Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

[FredP]

Re: Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:23:12 -0700, "N. Miller"
<anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote:

Snipped .....
>
>> No firewall, open computer. That simple.
>
>Not quite that simple.
>
>> A hacker can get into it and put viruses and other malware to their heart's
>> content.
>
>A hacker needs a point of access to place viruses and other malware on a
>computer. No open ports, no points of access, firewall, or not. Ports are
>opened by services, including "File and Printer sharing for Microsoft
>Windows". Disable the services, and there are no open ports, no points of
>access; even without a firewall.

Have a look at http://www.grc.com/intro.htm and do the ShieldsUp test.

Your computer is tested for open ports.

Greetings, FredP

 

[FredP]

Re: Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:25:01 -0700, Danger_Duck
<DangerDuck@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Here's my perspective:
>
>I use the internet almost exclusively to:
>1. Check e-mail
>2. Check facebook
>3. Read/post in newsgroups
>4. Browse info in trusted sites (wsj.com, wikipedia)
>5. Watch youtube videos.
>6. Occasionally download files.
>
>I figure firefox and gmail both have filters and warnings about "fake" sites
>and spam/phishing e-mails (1), I've not heard of any facebook attacks (2),
>newsgroups are simply http requests (3), I only click on links whose url make
>sense(4), and never heard of virus/trojan/spyware on youtube(5).
>
>As for (6), this is one place where I see a vulnerability. But most of my
>downloads are things like Eclipse plug-ins or files somebody I know sent me.
>And if I'm uncertain, isn't there free software that will virus-scan
>attachments/downloads on demand?
>
>The reason I'm not sure about virus scanners is that McAfee not only takes
>time to update, it has this annoying habit of checking zip files for viruses
>every time (so when I download a zip it takes much longer). In addition to
>slowing down my computer, they also cost money.
>
>Finally, when there is a problem, couldn't I just get the removal tools at
>that time and restore computer settings with cds/backup data?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input.

I use Avast! antivirus and Comodo firewall. Also running is BOClean
which last month catched something that slipped through. Wow.

BOClean is a program that every 10 seconds tests which programs are
active by using a signature data base: 60213 trojans are covered in
the current file. Updates every 2-3 days and is freeware. It does not
slow down your machine.

Have a look at http://www.comodo.com/boclean/boclean.html

Here is an old review (2004) explaining the principles:

http://www.anti-trojan-software-reviews.com/review-boclean.htm

In the summary the reviewer sees the absence of disk file scanner as a
minus point. He missed the idea behind BOClean; not preemptive but a
catcher in the act.

Enjoy & take care, FredP

 

[sgopus]

RE: Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

your info is considerably limited, as I was just reading an article about
frame injected malware on facebook sites, so yes you need AV and firewall
protection asa well as malware and spyware protection, hardware firewalls are
good, but still you need to watch for the occasional engineered e-mail to
trick you.

"Danger_Duck" wrote:

> Here's my perspective:
>
> I use the internet almost exclusively to:
> 1. Check e-mail
> 2. Check facebook
> 3. Read/post in newsgroups
> 4. Browse info in trusted sites (wsj.com, wikipedia)
> 5. Watch youtube videos.
> 6. Occasionally download files.
>
> I figure firefox and gmail both have filters and warnings about "fake" sites
> and spam/phishing e-mails (1), I've not heard of any facebook attacks (2),
> newsgroups are simply http requests (3), I only click on links whose url make
> sense(4), and never heard of virus/trojan/spyware on youtube(5).
>
> As for (6), this is one place where I see a vulnerability. But most of my
> downloads are things like Eclipse plug-ins or files somebody I know sent me.
> And if I'm uncertain, isn't there free software that will virus-scan
> attachments/downloads on demand?
>
> The reason I'm not sure about virus scanners is that McAfee not only takes
> time to update, it has this annoying habit of checking zip files for viruses
> every time (so when I download a zip it takes much longer). In addition to
> slowing down my computer, they also cost money.
>
> Finally, when there is a problem, couldn't I just get the removal tools at
> that time and restore computer settings with cds/backup data?
>
> Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Kayman]

