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't
>>>>> changed,
>>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
>>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort
>>>> to clarify the situation.
>>>
>>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support
>>> for WinXP is concerned.
>>
>>
>> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they
>> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend"
>> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would
>> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people
>> at first.
>
> Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The
> LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS
> going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for
> SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final
> Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3).
>
>>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question.
>>>> Many
>>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
>>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
>>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
>>>> reassuring for customers.
>>>
>>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.
>>
>>
>> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a
>> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot
>> supply and OEM CD you are hosed.
>
> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get
> hosed, don't lose or break your CDs!
>
>>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for
>>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer
>>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.
>>
>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace
>> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of
>> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next
>> time I buy an Apple".
>
> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will
> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically
> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term.
>
>>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are
>>> GM's not going to replace it.
>>
>> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it
>> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look
>> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle
>> competitors.
>
> Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide
> or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think
> Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's
> in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Why are you replying to my post?

R. McCarty wrote:
> Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that
> area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount
> of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision.
>
> Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates
> will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the
> other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended
> support contract.
>
> XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though
> XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both
> drivers and applications with XP native support.
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>> Too late:
>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too
>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't
>>>>>> changed,
>>>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>>>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
>>>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient
>>>>> effort
>>>>> to clarify the situation.
>>>>
>>>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support
>>>> for WinXP is concerned.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they
>>> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend"
>>> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would
>>> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people
>>> at first.
>>
>> Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The
>> LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS
>> going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for
>> SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final
>> Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3).
>>
>>>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question.
>>>>> Many
>>>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
>>>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
>>>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
>>>>> reassuring for customers.
>>>>
>>>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a
>>> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot
>>> supply and OEM CD you are hosed.
>>
>> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get
>> hosed, don't lose or break your CDs!
>>
>>>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for
>>>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer
>>>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.
>>>
>>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace
>>> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of
>>> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next
>>> time I buy an Apple".
>>
>> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will
>> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically
>> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term.
>>
>>>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are
>>>> GM's not going to replace it.
>>>
>>> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it
>>> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look
>>> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle
>>> competitors.
>>
>> Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide
>> or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think
>> Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's
>> in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.

 

[R. McCarty]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Excuse me, I've had some trouble lately responding to the right part of a
thread. Wasn't paying close enough attention.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u5Z4tPzzIHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Why are you replying to my post?
>
> R. McCarty wrote:
>> Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that
>> area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount
>> of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision.
>>
>> Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates
>> will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the
>> other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended
>> support contract.
>>
>> XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though
>> XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both
>> drivers and applications with XP native support.
>>
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote:
>>>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Too late:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending
>>>>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of
>>>>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too
>>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't
>>>>>>> changed,
>>>>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014.
>>>>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More:
>>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly
>>>>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient
>>>>>> effort
>>>>>> to clarify the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support
>>>>> for WinXP is concerned.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they
>>>> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend"
>>>> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would
>>>> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many
>>>> people
>>>> at first.
>>>
>>> Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The
>>> LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS
>>> going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support
>>> for
>>> SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final
>>> Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3).
>>>
>>>>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question.
>>>>>> Many
>>>>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or
>>>>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a
>>>>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too
>>>>>> reassuring for customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a
>>>> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer
>>>> cannot
>>>> supply and OEM CD you are hosed.
>>>
>>> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get
>>> hosed, don't lose or break your CDs!
>>>
>>>>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it
>>>>> for
>>>>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to
>>>>> manufacturer
>>>>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace
>>>> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of
>>>> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next
>>>> time I buy an Apple".
>>>
>>> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will
>>> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically
>>> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term.
>>>
>>>>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are
>>>>> GM's not going to replace it.
>>>>
>>>> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO
>>>> it
>>>> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look
>>>> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle
>>>> competitors.
>>>
>>> Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide
>>> or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think
>>> Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's
>>> in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.
>

 

[Canuck57]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP


"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:upKYldyzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace lost
> OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of course)
> because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next time I buy an
> Apple".

LOL. Just listened to this latest Apple/Vista ad.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

 

[Canuck57]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will
> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically
> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term.

That sounds like deja-vue to me. Except it was 1981 or so. "Apple is not
truly threatened by PC-DOS."

Apple sticks to its course, they could someday find "revenge is best served
cold."

 

[Canuck57]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23RDYdwxzIHA.2068@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Canuck57 wrote:
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Too late:
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>
>> What a line of feltercarb.
>>
>> MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps
>> revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not
>> have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good.
>>
>> See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences.
>
> Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation &
> world.

Agreed, but people want a more stable, inexpensive open product. Microsoft
sure isn't inexpensive and nor open.

Sounds like PC professor. "My product is so good, please by my product?".
People are on to this. Any business model has to adjust, Microsoft just
doesn't get it yet.

