Windows Vista Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such coldmarket reception

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F Oh'Ff vist- A

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Why are people wondering why companies hate vista? Its crap...
let the ignorant home users buy vista with new pcs... it serves them
well for being ignorant!

Vista: Victim of Enterprise Malaise


Windows Vista probably deserves a break, but it won't be getting one
from enterprises.


Major—what Microsoft would call—milestones aren't driving enterprises to
radically change their Vista adoption plans. Even I'm surprised. I
expected the release of Windows Vista Service Pack 1 or the end of
Windows XP OEM sales to mean something for Vista adoption. Nope.

If Vista were a person, it might have an insecurity complex from all the
rejection—and for good reason. Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft
operating system seen such cool market reception. Based on a recent
eWEEK survey of more than 400 IT decision makers, enterprises aren't
lessening their resistance, even when there is good reason.

Service Pack 1 is typically a milestone for any Windows operating
system, the point where businesses rush their deployments. But nearly
three quarters of IT decision makers said that SP1 would have no affect
on their Vista adoption plans. Based on two separate questions, IT
organizations expect to have anywhere from 4 percent to as much as 9
percent of their PCs running Vista by year's end—25 months after release
to businesses.

Nearly 50 percent of IT managers said that Windows XP's end of
mainstream OEM distribution would have no affect on Vista adoption
plans. Still, 28 percent said that XP's end would accelerate their
adoption plans. That trends nicely with other data. IT managers said
that 27 percent of their PCs purchased in the next year would be with
Windows Vista. Microsoft largely pulled Windows XP from the OEM channel
on June 30.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception


Said without regard to content:

It's kind of ... "strange" to repost Joe Wilcox's work and not credit it.
I'd feel the same way if it was some awesome Rah Rah story, too. Joe worked
hard to write that article, and it just seems disrespectful not to
acknowledge his efforts.

--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

zachd [MSFT] wrote:
> Said without regard to content:
>
> It's kind of ... "strange" to repost Joe Wilcox's work and not credit it.
> I'd feel the same way if it was some awesome Rah Rah story, too. Joe worked
> hard to write that article, and it just seems disrespectful not to
> acknowledge his efforts.
>

I usually post links to the article...

the only time I have not posted a link was this time that I forgot.. and
guess what?

A smart allek called Zached notice this single time, and came running
along like a buffoon to complain!

This newsgroup is full of jerks!

so here is your link...

http://keznews.com/4664_Vista:_Victim_of_Enterprise_Malaise

You remind me of the village idiots in here,



when I post links Bill Yanaire complains that I am just copy pasting..

when I post articles Frank complains that its too much info

I say F@ck them all!
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception


I'm sorry if that came off as a strong rebuke - I was trying to make sense
of what I thought were your words (the missing Wilcox context added a lot of
ease of reading comprehension) and it definitely seemed like some missing
context was missing, which is why I did a quick search for what I found out
to be the article title.

One sweet solution would be, regardless of the Pro or Con nature of the
article in question, just not to repost stuff people can find elsewhere and
instead concentrate on either directly participating in the newsgroup or
having your own independent discussions. Imagine if everybody just decided
to post their favorite Vista-related articles of the day - that'd further
destroy any potential value in the newsgroup.

If you're really interested in U*IX, there's tons of great projects that
could use some dev or test or PM guidance or time.
If you're really interested in making Windows better, help people like me
delve into actual users issues that could be fixed. Scrolling through flame
wars (or pro/can web article regurgitation) to connect to users means that
it's highly likely that interesting issues are going to be lost in the
shuffle.
If you're really interested in just making fun of people, there's tons of
alt.*.advocacy newsgroups that would be better for you to camp out in.

Respectfully,
-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--
"F Oh'Ff vist- A" <Mitch@niene.de> wrote in message
news:487fea5c$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
> zachd [MSFT] wrote:
>> Said without regard to content:
>>
>> It's kind of ... "strange" to repost Joe Wilcox's work and not credit it.
>> I'd feel the same way if it was some awesome Rah Rah story, too. Joe
>> worked hard to write that article, and it just seems disrespectful not to
>> acknowledge his efforts.
>>
>
> I usually post links to the article...
>
> the only time I have not posted a link was this time that I forgot.. and
> guess what?
>
> A smart allek called Zached notice this single time, and came running
> along like a buffoon to complain!
>
> This newsgroup is full of jerks!
>
> so here is your link...
>
> http://keznews.com/4664_Vista:_Victim_of_Enterprise_Malaise
>
> You remind me of the village idiots in here,
>
>
>
> when I post links Bill Yanaire complains that I am just copy pasting..
>
> when I post articles Frank complains that its too much info
>
> I say F@ck them all!
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such coldmarket reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such coldmarket reception


I've seen plenty of companies turning to Vista.