Re: Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:25:01 -0700, Danger_Duck wrote:

> Here's my perspective:
>
> I use the internet almost exclusively to:
> 1. Check e-mail
> 2. Check facebook
> 3. Read/post in newsgroups
> 4. Browse info in trusted sites (wsj.com, wikipedia)
> 5. Watch youtube videos.
> 6. Occasionally download files.
>
> I figure firefox and gmail both have filters and warnings about "fake" sites
> and spam/phishing e-mails (1), I've not heard of any facebook attacks (2),
> newsgroups are simply http requests (3), I only click on links whose url make
> sense(4), and never heard of virus/trojan/spyware on youtube(5).
>
> As for (6), this is one place where I see a vulnerability. But most of my
> downloads are things like Eclipse plug-ins or files somebody I know sent me.
> And if I'm uncertain, isn't there free software that will virus-scan
> attachments/downloads on demand?
>
> The reason I'm not sure about virus scanners is that McAfee not only takes
> time to update, it has this annoying habit of checking zip files for viruses
> every time (so when I download a zip it takes much longer). In addition to
> slowing down my computer, they also cost money.

McAfee Consumer Product Removal Tool 2.0.155.1
....Will remove all 2005, 2006, and 2007 versions of McAfee consumer
products.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Uninstallers/McAfee-Consumer-Product-Removal-Tool.shtml

Excellent alternative:
Avira AntiVir® Personal - FREE Antivirus
http://www.free-av.com/
(The free version won't scan your emails.)

Why You Don't Need Your Anti-Virus Program to Scan Your E-Mail
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tutorials/email-scanning/index.htm
Ensure your e-mail program is configured to display e-mail messages in
'Plain Text' only.
You may wish to consider removing the 'AntiVir Nagscreen'
http://www.elitekiller.com/files/disable_antivir_nag.htm

> Finally, when there is a problem, couldn't I just get the removal tools at
> that time and restore computer settings with cds/backup data?

*Security is a process not a product*.
(Bruce Schneier)

For Win XP the most dependable defenses are:
1. Do not work as Administrator; For day-to-day work routinely use a
Limited User Account (LUA).
2. Secure (Harden) your operating system.
3. Don't expose services to public networks.
4. Keep your operating (OS) system (and all software on it)updated/patched.
(Got SP3 yet?).
5. Reconsider the usage of IE and OE.
5a.Secure (Harden) Internet Explorer.
6. Review your installed 3rd party software applications/utilities; Remove
clutter, *including* 3rd party software personal (so-called) firewall
application (PFW) - the one which claims: "It can stop/control malicious
outbound traffic".
7. If on dial-up Internet connection, activate the build-in firewall and
configure Windows not to use TCP/IP as transport protocol for NetBIOS,
SMB and RPC, thus leaving TCP/UDP ports 135,137-139 and 445 (the most
exploited Windows networking weak point) closed.
7a.If on high-speed Internet connection use a router.
For the average homeuser it is suggested blocking both TCP and UDP ports
135 ~ 139 and 445 on the router and implement countermeasures against
DNSChanger. (Is the Firmware of your router up-to-date?).
And (just in case) Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) has been superseded by
Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA).
8. Routinely practice Safe-Hex.

Also, ensure you do:
a. Regularly back-up data/files.
b. Familiarize yourself with crash recovery tools and re-installing your
operating system (OS).
c. Utilize a good-quality real-time anti-virus application and some vital
system monitoring utilities/applications.
d. Keep abreast of the latest developments.

