Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Franc Zabkar · Sep 9, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:11:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Thank you Franc
>The COM port is enabled in the BIOS setup. I have not replaced the CMOS
>battery for about three years but the time and date settings are correct so I
>am assuming that it is OK.
>I would like to test the Com Port but before attempting to do so I would
>like a little bit more advice. When you say to use a paper clip to connect
>any output pin to any imput pin do you mean to connect say RXD to TXD

Yes, this will verify those two signals.

> or DTR
>or RTS on the COM port an the computer.?

Connect, say, RTS to CTS, and DTR to DSR, at the same COM port
connector at the rear of the computer.

> Does the flash appear the same for
>each connection. ?

The flash rates differ so that the user can easily associate the
various signals with LEDs in an RS232 breakout box, or with readings
on a multimeter.

Here is a typical RS232 breakout box:
http://www.escience.ca/GFX/PRODS/XC-138.jpg

There are other COM port diagnostic programs, but they require a
special loopback connector, eg http://www.iec.net/l1341.html

>Is there a danger of creating a short if say pin 2 was
>inadvertently connected to pin 5.?
>Are any precautions necessary?
>The Win98 Computer does not have an internet connection. which means that I
>cannot download directly to it. Instead of testing the RAM I intend to
>replace it.
>Thanks for your help

When your mouse stops responding in Windows, hold down Ctrl-Esc, then
press R, and type the following into the Run box:

C:\WINDOWS\CONTROL.EXE sysdm.cpl,system,1

This should bring up Device Manager.

Now type F to reFresh the device list. If your mouse hardware has
hung, then this may restart it. Otherwise, if your mouse stops
responding as a consequence of a general system hang, then this won't
fix it.

BTW, typical mouse failures include intermittent cables. I had to
shorten the cable in my mother's serial mouse for the this reason (a
replacement mouse wasn't available from the local stores).

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

jj mac · Sep 9, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Thanks Glee for your further advice.
I am at present running Windows Memory Diagnostics. I started the test
about 6 hours ago . I ran 7 test passes in Windows Memory Diagnostics before
switching to the extended test suite in which 22 passes have so far been
completed . I will let it run overnight as you have advised. To date no
errors have been found. Assuming that it is still error free tomorrow
morning, ie after about 16 hours, can I assume that memory is not causing the
problem? I was almost hoping that a fault in the RAM was causing the
problems as I intend to remove the 4 modules of RAM at present installed.
and replace them with a single module of 64 MB or preferably 128mb, if that
is permissible. I came across a warning on the Internet that “if you add
more than 64MB of RAM to a system that does not support caching of more than
64Mb of system memory eg. The Intel Triton i450FX based motherboards
completely disables the onboard L2 cache when more than 64MB of RAM is
installed, causing major performance degradation “(end of quotation). My
motherboard is Intel Triton i430FX based but it has pipeline burst cache.
System Information shows a “Windows managed swap file on drive C: with 3878MB
free being the amount of free space currently on drive C: I cannot find any
reference anywhere to L2 cache being installed. Would the Pipeline Burst
Cache free up the whole of the available space on the drive? If so is there
any reason why I should not install 128MB of RAM.?
I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
With the Computer locking up I must have run Windows Scan Disk 30 or more
times within the past few weeks and never once did it find any defects.

Thanks for you help

--
JJ MacA

"glee" wrote:

> I suggest you also run a hard drive diagnostic as I described in my previous reply
> in this thread.
>
> It may be, as philo suggested, that the RAM is at fault.
> Please follow the instructions here to create a disk for testing RAM, and then run a
> long loop test on the RAM overnight:
> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
>
> <quote>
>
> To run Windows Memory Diagnostic, you must first set up Windows Memory Diagnostic on
> a 3.5-inch floppy disk or CD-ROM.
>
> Go to the directory where you saved the Windows Memory Diagnostic executable file,
> mtinst.exe.
> Double-click mtinst.exe to start Windows Memory Diagnostic Setup. Depending on your
> security settings, the File Download dialog box might appear when you run
> mtinst.exe. If it appears, click Open to start Windows Memory Diagnostic Setup.
> Other security dialog boxes might also appear. This can happen, for example, if you
> try to install Windows Memory Diagnostic from a Universal Naming Convention (UNC)
> shared folder. These dialog boxes are related to your security settings and not to
> Windows Memory Diagnostic. If you experience problems when you are trying to install
> Windows Memory Diagnostic, either be sure to run Mtinst.exe from your local
> computer, or review your security settings and the documentation included in your
> version of Windows.
>
> Do either of the following:
>
> Click Create Startup Disk to install Windows Memory Diagnostic on a floppy disk.
>
> Select the floppy disk drive that you want to use from the list provided.
> Insert a formatted floppy disk into this drive and then click Create. When the
> installation is complete, the Success dialog box will appear.
>
> Or, click Save CD Image to Disk if you want to create a CD-ROM that you can use to
> start your computer.
>
> Select a location where you want to save the International Organization for
> Standardization (ISO) 9660 image and then click Save. When the file has been saved,
> the Success dialog box will appear.
>
> For more information about creating a CD-ROM that you can boot from, see the Note at
> the end of this section.
> Restart your computer with the disk on which you installed Windows Memory Diagnostic
> (either the floppy or CD-ROM drive).
>
> Important
> In the boot sequence, the drive with the Windows Memory Diagnostic disk must precede
> any other devices on which there is a bootable program, such as a hard disk on which
> Windows is installed. You can configure the boot sequence in the BIOS settings. On
> most computers, the default boot sequence includes the floppy drive. For more
> information about configuring the boot sequence, see the documentation for your
> motherboard.
>
> </quote>
>
> Diretc download link:
> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/mtinst.exe
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "jj mac" <jj mac@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:E59A0DFF-A238-489A-B75B-60682DF43F23@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks Philo
> > I have checked the BIOS settings. The serial port to which the mouse is
> > attached is enabled and set to auto'
> > I don't have a PS/2 port on that Computer but I can use a wireless mouse
> > through a USB port. The mouse problem is secondary to the Lockups other than
> > the two problems may be related.
> > I suspect that RAM faults may be causing the lockups. I intend to reseat
> > the existing Ram strips but if that does not work I will replace it.
> > I don't think that overheating is responsible. I have left the computer
> > running (idle) for over 4 hours and it did not lockup. Its only when I start
> > working with programs that it locksup frequently
> > Thanks for your help.--
> > JJ MacA
> >
> >
> > "philo" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "jj mac" <jj mac@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:29DF7D50-099F-40E3-A026-D354AC225FA4@microsoft.com...
> >> > My Win98SE Computer has the following Specification :
> >> >
> >> > Intel Pentium 120 Mhz
> >> > 40MB RAM
> >> > 1MB PCI Graphics Card
> >> > 2No. HDDs Drive C: 4086MB (3871MB free) Fat 32
> >> > Drive D: 1025MB (262MB free) Fat 32
> >> > Intel i430 FX Triton Motherboard.
> >> > 5 port USB2 PCI adapter card installed
> >> > Operating System : Windows 98 4.10.2222A
> >> >
> >> > This Computer has developed the following faults which may be related.
> >> >
> >> > 1 During bootup I am getting an error message "Windows did not detect a
> >> > mouse attached to this Computer". By installing a wireless mouse
> >> (attached
> >> > to a USB port) instead of the serial mouse I am able to overcome that
> >> problem
> >> > but the Serial Port fault remains. I have checked the serial mouse on
> >> > another Computer and it is OK.
> >> >
> >> > 2. The Computer freezes sometimes during bootup but more often two or
> >> > three mouse clicks after opening a program. When that happens all I can
> >> do
> >> > is switch off the power plug & during reboot wait while the computer runs
> >> > ScanDisk.
> >> >
> >> > Win 98SE is installed in Drive C. In an attempt to correct these
> >> problems
> >> > I reformatted drive C and reinstalled Win 98SE from its original CD. I
> >> now
> >> > realise that by doing so I have lost all of the Win98 updates and IE ver.5
> >> > has been installed. As a result the mouse problem remains, and although I
> >> > have not reloaded any programs after the reformat , the Computer freezes
> >> have
> >> > worsened ,
> >> > The Computer is now virtually unusable.
> >> > I have a number of programs installed on the second HD ,drive D, but
> >> assume
> >> > that they would have no bearing on the problems.
> >> >
> >> > I have a Broadband Ethernet connection with another desktop Computer and
> >> a
> >> > wireless connection with a laptop. This old Computer is not connected to
> >> the
> >> > internet at present. If I can resolve these issues I would then hope to
> >> add
> >> > a Broadband connection from my router using a USB LAN to Ethernet adapter.
> >> >
> >> > The only additional hardware recently installed was the USB2 adapter
> >> card.
> >> > I recall that the card was supplied with an installation disk but to get
> >> it
> >> > to work properly I had to download and install an additional Win 98 Mass
> >> > Storage driver. The USB2 ports are working perfectly. I suppose the
> >> card
> >> > could be causing a conflict but if so it was not immediately apparent. If
> >> I
> >> > remove the card to check out whether or not it is causing a conflict I
> >> would
> >> > have no control of the cursor. I cannot find any keyboard control thereof
> >> > possibly caused by the mouse /com port fault.
> >> > After reinstalling Win 98se I removed the Modem (internal) card as its
> >> > drivers appeared not to have installed properly.
> >> > I would appreciate advice as to what is the likely cause of these
> >> problems,
> >> > there resolution, or on what trouble shooting measures I should carry out
> >> to
> >> > try and establish their cause.
> >> > Thank you
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the serial mouse not working, check your bios settings
> >> to make sure that port is enabled...
> >> you may want to set it to "auto". or:
> >> If the machine has a ps/2 port, just use a ps/2 mouse.
> >>
> >> As to the machine locking up...
> >> It could be a lot of things...but I generally suggest running a RAM test
> >> first
> >> as H/W problems can often cause a "lockup"
> >>
> >> Lockups are also caused by overheating...
> >> but a P-120 generally does not require too much cooling...
> >> With a large enough heatsink...a fan is not necessarily required...
> >> but I'd have a look to make sure the heatsink is properly secured...
> >> A p-120 without a heat sink at all, will overheat
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>

jj mac · Sep 9, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Thanks Buffalo
I intend to reseat the ram modules as you have suggested. There are four
RAM slots which are fully utilised. 2No 16MB Modules & 2No. 4MB modules.
I would like to replace these with a single module of 125 MB if that is
permissible, if not with a single 64MB module
The mouse surprisingly started to work today. I rebooted the Computer on a
number of occasions and it continued to work. I noticed that the mouse was
loosely attached to the serial port so I inserted it fully and fastened the
retaining studs.. After doing so the mouse continued to work but after
closing the Computer down the next time I rebooted it there was a return of
the old error message “the Computer could not detect a mouse---“ This would
seem to indicate a fault in COM docking port. I have examined the pins and
they all seem to be OK. The ribbon cable is attached to the pins within the
moulded body of the Port and cannot be accessed.. The ribbon itself appears
to be intact. I have tried two other working serial mice and the Computer
would not detect these either. Device manager reports that the COM1 port is
working properly and has an imput/output address 03F8-03FF. There is
something amiss somewhere.

Thanks for your help

--
JJ MacA

"Buffalo" wrote:

>
>
> jj mac wrote:
> > My Win98SE Computer has the following Specification :
> >
> > Intel Pentium 120 Mhz
> > 40MB RAM
> > 1MB PCI Graphics Card
> > 2No. HDDs Drive C: 4086MB (3871MB free) Fat 32
> > Drive D: 1025MB (262MB free) Fat 32
> > Intel i430 FX Triton Motherboard.
> > 5 port USB2 PCI adapter card installed
> > Operating System : Windows 98 4.10.2222A
> >
> > This Computer has developed the following faults which may be related.
> >
> > 1 During bootup I am getting an error message "Windows did not
> > detect a mouse attached to this Computer". By installing a wireless
> > mouse (attached to a USB port) instead of the serial mouse I am able
> > to overcome that problem but the Serial Port fault remains. I have
> > checked the serial mouse on another Computer and it is OK.
> >
> > 2. The Computer freezes sometimes during bootup but more often two
> > or three mouse clicks after opening a program. When that happens all
> > I can do is switch off the power plug & during reboot wait while the
> > computer runs ScanDisk.
> >
> > Win 98SE is installed in Drive C. In an attempt to correct these
> > problems I reformatted drive C and reinstalled Win 98SE from its
> > original CD. I now realise that by doing so I have lost all of the
> > Win98 updates and IE ver.5 has been installed. As a result the mouse
> > problem remains, and although I have not reloaded any programs after
> > the reformat , the Computer freezes have worsened ,
> > The Computer is now virtually unusable.
> > I have a number of programs installed on the second HD ,drive D, but
> > assume that they would have no bearing on the problems.
> >
> > I have a Broadband Ethernet connection with another desktop Computer
> > and a wireless connection with a laptop. This old Computer is not
> > connected to the internet at present. If I can resolve these issues
> > I would then hope to add a Broadband connection from my router using
> > a USB LAN to Ethernet adapter.
> >
> > The only additional hardware recently installed was the USB2 adapter
> > card. I recall that the card was supplied with an installation disk
> > but to get it to work properly I had to download and install an
> > additional Win 98 Mass Storage driver. The USB2 ports are working
> > perfectly. I suppose the card could be causing a conflict but if
> > so it was not immediately apparent. If I remove the card to check
> > out whether or not it is causing a conflict I would have no control
> > of the cursor. I cannot find any keyboard control thereof possibly
> > caused by the mouse /com port fault.
> > After reinstalling Win 98se I removed the Modem (internal) card as its
> > drivers appeared not to have installed properly.
> > I would appreciate advice as to what is the likely cause of these
> > problems, there resolution, or on what trouble shooting measures I
> > should carry out to try and establish their cause.
> > Thank you
>
> One simple thing to try is to remove and reseat the ram modules. Their
> contacts can get oxidized and just removing them and reseating them often
> ensures better contact. You may even want to try different ram, if you have
> it or remove the 8MB stick and try just the 32MB stick.
> This is easy and doesn't cost anything and is worth a try.
> Like others have pointed out, the PSU may be weak and failing (perhaps it is
> totally plugged up with dust and/or its fan quit
> functioning).
> The serial mouse problem could be a bent or broken pin in the PC socket or
> perhaps one of the wires going to it is broken or shorted out. Make sure the
> BIOS is recognizing the serial port and that its address is correct.
>
>
>

glee · Sep 9, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

"jj mac" <jj mac@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B747B9D4-4028-42D2-90E9-E79E276C1D56@microsoft.com...
> snip
> I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
> the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
> and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
> 98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
> snip

Try OnTrack DataAdvisor instead:
http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com/data-recovery-downloads/#harddrive

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Franc Zabkar · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:15:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
>the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
>and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
>98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.

I don't believe it. A DOS program that fits on a floppy diskette
should not require 64MB of RAM. In fact I just ran SeaTools for DOS on
a 486 box with 48MB of RAM.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

glee · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:amrec4t9fi1ogt74ika8996tio0noqnb8h@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:15:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
>>the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
>>and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
>>98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
>
> I don't believe it. A DOS program that fits on a floppy diskette
> should not require 64MB of RAM. In fact I just ran SeaTools for DOS on
> a 486 box with 48MB of RAM.

I don't believe it either, Franc. I've run Seatools for DOS on really old hardware.
Just checking.....did you use the latest version on that 486 box? I usually use an
older version of Seatools on the older boxes, since I have older versions archived
here.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Franc Zabkar · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:34:57 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:amrec4t9fi1ogt74ika8996tio0noqnb8h@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:15:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
>> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>>I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
>>>the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
>>>and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
>>>98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
>>
>> I don't believe it. A DOS program that fits on a floppy diskette
>> should not require 64MB of RAM. In fact I just ran SeaTools for DOS on
>> a 486 box with 48MB of RAM.
>
>I don't believe it either, Franc. I've run Seatools for DOS on really old hardware.
>Just checking.....did you use the latest version on that 486 box? I usually use an
>older version of Seatools on the older boxes, since I have older versions archived
>here.

I used SeaTools for DOS v1.09 which I downloaded in November last
year.

ISTR I once used an earlier version that had a file system checking
option. It had a bug that caused it to incorrectly analyse a
particular FAT32 boot sector, so I didn't trust it completely after
that.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

jj mac · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Franc
I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
are as follows:
TI - 70
TMS44409DJ
OE 5A AIE81
Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
correction if necessary.

There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
96141

Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
don’t know where I have gone wrong.
Franc you gave me a web link to a program for testing the RAM which I did
not follow up because I had decided that I would be changing the RAM which I
still intend to do. However, at Glee’s suggestion I have run Windows Memory
Diagnostic Extended Test Suite for 15 hours and no errors were found.
Glad to hear that I should be able to run SEATOOLS on my WIN 98 Computer
with 40MB of RAN notwithstanding the stated min. requirements.
I will try it out in a day or two and let you know how I get on.
Many thanks for all your help not forgetting the clarification of the opus
operandi for testing the COM Port.

--
JJ MacA

"Franc Zabkar" wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:11:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Thank you Franc
> >The COM port is enabled in the BIOS setup. I have not replaced the CMOS
> >battery for about three years but the time and date settings are correct so I
> >am assuming that it is OK.
> >I would like to test the Com Port but before attempting to do so I would
> >like a little bit more advice. When you say to use a paper clip to connect
> >any output pin to any imput pin do you mean to connect say RXD to TXD
>
> Yes, this will verify those two signals.
>
> > or DTR
> >or RTS on the COM port an the computer.?
>
> Connect, say, RTS to CTS, and DTR to DSR, at the same COM port
> connector at the rear of the computer.
>
> > Does the flash appear the same for
> >each connection. ?
>
> The flash rates differ so that the user can easily associate the
> various signals with LEDs in an RS232 breakout box, or with readings
> on a multimeter.
>
> Here is a typical RS232 breakout box:
> http://www.escience.ca/GFX/PRODS/XC-138.jpg
>
> There are other COM port diagnostic programs, but they require a
> special loopback connector, eg http://www.iec.net/l1341.html
>
> >Is there a danger of creating a short if say pin 2 was
> >inadvertently connected to pin 5.?
> >Are any precautions necessary?
> >The Win98 Computer does not have an internet connection. which means that I
> >cannot download directly to it. Instead of testing the RAM I intend to
> >replace it.
> >Thanks for your help
>
> When your mouse stops responding in Windows, hold down Ctrl-Esc, then
> press R, and type the following into the Run box:
>
> C:\WINDOWS\CONTROL.EXE sysdm.cpl,system,1
>
> This should bring up Device Manager.
>
> Now type F to reFresh the device list. If your mouse hardware has
> hung, then this may restart it. Otherwise, if your mouse stops
> responding as a consequence of a general system hang, then this won't
> fix it.
>
> BTW, typical mouse failures include intermittent cables. I had to
> shorten the cable in my mother's serial mouse for the this reason (a
> replacement mouse wasn't available from the local stores).
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>

Franc Zabkar · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Franc
>I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
>Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
>Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
>are as follows:
>TI - 70
>TMS44409DJ
>OE 5A AIE81
>Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
>between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
>correction if necessary.
>
>There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
>The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
>96141

These chips are 1Mx4 EDO 70nsec DRAMs:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms44409.pdf

Each module therefore has a capacity of 4MB.

>Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
>saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
>files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
>files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
>the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
>inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
>know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
>CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
>run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
>don’t know where I have gone wrong.

CCT386.exe is the executable. There are 17 files in the ZIP, including
two .FON files.

I expect that your graphical output will show three levels, the first
at around 8KB or 16KB, the second at around 256KB or 512KB (depending
on your motherboard cache), and the third at around 512KB or 1MB.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

glee · Sep 10, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:9u9gc456b3mgqpg2dvf3g1v79gc17on3pi@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:34:57 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>>news:amrec4t9fi1ogt74ika8996tio0noqnb8h@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:15:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
>>> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>>
>>>>I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
>>>>the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
>>>>and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
>>>>98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
>>>
>>> I don't believe it. A DOS program that fits on a floppy diskette
>>> should not require 64MB of RAM. In fact I just ran SeaTools for DOS on
>>> a 486 box with 48MB of RAM.
>>
>>I don't believe it either, Franc. I've run Seatools for DOS on really old
>>hardware.
>>Just checking.....did you use the latest version on that 486 box? I usually use
>>an
>>older version of Seatools on the older boxes, since I have older versions archived
>>here.
>
> I used SeaTools for DOS v1.09 which I downloaded in November last
> year.
>
> ISTR I once used an earlier version that had a file system checking
> option. It had a bug that caused it to incorrectly analyse a
> particular FAT32 boot sector, so I didn't trust it completely after
> that.

They've got a version 2.x now at the download site, and it has a busier GUI and
mouse support, IIRC. It probably requires more RAM that the 1.x versions, but I
would still be surprised if it required more than the OP's 40MB RAM.
Only one way to find out......try it.

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Franc Zabkar · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:20:48 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:9u9gc456b3mgqpg2dvf3g1v79gc17on3pi@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:34:57 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
>> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>>>news:amrec4t9fi1ogt74ika8996tio0noqnb8h@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:15:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
>>>> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>>>
>>>>>I have been perusing the Seatools for Dos. My HD is Seagate. Unfortunately
>>>>>the System requirements are given as PC with a Pentium or greater processor
>>>>>and a minimum of 64MB of RAM. It looks as though it will not run on a WIN
>>>>>98SE Computer with only 40MB of RAM.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe it. A DOS program that fits on a floppy diskette
>>>> should not require 64MB of RAM. In fact I just ran SeaTools for DOS on
>>>> a 486 box with 48MB of RAM.
>>>
>>>I don't believe it either, Franc. I've run Seatools for DOS on really old
>>>hardware.
>>>Just checking.....did you use the latest version on that 486 box? I usually use
>>>an
>>>older version of Seatools on the older boxes, since I have older versions archived
>>>here.
>>
>> I used SeaTools for DOS v1.09 which I downloaded in November last
>> year.
>>
>> ISTR I once used an earlier version that had a file system checking
>> option. It had a bug that caused it to incorrectly analyse a
>> particular FAT32 boot sector, so I didn't trust it completely after
>> that.
>
>They've got a version 2.x now at the download site, and it has a busier GUI and
>mouse support, IIRC. It probably requires more RAM that the 1.x versions, but I
>would still be surprised if it required more than the OP's 40MB RAM.
>Only one way to find out......try it.

The readme file that came with v1.09 also called for a Pentium and
64MB.

The autoexec.bat file created a 3MB RAM disc into which was extracted
the SeaTools executable ... with about 2MB to spare.

Anyway, I went through the procedure to download the latest version
(V2.07) and got to this page:
http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools/seatooldreg

The requirements were listed as:

====================================================================
You can run SeaTools for DOS to test your disc drive if your PC has:

at least one (1) disc drive. Seagate Technology disc drives will
support enhanced features.

an IBM / Intel compatible PC with a 386 or greater processor.

SVGA 800 x 600 or greater graphics capability.

at least 8 megabytes of RAM.

1.44 megabyte floppy disk or CD-ROM drive for the bootable SeaTools
application.
====================================================================

However, the new readme file once again asks for a Pentium with 64MB
of RAM, but only a 640x480 VGA resolution. <shrug>

V2.07 still runs fine on the 486 box, though, and it still creates a
3MB RAM disc.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

jj mac · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Franc
Many thanks for the information.
Regarding the Celem Cache Test program I downloaded the zip file to memory
stick where i unziped it. The unziped files got mixed with others on the
memory. I identified 5 files which I copied to a floppy disk but there were
clearly others which I missed. I will check that out shortly.

I Have checked the com port on the Computer. (Pin nos.1 to 5 L to R top row

6 to 9 L to R bottom row)
Results:
Pins 2 to 3 No Flash when shorted. DC voltage between pins 12 V
Pins 4 to 6 No Flash when shorted. DC voltage between pins 9V
Pins 7 to 8 No Flash when shorted. DC voltage between pins 9V
Can any conclusions be drawn from these results.?

Thank You

--
JJ MacA

"Franc Zabkar" wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Franc
> >I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
> >Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
> >Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
> >are as follows:
> >TI - 70
> >TMS44409DJ
> >OE 5A AIE81
> >Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
> >between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
> >correction if necessary.
> >
> >There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
> >The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
> >96141
>
> These chips are 1Mx4 EDO 70nsec DRAMs:
> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms44409.pdf
>
> Each module therefore has a capacity of 4MB.
>
> >Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
> >saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
> >files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
> >files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
> >the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
> >inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
> >know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
> >CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
> >run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
> >don’t know where I have gone wrong.
>
> CCT386.exe is the executable. There are 17 files in the ZIP, including
> two .FON files.
>
> I expect that your graphical output will show three levels, the first
> at around 8KB or 16KB, the second at around 256KB or 512KB (depending
> on your motherboard cache), and the third at around 512KB or 1MB.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>

jj mac · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Sorry Franc. I apologise that when I carried out the COM Port tests I
overlooked your program. I had simply booted up the computer and carried out
the tests without using the test progam. Please ignore the results I posted
which are not correct. I will let you have the corrected results as soon as
I carry out the test properly.
--
JJ MacA