People will buy what they perceive will work for them. The word on Vista is
out. That is why alternative devices and stuff like Eee PC are sailing out
the doors, often with Linux too. Think, the almighty Microsoft didn't
anticipate the small appliance PC.

 

[Canuck57]

Re: XP Death Watch


"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:g33t7v$fto$2@registered.motzarella.org...

>> Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock,
>> maybe
>> Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top
>> list
>> more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure.
>
> No. They underestimated the EEE. Most people who buy one have NO idea it
> has Linux on it.

XP versions seem to be in stock, lower down the popular list.

But that is my point. On emergin popular growth system Linux is doing quite
well.

>> Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility
>> operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end
>> Apple
>> Macs, which too record increased sales.
>
> You mean the one here which is predicted to START at outselling Linux by
> 3:2? Are you really this dim?

Nope, not dim. I would not hazard a guess if Linux will outsell Mac or the
other way around. Will predict, collectively they will erode MS-Windows
market share.

 

[Charlie Tame]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

Canuck57 wrote:
> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
> news:upKYldyzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace lost
>> OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of course)
>> because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next time I buy an
>> Apple".
>
> LOL. Just listened to this latest Apple/Vista ad.
>
> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>
>
>


Well, my family had Fords for years and I had a couple of them myself,
but after repeatedly fixing recurring problems I decided to go back to
cars that I'd had no troubles with, GM and Chrysler. I will not go back
to Ford for smaller cars ever, although I think their bigger models may
be tolerable. There is no real login in this, I am sure for example that
the new Ford powered Jaguars are much more reliable than the V12s were,
but you know, when people get annoyed with a brand there is no place for
logic...

But as PA Bear pointed out MS are mostly interested in Business users...
well what business needs is reliability not more expense and unnecessary
glitz, and many businesses can how use terminal services to do what they
want so don't need PCs as much if at all. The big advantage Windows has
over Linux and MAC is games, for those you do need a complete PC.

Our local hospital has XP all over the place, but the machines are
actually running a terminal program so those copies of XP are not needed
really, a thin client will do and it less easy to damage or steal
private info from

 

[Alias]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>
> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed.

Only the ignorant ones when you consider that Win9x can be installed
with any Win9x media and any product key.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Re: So help save Windows XP

Re: So help save Windows XP

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
> Canuck57 wrote:
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Too late:
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx
>>
>> What a line of feltercarb.
>>
>> MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps
>> revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not
>> have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good.
>>
>> See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences.
>
> Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation &
> world.

Last time I checked, good public relations and services with one's
customers are a part of a good capitalist equation, something MS and its
ilk is ignoring due to their de facto monopoly which, thankfully, is
being destroyed by Vista and MS' obvious disdain for its paying customers.

Alias

 

[Jim H]

RE: So help save Windows XP

RE: So help save Windows XP

XP= Good Riddance

"cheley_bonstell88@live.com" wrote:

>
> So help save Windows XP
>
> On Jun 13, 8:52 pm, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote:
> > XP Death Watch
> >
> > http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/05/27/XP-deathwatch-T-minus-five-...
> >
> > Even though it has had its own problems of late, Windows XP remains
> > the most-used version of Windows. The newest data from Web metrics
> > vendor Net Applications, for example,
> > pegs XP as driving 73 percent of the personal computers that went
> > online last month,
> >
> > five times the nearest competitor, Microsoft's own Windows Vista.
> >
> > Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important.
> >
> > According to Microsoft, June 30 is the last day it will permit
> > retailers and OEMs to sell
> > the nearly seven-year-old operating system.
> >
> > [ Make your voice heard. Sign InfoWorld's 'Save Windows XP' petition
> > today. ]
> >
> > http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/
> >
> > You'll have questions as that date approaches,
> >
> > including whether the deadline will drive up prices (gouging,
> > anyone?);
> >
> > we plan to have the answers, starting with this FAQ and continuing
> > through the end of next month.
> >
> > How long until Microsoft shuts off the XP spigot? Five weeks from
> > today is the last day Microsoft
> >
> > will officially allow retailers to sell the old operating system, and
> > let major computer makers
> > --
> > called "OEMs," for "original equipment manufacturers" -- to sell PCs
> > with XP pre-installed.
> >
> > Monday, June 30, is the EOL, or End-Of-Life, a term Dell, not
> > Microsoft, has publicly used,
> > for XP's retail and OEM availability.
> >
> > So what's the June 18 date I've heard about? That's the day that Dell
> > has said is the last
> >
> > possible day for its customers to buy a machine running Windows XP.
> > "To meet Microsoft's
> >
> > June 30 last-day-to-ship OEM Windows XP deadline,
> >
> > June 18 is the last time to purchase a Dell laptop, desktop, or
> > workstation
> >
> > with an OEM Windows XP license"
> >
> > , Dell says on its Web site.
> >
> > www.dell.com
>
>