Fictional articles like this are fuel for the computer illiterate who
love to bash Vista. One day when they get their own system and don't
have to wait for mommy or daddy to allow them to use their systems, they
will finally get a chance to use a real OS instead of the toys they are
given to use.

Vista works...get over it.


--
joel406
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

zachd [MSFT] wrote:

>
> One sweet solution would be, regardless of the Pro or Con nature of the
> article in question, just not to repost stuff people can find elsewhere and
> instead concentrate on either directly participating in the newsgroup or
> having your own independent discussions. Imagine if everybody just decided
> to post their favorite Vista-related articles of the day - that'd further
> destroy any potential value in the newsgroup.
>


Request denied!!!! As you may see, I am not using the Microsoft news
server, and I do this on purpose because I dont want to follow their
"guidelines" in a newsgroup. A newsgroup is a NEWS-GROUP, where you
read.. dah... news?

> that'd further
> destroy any potential value in the newsgroup.

Thats funny.. Vista has no value.. how do you expect this newsgroup to
be worth more?

This newsgroup is the worst that microsoft has, trolls post all day and
night, people fight, insults fly around all day and night, because guess
what? Vista is crap and it attracts morons! (see 3 stooges, frank,
yanaire and spanky)

Let me tell you my version of what this newsgroup is all about.

Primary theme of posts:

1) warn everyone that vista is a pile of crap and that they should avoid
it at all cost

2) Post news that support this from all over the world (you wont find
much positive articles about vista anyway.. everyone hates it).

3) Insult vista on a daily basis, as much as you can. Its crap and this
fact must be archived in google groups so that people will find this
information when searching. Again to save more people from vista.

Secondary:

4) If by the way you know a solution for a problem of a poor vista
victim you may want to help if you are in the mood. In general helping
people with vista problems is wasted time.. You should try to explain to
them that they should switch to XP MACOSX or LINUX as fast as possible.
By helping them you are postponing their suffering and inviting future
problems with vista. I prefer to be clear that vista is crap and it
should be avoided.

Let me make this clear.. this is a vista.general NEWSGROUP that is not
moderated. As long as what you post is vista related you can post it.
There is no restriction..
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such coldmarket reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such coldmarket reception

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:34:11 -0500, joel406 <guest@unknown-email.com>
wrote:

>
>I've seen plenty of companies turning to Vista.
>
>Fictional articles like this are fuel for the computer illiterate who
>love to bash Vista. One day when they get their own system and don't
>have to wait for mommy or daddy to allow them to use their systems, they
>will finally get a chance to use a real OS instead of the toys they are
>given to use.
>
>Vista works...get over it.

Is 406 your inmate number?

As far as computer illiterates, they FLOCK to Vista and foolishly sing
it's praises because the oafs don't know any better.

Exhibit A Frank
Exhibit B Yanaire
Exhibit C Spanky deMonkey

The letter D is available, you want to claim it?
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception


"F Oh'Ff vist- A" <Mitch@niene.de> wrote in message
news:487ffab5@newsgate.x-privat.org...
> Request denied!!!! As you may see, I am not using the Microsoft news
> server, and I do this on purpose because I dont want to follow their
> "guidelines" in a newsgroup. A newsgroup is a NEWS-GROUP, where you read..
> dah... news?

Yup, been on UseNet since about 92, so I'm very familiar with the stupidity
of UseNet. alt.* != microsoft.*

I think you and both agree that newsgroups are a pathetic communication
mechanism. I'm not arguing that point. If it was up to me, the servers
would be locked down to eliminate trolling/flaming. It's not up to me,
though, so the average, really confused, user suffers so trolls can have
their fun.

> > that'd further
> > destroy any potential value in the newsgroup.

> Thats funny.. Vista has no value.. how do you expect this newsgroup to be
> worth more?

At the least, evidently Vista gives you a valuable way to spend moments of
your life, so evidently you agree it's not all bad. ;-)

OS advocacy is boring as hell. I grew up vehemently anti-Microsoft and
changed my major in college because I refused to work on Win32. Consider me
versed in your arguments. Consider me also in a frickin' prime position to
make awesome and helpful changes that regularly benefit thousands if not
millions of users. Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to solution
suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling through
newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.