And finally:
Most computer magazines and/or (computer) specialized websites are *biased*
i.e. heavily weighted towards the (advertisement) dollar almighty!
Therefore:
a. Be cautious selecting software applications touted in publications
relying on advertisement revenue.
b. Do take their *test-results* of various software with a *considerable*
amount of salt!
c. Which also applies to their *investigative* in-depth test reports
related to any software applications.
d. Investigate claims made by software manufacturer *prior* downloading
their software; Subscribing to noncommercial-type publications,
specialized newsgroups and/or fora (to some extend) are a great way to
find out the 'nitty-gritties' and to consider various options available.

The least preferred defenses are:
Myriads of popular anti-whatever applications and staying ignorant.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Re: Is a virus scanner/firewall really necessary?

Danger_Duck wrote:
> Here's my perspective:
>
> I use the internet almost exclusively to:
> 1. Check e-mail ...

A constant source of malware delivery.

> 2. Check facebook ...

An occasional source of malware infestations, just like MySpace, or any
other social networking site with loose controls. The administrators
try to keep them clean, but things slip through every now and then.

> 3. Read/post in newsgroups

If you're using a text-based news-reader, exclusively, and never
downloading images or binaries, that's mostly safe.


> 4. Browse info in trusted sites (wsj.com, wikipedia)


Anyone can post to Wikipedia, so anything can be encountered there....


> 5. Watch youtube videos.

Another common source of malware, embedded in videos and some
advertisements.

> 6. Occasionally download files.
>

A frequent source of malware.


> I figure firefox and gmail both have filters and warnings about "fake" sites
> and spam/phishing e-mails (1),


So? That's got *NOTHING* to do with protecting you from malware.


> I've not heard of any facebook attacks (2),


That doesn't mean they haven't or can't happen....


> newsgroups are simply http requests (3), I only click on links whose url make
> sense(4), and never heard of virus/trojan/spyware on youtube(5).


Now you're really out of touch.

>
> As for (6), this is one place where I see a vulnerability.


Yes, a big one.


> But most of my
> downloads are things like Eclipse plug-ins or files somebody I know sent me.
> And if I'm uncertain, isn't there free software that will virus-scan
> attachments/downloads on demand?
>


Sure, but, just like any other AV solution, they need tpo be installed
and running, first.


> The reason I'm not sure about virus scanners is that McAfee not only takes
> time to update, it has this annoying habit of checking zip files for viruses
> every time (so when I download a zip it takes much longer).


So, you're annoyed that McAfee is doing exactly what it's designed to
do? That's the whole point of using an AV. Granted, McAfee is probably
one of the worst examples of AV software there is.


> In addition to
> slowing down my computer, they also cost money.
>

There are many free alternatives, most of which won't slow down a
computer as much as Norton's or McAfee's bloatware will.


> Finally, when there is a problem, couldn't I just get the removal tools at
> that time and restore computer settings with cds/backup data?
>

Your choice, of course, if you don't mind wasting time unnecessarily.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

There are several essential components to computer security: a
knowledgeable and pro-active user, a properly configured firewall,
reliable and up-to-date antivirus software, and the prompt repair (via
patches, hotfixes, or service packs) of any known vulnerabilities.

The weakest link in this "equation" is, of course, the computer
user. No software manufacturer can -- nor should they be expected
to -- protect the computer user from him/herself. All too many people
have bought into the various PC/software manufacturers marketing
claims of easy computing. They believe that their computer should be
no harder to use than a toaster oven; they have neither the
inclination or desire to learn how to safely use their computer. All
too few people keep their antivirus software current, install patches
in a timely manner, or stop to really think about that cutesy link
they're about to click.

Firewalls and anti-virus applications, which should always be used
and should always be running, are important components of "safe hex,"
but they cannot, and should not be expected to, protect the computer
user from him/herself. Ultimately, it is incumbent upon each and
every computer user to learn how to secure his/her own computer.

To learn more about practicing "safe hex," start with these links:

Protect Your PC
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/default.asp

Home Computer Security
http://www.cert.org/homeusers/HomeComputerSecurity/

List of Antivirus Software Vendors
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;49500

Home PC Firewall Guide
http://www.firewallguide.com/

Scumware.com
http://www.scumware.com/



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot