H
Hobbes
Guest
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception
Mrs. Ringmaster wrote:
> zachd [MSFT] wrote:
>>
>> "Ringmaster" <bigtop@VistaGeneralCircus.net> wrote in message
>> news:gd61845aq7hi83k27t58bnt1cv2bs50qvs@4ax.com...
>>> What? Newsgroups are a excellent medium.
>>
>> You mention newsgroup loons, but I'm more interested in it really
>> lacking stickiness of knowledge, which is why I find large scale
>> *technical* newsgroups to be shoddy. If you and I discover some magic
>> solutions, we have to repost them ad infinitum generally. But the
>> loons don't help. ;-)
>>
>>> What should be done away with is the totally useless and
>>> moronic MVP program that is little more that a cheerleader's club for
>>> Microsoft who collectively their biggest "talent" is knowing how to
>>> copy and paste, and often, the wrong answer.
>>
>> They're just generally people that do good things for the computer
>> industry or users. If someone feels that they have a better solution,
>> it doesn't seem impossible that that better solution/advice could be
>> also provided by someone better in the know.
>>
>> Since the lack of knowledge retention plagues at least this venue
>> since it is after all UseNet, I very much understand posting stabs at
>> solutions in an attempt to move something forward quickly if possible
>> but not deeply engage if the poster isn't ever going to return to view
>> your beautiful mountain of work.
>>
>>> You're a pompous windbag quick to make excuses for Microsoft and never
>>> ever accepting that Vista as well as other prior versions of Windows
>>> is flawed.
>>
>> On the contrary, my interest is in fixing up problems. There were
>> flaws in Vista that I helped get fixed in SP1. There are likely flaws
>> in SP1 that I would be highly interested in also identifying and fixing.
>>
>> My specific and exact interest is in identifying exact flaws. You and
>> I both know they're there - identifying them or their repro steps
>> allows for the potential for them to be fixed.
>>
>>> Sorry for the culture shock, but in the scheme of
>>> things you're a nobody.
>>
>> I totally agree. Absolutely anybody has the chance to do a ton of
>> positive good. I'm a poor retarded schmuck, but I do take the time to
>> do good that almost anyone else could also get involved with.
>>
>> I don't overestimate myself: I'm hyper-aware of my flaws and failures,
>> but realize I kinda gotta live with them and improve myself. That's
>> neither here nor there. Even a flaming idiot given time and a good
>> notepad can probably track down and solve interesting problems in the
>> world.
>>
>>>> Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
>>>> kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to
>>>> solution
>>>> suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling
>>>> through
>>>> newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.
>>>
>>> That is Zach's theme song. Poor baby, him being a MS employee just
>>> can't find anything wrong internally so he's here to point his finger
>>> outward. Trolling? What the hell are you doing? As long as an idiot
>>> takes the absurd position there's nothing to be fixed in Windows then
>>> oh... it never gets fixed.
>>
>> Reread what you're quoting - your reply doesn't make sense contextually.
>> My point is that there are things to be fixed, and finding the exact
>> problem repro or other starting point for identifying that thing to be
>> fixed is critical. If you're really going to respond upon this, you
>> probably should mention your path to solution that somehow doesn't
>> involve actually knowing the details of the failure. I for one bow to
>> your psychic expertise. =)
>>
>>
>> Here's three cases, both strongly relevant to Vista:
>> * SatelliteTVforPC 2006 installed their own version of wmp.dll to a
>> private directory, bypassing SFP. This crashes the player. That's
>> bad. They've stopped doing that, but I did have to track down that
>> crash before I could root-cause it and ask them kindly to stop (plus a
>> couple other actions on the MS side, such as a KB route forward for
>> broken users for this top ten Vista RTM crash).
>> * Certain AVI-producing video cameras used WAV_FORMAT_PCM but didn't
>> use PCM audio. This fell afoul of a more stringent file parser in
>> Vista RTM resulting in no audio playing. After I managed to
>> fiiiinally get an afflicted audio file, I took it to Larry and we
>> noticed the data size check failure, looked into it, and grandfathered
>> support for those files back in for Vista SP1.
>> * Outlook or Remote Desktop might stop working in Vista RTM. This
>> turned out to be sourced to a crashing codec - a particularly
>> egregiously bad codec (as Avery Lee covered at one point). After
>> lucking into a user providing crash details for that, I worked with XX
>> to ensure that this codec was killswitched for Vista SP1.
>>
>> You take the problem, you add investigation, you move forward with
>> solutions. If you look up the above problems on deja.com or similar,
>> you'll see me vaguely working my way towards solutions here. That's
>> kind of what I do. It's kind of a good thing. *Anybody* could have
>> done this - I just bothered to take the time.
>>
>>
>> Again, I've never really understood why my attempts to actually fix
>> specific problems in Windows bothers you, but that's really your issue
>> that happily doesn't involve me. Since I worked on fixes for SP1,
>> it's nonsensical at best to say that I take the position that there's
>> "nothing to be fixed". On the contrary, I'm saying that there are
>> things to be fixed, and I'm very interested in taking the time to
>> investigate them (root-cause) and either figure out or redirect
>> appropriately for solutions. You'll note that I pretty specifically
>> mentioned two specific changes in Vista SP1 - there are others, but
>> those are directly relevant to your multimedia concerns, so I thought
>> you might be basically familiar with those areas. It would be more
>> accurate to say "Zach believes there to be flaws and loves to go find
>> and fix them wherever they might be". =)
>>
>> -Zach
>
> Isn't my little "Ringmaster" the most pathetic thing!
> He knows so much about so little!
I think what ringmaster is saying...is that as a retail product(sold for
top dollar)...some of these bugs should have been caught by the
lackadaisical attitude of employees that basically are saying, "We'll
get to it when we do".
That will not last for long.
You will see.
Re: Not since Windows Me has a Microsoft operating system seen suchcold market reception
Mrs. Ringmaster wrote:
> zachd [MSFT] wrote:
>>
>> "Ringmaster" <bigtop@VistaGeneralCircus.net> wrote in message
>> news:gd61845aq7hi83k27t58bnt1cv2bs50qvs@4ax.com...
>>> What? Newsgroups are a excellent medium.
>>
>> You mention newsgroup loons, but I'm more interested in it really
>> lacking stickiness of knowledge, which is why I find large scale
>> *technical* newsgroups to be shoddy. If you and I discover some magic
>> solutions, we have to repost them ad infinitum generally. But the
>> loons don't help. ;-)
>>
>>> What should be done away with is the totally useless and
>>> moronic MVP program that is little more that a cheerleader's club for
>>> Microsoft who collectively their biggest "talent" is knowing how to
>>> copy and paste, and often, the wrong answer.
>>
>> They're just generally people that do good things for the computer
>> industry or users. If someone feels that they have a better solution,
>> it doesn't seem impossible that that better solution/advice could be
>> also provided by someone better in the know.
>>
>> Since the lack of knowledge retention plagues at least this venue
>> since it is after all UseNet, I very much understand posting stabs at
>> solutions in an attempt to move something forward quickly if possible
>> but not deeply engage if the poster isn't ever going to return to view
>> your beautiful mountain of work.
>>
>>> You're a pompous windbag quick to make excuses for Microsoft and never
>>> ever accepting that Vista as well as other prior versions of Windows
>>> is flawed.
>>
>> On the contrary, my interest is in fixing up problems. There were
>> flaws in Vista that I helped get fixed in SP1. There are likely flaws
>> in SP1 that I would be highly interested in also identifying and fixing.
>>
>> My specific and exact interest is in identifying exact flaws. You and
>> I both know they're there - identifying them or their repro steps
>> allows for the potential for them to be fixed.
>>
>>> Sorry for the culture shock, but in the scheme of
>>> things you're a nobody.
>>
>> I totally agree. Absolutely anybody has the chance to do a ton of
>> positive good. I'm a poor retarded schmuck, but I do take the time to
>> do good that almost anyone else could also get involved with.
>>
>> I don't overestimate myself: I'm hyper-aware of my flaws and failures,
>> but realize I kinda gotta live with them and improve myself. That's
>> neither here nor there. Even a flaming idiot given time and a good
>> notepad can probably track down and solve interesting problems in the
>> world.
>>
>>>> Speed-bumping useful work may be fun for you, but it's
>>>> kind of sad to me to think about poor confused users whose time to
>>>> solution
>>>> suffers by months to years because I or others have trouble trolling
>>>> through
>>>> newsgroups or other arenas trying to find the exact problem repro.
>>>
>>> That is Zach's theme song. Poor baby, him being a MS employee just
>>> can't find anything wrong internally so he's here to point his finger
>>> outward. Trolling? What the hell are you doing? As long as an idiot
>>> takes the absurd position there's nothing to be fixed in Windows then
>>> oh... it never gets fixed.
>>
>> Reread what you're quoting - your reply doesn't make sense contextually.
>> My point is that there are things to be fixed, and finding the exact
>> problem repro or other starting point for identifying that thing to be
>> fixed is critical. If you're really going to respond upon this, you
>> probably should mention your path to solution that somehow doesn't
>> involve actually knowing the details of the failure. I for one bow to
>> your psychic expertise. =)
>>
>>
>> Here's three cases, both strongly relevant to Vista:
>> * SatelliteTVforPC 2006 installed their own version of wmp.dll to a
>> private directory, bypassing SFP. This crashes the player. That's
>> bad. They've stopped doing that, but I did have to track down that
>> crash before I could root-cause it and ask them kindly to stop (plus a
>> couple other actions on the MS side, such as a KB route forward for
>> broken users for this top ten Vista RTM crash).
>> * Certain AVI-producing video cameras used WAV_FORMAT_PCM but didn't
>> use PCM audio. This fell afoul of a more stringent file parser in
>> Vista RTM resulting in no audio playing. After I managed to
>> fiiiinally get an afflicted audio file, I took it to Larry and we
>> noticed the data size check failure, looked into it, and grandfathered
>> support for those files back in for Vista SP1.
>> * Outlook or Remote Desktop might stop working in Vista RTM. This
>> turned out to be sourced to a crashing codec - a particularly
>> egregiously bad codec (as Avery Lee covered at one point). After
>> lucking into a user providing crash details for that, I worked with XX
>> to ensure that this codec was killswitched for Vista SP1.
>>
>> You take the problem, you add investigation, you move forward with
>> solutions. If you look up the above problems on deja.com or similar,
>> you'll see me vaguely working my way towards solutions here. That's
>> kind of what I do. It's kind of a good thing. *Anybody* could have
>> done this - I just bothered to take the time.
>>
>>
>> Again, I've never really understood why my attempts to actually fix
>> specific problems in Windows bothers you, but that's really your issue
>> that happily doesn't involve me. Since I worked on fixes for SP1,
>> it's nonsensical at best to say that I take the position that there's
>> "nothing to be fixed". On the contrary, I'm saying that there are
>> things to be fixed, and I'm very interested in taking the time to
>> investigate them (root-cause) and either figure out or redirect
>> appropriately for solutions. You'll note that I pretty specifically
>> mentioned two specific changes in Vista SP1 - there are others, but
>> those are directly relevant to your multimedia concerns, so I thought
>> you might be basically familiar with those areas. It would be more
>> accurate to say "Zach believes there to be flaws and loves to go find
>> and fix them wherever they might be". =)
>>
>> -Zach
>
> Isn't my little "Ringmaster" the most pathetic thing!
> He knows so much about so little!
I think what ringmaster is saying...is that as a retail product(sold for
top dollar)...some of these bugs should have been caught by the
lackadaisical attitude of employees that basically are saying, "We'll
get to it when we do".
That will not last for long.
You will see.