Also, I've got plenty of friends in the right places. We get constructive
dialogs going on here, I'm much more incented to proactively drive yet more
goodness. We wallow in flame wars and stupidity, I'm much more liable to
miss good stuff and/or care less about the troller's concerns.

You're not even in the same league as other people, so don't sweat any
perceived insult here. I'm just explaining my position of "Wow Wouldn't It
Be Great If An Actual Senior Developer At Microsoft Could (Would?) Deal With
Average User Concerns/Issues As Opposed To Accidentally Being In
Alt.OS.Vista.Advocacy?"

> This newsgroup is the worst that microsoft has, trolls post all day and
> night, people fight, insults fly around all day and night, because guess
> what? Vista is crap and it attracts morons!

If you actually read what's going, those wars have nothing to do with Vista,
really. It's just their way of avoiding therapy. Don't blame the gathering
area for the people that gather there. ;-)

> Let me tell you my version of what this newsgroup is all about.
> 2) Post news that support this from all over the world (you wont find much
> positive articles about vista anyway.. everyone hates it).

It's almost like sensationalism drives eyeballs, but that couldn't possibly
be true. ;-)

I follow up on asome of the articles dealing with stuff I know about. Most
of the ones involving stuff I'm involved with have tended to be confusions
or half-truths. That's neither here nor there, but -- read with your eyes
open.

^-- this is why knowing actual article sources is useful to me

Then again each and every failure of any kind is clearly a failure, and it's
all unacceptable to me. We're on the same page there, I just actually want
to figure out stuff and solve it. A divide by zero crash in a file splitter
might not be interesting to you, but maybe it benefits some third party
project you care about and accidentally benefits you down the road. The net
net is that most everybody benefits from me and others like me.

> 3) Insult vista on a daily basis, as much as you can. Its crap and this
> fact must be archived in google groups so that people will find this
> information when searching. Again to save more people from vista.

Alternatively: if there are actual problems, people like me can investigate
them, root-cause them, and either fix them or get them fixed by the
responsible company.

Without investigation, claims of "it's crap" get discredited as bogus or
rumor or unfounded over time. Isn't it more fun to have exciting actual
bugs/problems to point out? I help you by tracking stuff down. ;-)

> 4) If by the way you know a solution for a problem of a poor ...

^-- This is just global logic. Almost everybody dealing with any problem
they can't solve gets frustrated and angry quickly. If you're versed with
online tech support, you should know that. So there's really not any value
to be gained from making generic assessments of places where sad confused
people go.

But hey, I'd rather light a candle than curse the darkness.

Off to do more good things now. Peace.

Respectfully,
-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
RE: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such co

RE: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such co

I Agree With You 100%, Windows Vista Is Actually Windows ME The 2nd, Just FYI.

"F Oh'Ff vist- A" wrote:

>
> Why are people wondering why companies hate vista? Its crap...
> let the ignorant home users buy vista with new pcs... it serves them
> well for being ignorant!
>
> Vista: Victim of Enterprise Malaise
>
>
> Windows Vista probably deserves a break, but it won't be getting one
> from enterprises.
>
>
> Major—what Microsoft would call—milestones aren't driving enterprises to
> radically change their Vista adoption plans. Even I'm surprised. I
> expected the release of Windows Vista Service Pack 1 or the end of
> Windows XP OEM sales to mean something for Vista adoption. Nope.
>
> If Vista were a person, it might have an insecurity complex from all the
> rejection—and for good reason. Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft
> operating system seen such cool market reception. Based on a recent
> eWEEK survey of more than 400 IT decision makers, enterprises aren't
> lessening their resistance, even when there is good reason.
>
> Service Pack 1 is typically a milestone for any Windows operating
> system, the point where businesses rush their deployments. But nearly
> three quarters of IT decision makers said that SP1 would have no affect
> on their Vista adoption plans. Based on two separate questions, IT
> organizations expect to have anywhere from 4 percent to as much as 9
> percent of their PCs running Vista by year's end—25 months after release
> to businesses.
>
> Nearly 50 percent of IT managers said that Windows XP's end of
> mainstream OEM distribution would have no affect on Vista adoption
> plans. Still, 28 percent said that XP's end would accelerate their
> adoption plans. That trends nicely with other data. IT managers said
> that 27 percent of their PCs purchased in the next year would be with
> Windows Vista. Microsoft largely pulled Windows XP from the OEM channel
> on June 30.
>
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Our #1 loser wrote:

<---insane diatribe rage rant deleted as a public service----->

Ahhh...what's wrong capin' crunch? Got your panties all in a bunch cause
Vista is a huge success and your Vista hate campaign is complete and
utter failure...just like you are?
Is that's what's stuck in your craw, little loser?
Well, just remember, Vista is and you're not!...LOL!
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcoldmarket reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcoldmarket reception

Ringmaster wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:34:11 -0500, joel406 <guest@unknown-email.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I've seen plenty of companies turning to Vista.
>>
>>Fictional articles like this are fuel for the computer illiterate who
>>love to bash Vista. One day when they get their own system and don't
>>have to wait for mommy or daddy to allow them to use their systems, they
>>will finally get a chance to use a real OS instead of the toys they are
>>given to use.
>>
>>Vista works...get over it.
>
>
> Is 406 your inmate number?

Damn, you've proly got an active list of inmate numbers right?
Tell us, what is your number and what is bubba's?
>
> As far as computer illiterates, they FLOCK to Vista and foolishly sing
> it's praises because the oafs don't know any better.

No, that's only the excuse incompetent idiot moron fool's like yolu use
who can't get their one little install of Vista to run properly.
>
> Exhibit A Frank
> Exhibit B Yanaire
> Exhibit C Spanky deMonkey
>
> The letter D is available, you want to claim it?

Oh the letter D is all your's...it stands for drunkard....mr drunken
lying pig!...LOL!
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

In article <OY95AfI6IHA.4468@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,
zachd [MSFT] <zachd@nomailplz.online.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>Off to do more good things now. Peace.
>

Wow. A saint, AND humble, too. 1/2 :-)
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

> Respectfully,
> -Zach

> I think you and both agree that newsgroups are a pathetic communication
> mechanism. I'm not arguing that point. If it was up to me, the servers
> would be locked down to eliminate trolling/flaming. It's not up to me,
> though, so the average, really confused, user suffers so trolls can have
> their fun.

I totally disagree with you.

Newsgroups are a wonderful way of communication, idea and information
sharing.


> If you actually read what's going, those wars have nothing to do with
Vista,
> really. It's just their way of avoiding therapy. Don't blame the
gathering
> area for the people that gather there. ;-)

You have not been watching closely. The wars started all about vista...
Its the fact that vista is so bad it creates a polarizing effect and
controversy.. since this controversy cannot be resolved. since it seems
that some people in here are diehard fanboys that close their ears and
dance at their own drumbeat, the trolls end up insulting each other day
and night. Yes vista has created a lot of hate and anger.. and its all
vista's fault. Has it been very good, there would be no real reason for
controversy.

>Alternatively: if there are actual problems, people like me can
>investigate
>them, root-cause them, and either fix them or get them fixed by the
>responsible company.


You and Microsoft, should realize (and I believe that MSFT has realized
this now at last) that when something is so bad as vista, its better to
just go on to the next version as fast as possible and correct the
problems in the next version, than spend time redesigning a failed OS
like vista.
Even with SP1 no company really wants it.. the only people who get it
actually are the poor fellows that get it shoved down their throats with
a new computer, and are ignorant enough to think that "new is better"
applies to this horrible product.

Thus no effort should be made to fix vista. I say lets KILL it, get
windows7 out and offer a free upgrade to anyone who has & hates vista
and humbly ask for the worlds forgiveness for creating such a monstrous
stupid OS.

>But hey, I'd rather light a candle than curse the darkness.


Sure, but you must create contrast in order to have light, since there
is no light without dark. I am more effective in creating light than
you, because I know darkness so well. I know why vista has created so
much pain, and I think its already dead. I urge people to go on without
it and find better alternatives. You have to say no to something in
order to say yes to another... not be like you who keeps on saying yes
to everything.

That might at first look positive ... but by universal law there must be
negative side to it. Since you are not in control of the negative side,
as it seems, it will creep in where you dont expect it. Think now and
you will see that I am right. If you have good enough perception.

I have a deep philosophy in every action. When I say vista for example
is crap, i say it because of deep understanding of how much damage its
doing to the world. Im not just some stupid guy on the internet. That
would be Frank, this newsgroups village idiot.

>Off to do more good things now. Peace.

I am dedicated in bringing light and hope to the world.. and I work for
this every day... so off I am too, to make a difference.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

"F Oh'Ff vist- A" <Mitch@niene.de> wrote in message
news:487fe178$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>
> Why are people wondering why companies hate vista? Its crap...
> let the ignorant home users buy vista with new pcs... it serves them well
> for being ignorant!
>
> Vista: Victim of Enterprise Malaise
>
>
> Windows Vista probably deserves a break, but it won't be getting one from
> enterprises.
>
>
> Major—what Microsoft would call—milestones aren't driving enterprises to
> radically change their Vista adoption plans. Even I'm surprised. I
> expected the release of Windows Vista Service Pack 1 or the end of Windows
> XP OEM sales to mean something for Vista adoption. Nope.
>
> If Vista were a person, it might have an insecurity complex from all the
> rejection—and for good reason. Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft
> operating system seen such cool market reception. Based on a recent eWEEK
> survey of more than 400 IT decision makers, enterprises aren't lessening
> their resistance, even when there is good reason.
>
> Service Pack 1 is typically a milestone for any Windows operating system,
> the point where businesses rush their deployments. But nearly three
> quarters of IT decision makers said that SP1 would have no affect on their
> Vista adoption plans. Based on two separate questions, IT organizations
> expect to have anywhere from 4 percent to as much as 9 percent of their
> PCs running Vista by year's end—25 months after release to businesses.
>
> Nearly 50 percent of IT managers said that Windows XP's end of mainstream
> OEM distribution would have no affect on Vista adoption plans. Still, 28
> percent said that XP's end would accelerate their adoption plans. That
> trends nicely with other data. IT managers said that 27 percent of their
> PCs purchased in the next year would be with Windows Vista. Microsoft
> largely pulled Windows XP from the OEM channel on June 30.

I can make it work, but even when it is working exactly as designed, I don't
like it.
It takes way too much tuning to get it to interact with XP boxes properly
and there is no way I would inflict Vista on everyone at the same time.
There aren't enough hours in the day to put out all the fires that would
cause.
Even when working properly, I see nothing Vista offers that I don't already
have in XP.
They say extra security, I say extra bologna.
To purposefully design an OS to be irritating should be a crime. UAC does
just that, and on purpose (by MS own admission).
That is probably one of the worst implementations of a good idea I have ever
seen.
Hi MS Bob, it's been a long time...

I just plain don't like how Vista works. So the 250 or so machines I manage
won't be migrating.
I made that clear enough during Beta, but the developers knew what they
wanted, and that is what they delivered.
It seems whatever I liked, they removed (couldn't make it work?) or 'fixed'
in such a way that I disliked it.

I saw that article elsewhere, a foornote or such to give proper credit would
be appropriate.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcoldmarket reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcoldmarket reception

joel406 wrote:
> I've seen plenty of companies turning to Vista.
>
> Fictional articles like this are fuel for the computer illiterate who
> love to bash Vista. One day when they get their own system and don't
> have to wait for mommy or daddy to allow them to use their systems, they
> will finally get a chance to use a real OS instead of the toys they are
> given to use.
>
> Vista works...get over it.
>
>

The difference between the wow of Vista and the wow of Ubuntu:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ

Alias
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:38:28 -0700, "zachd [MSFT]"
<zachd@nomailplz.online.microsoft.com> wrote:

>
>"F Oh'Ff vist- A" <Mitch@niene.de> wrote in message
>news:487ffab5@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>> Request denied!!!! As you may see, I am not using the Microsoft news
>> server, and I do this on purpose because I dont want to follow their
>> "guidelines" in a newsgroup. A newsgroup is a NEWS-GROUP, where you read..
>> dah... news?
>
>Yup, been on UseNet since about 92, so I'm very familiar with the stupidity
>of UseNet. alt.* != microsoft.*
>
>I think you and both agree that newsgroups are a pathetic communication
>mechanism. I'm not arguing that point. If it was up to me, the servers
>would be locked down to eliminate trolling/flaming. It's not up to me,
>though, so the average, really confused, user suffers so trolls can have
>their fun.

What? Newsgroups are a excellent medium. Don't compare the loons and
idiots that post here as typical to the much wider universe of
newsgroups. What should be done away with is the totally useless and
moronic MVP program that is little more that a cheerleader's club for
Microsoft who collectively their biggest "talent" is knowing how to
copy and paste, and often, the wrong answer.

>OS advocacy is boring as hell. I grew up vehemently anti-Microsoft and
>changed my major in college because I refused to work on Win32. Consider me
>versed in your arguments.

I consider you for what you are based on reading you many rants.
You're a pompous windbag quick to make excuses for Microsoft and never
ever accepting that Vista as well as other prior versions of Windows
is flawed. You also have an exceedingly high opinion of yourself. Get
off your high house. The fact is you're just one of many thousands of
Microsoft flunkies. Sorry for the culture shock, but in the scheme of
things you're a nobody.

>Consider me also in a frickin' prime position to
>make awesome and helpful changes that regularly benefit thousands if not
>millions of users.

Right on Cue. Damn, can I call it or what.

>Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
>kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to solution
>suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling through
>newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.

That is Zach's theme song. Poor baby, him being a MS employee just
can't find anything wrong internally so he's here to point his finger
outward. Trolling? What the hell are you doing? As long as an idiot
takes the absurd position there's nothing to be fixed in Windows then
oh... it never gets fixed.
>
>Also, I've got plenty of friends in the right places.

And you're so impressive in "how" you've influenced Windows
development, like Media Player remains a crippled broken joke.
Priceless!

>We get constructive
>dialogs going on here, I'm much more incented to proactively drive yet more
>goodness. We wallow in flame wars and stupidity, I'm much more liable to
>miss good stuff and/or care less about the troller's concerns.
>
>You're not even in the same league as other people, so don't sweat any
>perceived insult here. I'm just explaining my position of "Wow Wouldn't It
>Be Great If An Actual Senior Developer At Microsoft Could (Would?) Deal With
>Average User Concerns/Issues As Opposed To Accidentally Being In
>Alt.OS.Vista.Advocacy?"
>
>> This newsgroup is the worst that microsoft has, trolls post all day and
>> night, people fight, insults fly around all day and night, because guess
>> what? Vista is crap and it attracts morons!
>
>If you actually read what's going, those wars have nothing to do with Vista,
>really. It's just their way of avoiding therapy. Don't blame the gathering
>area for the people that gather there. ;-)

Speaking of needing therapy, when was your last appointment Zach? You
as always are so full of yourself it is indeed fun to read the crap
you keep posting. I now understand why Microsoft forces it's employees
to make the disclaim you always include. What a pompous ass you always
are.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Ringmaster wrote:

....Right on Cue. Damn,...

--------------------------------------------
Yeah, right on cue. You just can't keep your big stupid, pompous
full-of-**** mouth closed can you? I've never seen anyone like you who
is so quick to prove that you're the village idiot and a fukwit moron
piece of crap loser.
Damn adam. Therapy obviously didn't work for you.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:38:28 -0700, zachd [MSFT] quoth:

> OS advocacy is boring as hell. I grew up vehemently anti-Microsoft and
> changed my major in college because I refused to work on Win32.
> Consider me versed in your arguments. Consider me also in a frickin'
> prime position to make awesome and helpful changes that regularly
> benefit thousands if not millions of users. Speed-bumping useful work
> may be fun for you,

I am still anti_MS but there is no doubt there are plenty of good people
working for the firm producing useful products, and you may well be one of
them.

people come to these newsgroups with various interests, not all of them
problem-solving. I don't find os advocacy boring - that's a personal
opinion (of yours and of mine) and I read this newsgroup for several
reasons, one of them is to read _intelligent_ _informed_ advocacy, pro and
con, as well as curiosity about technical issues and to get tips.

I think the only thing that clogs the group are the adolescent personal
attacks and name-calling which highjack so many threads that start out
interesting (whether technical or advocacy). what I don't killfile I
ignore but it would in general be better if the level of discussion,
including polemic, were a lot higher.

yeah, I do believe there is such a thing as intelligent informed advocacy
and it not the same thing as flaming. this group was a lot better about a
year or so ago (according to my faulty memory).

Felmon
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen such cold market reception


"Ringmaster" <bigtop@VistaGeneralCircus.net> wrote in message
news:gd61845aq7hi83k27t58bnt1cv2bs50qvs@4ax.com...
> What? Newsgroups are a excellent medium.

You mention newsgroup loons, but I'm more interested in it really lacking
stickiness of knowledge, which is why I find large scale *technical*
newsgroups to be shoddy. If you and I discover some magic solutions, we
have to repost them ad infinitum generally. But the loons don't help. ;-)

> What should be done away with is the totally useless and
> moronic MVP program that is little more that a cheerleader's club for
> Microsoft who collectively their biggest "talent" is knowing how to
> copy and paste, and often, the wrong answer.

They're just generally people that do good things for the computer industry
or users. If someone feels that they have a better solution, it doesn't
seem impossible that that better solution/advice could be also provided by
someone better in the know.

Since the lack of knowledge retention plagues at least this venue since it
is after all UseNet, I very much understand posting stabs at solutions in an
attempt to move something forward quickly if possible but not deeply engage
if the poster isn't ever going to return to view your beautiful mountain of
work.

> You're a pompous windbag quick to make excuses for Microsoft and never
> ever accepting that Vista as well as other prior versions of Windows
> is flawed.

On the contrary, my interest is in fixing up problems. There were flaws in
Vista that I helped get fixed in SP1. There are likely flaws in SP1 that I
would be highly interested in also identifying and fixing.

My specific and exact interest is in identifying exact flaws. You and I
both know they're there - identifying them or their repro steps allows for
the potential for them to be fixed.

> Sorry for the culture shock, but in the scheme of
> things you're a nobody.

I totally agree. Absolutely anybody has the chance to do a ton of positive
good. I'm a poor retarded schmuck, but I do take the time to do good that
almost anyone else could also get involved with.

I don't overestimate myself: I'm hyper-aware of my flaws and failures, but
realize I kinda gotta live with them and improve myself. That's neither
here nor there. Even a flaming idiot given time and a good notepad can
probably track down and solve interesting problems in the world.

>>Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
>>kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to
>>solution
>>suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling
>>through
>>newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.
>
> That is Zach's theme song. Poor baby, him being a MS employee just
> can't find anything wrong internally so he's here to point his finger
> outward. Trolling? What the hell are you doing? As long as an idiot
> takes the absurd position there's nothing to be fixed in Windows then
> oh... it never gets fixed.

Reread what you're quoting - your reply doesn't make sense contextually.
My point is that there are things to be fixed, and finding the exact problem
repro or other starting point for identifying that thing to be fixed is
critical. If you're really going to respond upon this, you probably should
mention your path to solution that somehow doesn't involve actually knowing
the details of the failure. I for one bow to your psychic expertise. =)


Here's three cases, both strongly relevant to Vista:
* SatelliteTVforPC 2006 installed their own version of wmp.dll to a private
directory, bypassing SFP. This crashes the player. That's bad. They've
stopped doing that, but I did have to track down that crash before I could
root-cause it and ask them kindly to stop (plus a couple other actions on
the MS side, such as a KB route forward for broken users for this top ten
Vista RTM crash).
* Certain AVI-producing video cameras used WAV_FORMAT_PCM but didn't use PCM
audio. This fell afoul of a more stringent file parser in Vista RTM
resulting in no audio playing. After I managed to fiiiinally get an
afflicted audio file, I took it to Larry and we noticed the data size check
failure, looked into it, and grandfathered support for those files back in
for Vista SP1.
* Outlook or Remote Desktop might stop working in Vista RTM. This turned
out to be sourced to a crashing codec - a particularly egregiously bad codec
(as Avery Lee covered at one point). After lucking into a user providing
crash details for that, I worked with XX to ensure that this codec was
killswitched for Vista SP1.

You take the problem, you add investigation, you move forward with
solutions. If you look up the above problems on deja.com or similar, you'll
see me vaguely working my way towards solutions here. That's kind of what I
do. It's kind of a good thing. *Anybody* could have done this - I just
bothered to take the time.


Again, I've never really understood why my attempts to actually fix specific
problems in Windows bothers you, but that's really your issue that happily
doesn't involve me. Since I worked on fixes for SP1, it's nonsensical at
best to say that I take the position that there's "nothing to be fixed". On
the contrary, I'm saying that there are things to be fixed, and I'm very
interested in taking the time to investigate them (root-cause) and either
figure out or redirect appropriately for solutions. You'll note that I
pretty specifically mentioned two specific changes in Vista SP1 - there are
others, but those are directly relevant to your multimedia concerns, so I
thought you might be basically familiar with those areas. It would be more
accurate to say "Zach believes there to be flaws and loves to go find and
fix them wherever they might be". =)

-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception

zachd [MSFT] wrote:
>
> "Ringmaster" <bigtop@VistaGeneralCircus.net> wrote in message
> news:gd61845aq7hi83k27t58bnt1cv2bs50qvs@4ax.com...
>> What? Newsgroups are a excellent medium.
>
> You mention newsgroup loons, but I'm more interested in it really
> lacking stickiness of knowledge, which is why I find large scale
> *technical* newsgroups to be shoddy. If you and I discover some magic
> solutions, we have to repost them ad infinitum generally. But the loons
> don't help. ;-)
>
>> What should be done away with is the totally useless and
>> moronic MVP program that is little more that a cheerleader's club for
>> Microsoft who collectively their biggest "talent" is knowing how to
>> copy and paste, and often, the wrong answer.
>
> They're just generally people that do good things for the computer
> industry or users. If someone feels that they have a better solution,
> it doesn't seem impossible that that better solution/advice could be
> also provided by someone better in the know.
>
> Since the lack of knowledge retention plagues at least this venue since
> it is after all UseNet, I very much understand posting stabs at
> solutions in an attempt to move something forward quickly if possible
> but not deeply engage if the poster isn't ever going to return to view
> your beautiful mountain of work.
>
>> You're a pompous windbag quick to make excuses for Microsoft and never
>> ever accepting that Vista as well as other prior versions of Windows
>> is flawed.
>
> On the contrary, my interest is in fixing up problems. There were flaws
> in Vista that I helped get fixed in SP1. There are likely flaws in SP1
> that I would be highly interested in also identifying and fixing.
>
> My specific and exact interest is in identifying exact flaws. You and I
> both know they're there - identifying them or their repro steps allows
> for the potential for them to be fixed.
>
>> Sorry for the culture shock, but in the scheme of
>> things you're a nobody.
>
> I totally agree. Absolutely anybody has the chance to do a ton of
> positive good. I'm a poor retarded schmuck, but I do take the time to
> do good that almost anyone else could also get involved with.
>
> I don't overestimate myself: I'm hyper-aware of my flaws and failures,
> but realize I kinda gotta live with them and improve myself. That's
> neither here nor there. Even a flaming idiot given time and a good
> notepad can probably track down and solve interesting problems in the
> world.
>
>>> Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
>>> kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to
>>> solution
>>> suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling
>>> through
>>> newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.
>>
>> That is Zach's theme song. Poor baby, him being a MS employee just
>> can't find anything wrong internally so he's here to point his finger
>> outward. Trolling? What the hell are you doing? As long as an idiot
>> takes the absurd position there's nothing to be fixed in Windows then
>> oh... it never gets fixed.
>
> Reread what you're quoting - your reply doesn't make sense contextually.
> My point is that there are things to be fixed, and finding the exact
> problem repro or other starting point for identifying that thing to be
> fixed is critical. If you're really going to respond upon this, you
> probably should mention your path to solution that somehow doesn't
> involve actually knowing the details of the failure. I for one bow to
> your psychic expertise. =)
>
>
> Here's three cases, both strongly relevant to Vista:
> * SatelliteTVforPC 2006 installed their own version of wmp.dll to a
> private directory, bypassing SFP. This crashes the player. That's
> bad. They've stopped doing that, but I did have to track down that
> crash before I could root-cause it and ask them kindly to stop (plus a
> couple other actions on the MS side, such as a KB route forward for
> broken users for this top ten Vista RTM crash).
> * Certain AVI-producing video cameras used WAV_FORMAT_PCM but didn't use
> PCM audio. This fell afoul of a more stringent file parser in Vista RTM
> resulting in no audio playing. After I managed to fiiiinally get an
> afflicted audio file, I took it to Larry and we noticed the data size
> check failure, looked into it, and grandfathered support for those files
> back in for Vista SP1.
> * Outlook or Remote Desktop might stop working in Vista RTM. This
> turned out to be sourced to a crashing codec - a particularly
> egregiously bad codec (as Avery Lee covered at one point). After
> lucking into a user providing crash details for that, I worked with XX
> to ensure that this codec was killswitched for Vista SP1.
>
> You take the problem, you add investigation, you move forward with
> solutions. If you look up the above problems on deja.com or similar,
> you'll see me vaguely working my way towards solutions here. That's
> kind of what I do. It's kind of a good thing. *Anybody* could have
> done this - I just bothered to take the time.
>
>
> Again, I've never really understood why my attempts to actually fix
> specific problems in Windows bothers you, but that's really your issue
> that happily doesn't involve me. Since I worked on fixes for SP1, it's
> nonsensical at best to say that I take the position that there's
> "nothing to be fixed". On the contrary, I'm saying that there are
> things to be fixed, and I'm very interested in taking the time to
> investigate them (root-cause) and either figure out or redirect
> appropriately for solutions. You'll note that I pretty specifically
> mentioned two specific changes in Vista SP1 - there are others, but
> those are directly relevant to your multimedia concerns, so I thought
> you might be basically familiar with those areas. It would be more
> accurate to say "Zach believes there to be flaws and loves to go find
> and fix them wherever they might be". =)
>
> -Zach

Isn't my little "Ringmaster" the most pathetic thing!
He knows so much about so little!
 
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