"Franc Zabkar" wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Franc
> >I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
> >Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
> >Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
> >are as follows:
> >TI - 70
> >TMS44409DJ
> >OE 5A AIE81
> >Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
> >between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
> >correction if necessary.
> >
> >There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
> >The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
> >96141
>
> These chips are 1Mx4 EDO 70nsec DRAMs:
> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms44409.pdf
>
> Each module therefore has a capacity of 4MB.
>
> >Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
> >saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
> >files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
> >files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
> >the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
> >inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
> >know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
> >CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
> >run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
> >don’t know where I have gone wrong.
>
> CCT386.exe is the executable. There are 17 files in the ZIP, including
> two .FON files.
>
> I expect that your graphical output will show three levels, the first
> at around 8KB or 16KB, the second at around 256KB or 512KB (depending
> on your motherboard cache), and the third at around 512KB or 1MB.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>

Franc Zabkar · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:20:48 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>They've got a version 2.x now at the download site, and it has a busier GUI and
>mouse support, IIRC. It probably requires more RAM that the 1.x versions, but I
>would still be surprised if it required more than the OP's 40MB RAM.

Win95 has a *much* busier GUI and can run in 4MB of RAM (8MB
recommended).

I also recall running Windows 3.11 on a 25MHz 386 box with only 1MB of
RAM.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

jj mac · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Franc

-- Corrected results of COMSTEST
At Start of Test
Com1 was detected at 3F8,F1F0 present
Status of DTR & RTS alternating between + & -
Status of Pin 3 1HZ Status of pin 2 RXD Bad

Start ofTest
PIN 2 joined to PIN 3 NO flash noticed but Status of Pin 2 RXD changes to
OK , back to Bad when the link was broken.

Pin 4 joined to Pin6 No Flash noticed but status of DTR (pin 4) and DSR
(pin6) alternates from + to - in tandem. When separated voltage between
pins alternates + and - 10 V

Pin 7 joined to Pin 8 Status of DTR,RTS&CTS changes in the following
sequence:
No Flash noticed DTR
+ - + -

RTS + - - +

CTS + - - +
Sorry for getting it wrong the first time
JJ MacA

"jj mac" wrote:

> Sorry Franc. I apologise that when I carried out the COM Port tests I
> overlooked your program. I had simply booted up the computer and carried out
> the tests without using the test progam. Please ignore the results I posted
> which are not correct. I will let you have the corrected results as soon as
> I carry out the test properly.
> --
> JJ MacA
>
>
> "Franc Zabkar" wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> > mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
> >
> > >Franc
> > >I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
> > >Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
> > >Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
> > >are as follows:
> > >TI - 70
> > >TMS44409DJ
> > >OE 5A AIE81
> > >Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
> > >between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
> > >correction if necessary.
> > >
> > >There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
> > >The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
> > >96141
> >
> > These chips are 1Mx4 EDO 70nsec DRAMs:
> > http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms44409.pdf
> >
> > Each module therefore has a capacity of 4MB.
> >
> > >Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
> > >saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
> > >files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
> > >files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
> > >the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
> > >inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
> > >know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
> > >CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
> > >run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
> > >don’t know where I have gone wrong.
> >
> > CCT386.exe is the executable. There are 17 files in the ZIP, including
> > two .FON files.
> >
> > I expect that your graphical output will show three levels, the first
> > at around 8KB or 16KB, the second at around 256KB or 512KB (depending
> > on your motherboard cache), and the third at around 512KB or 1MB.
> >
> > - Franc Zabkar
> > --
> > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
> >

glee · Sep 11, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:rs2jc4122jf0cf6rccemq1kgm8vpk40iap@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:20:48 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>They've got a version 2.x now at the download site, and it has a busier GUI and
>>mouse support, IIRC. It probably requires more RAM that the 1.x versions, but I
>>would still be surprised if it required more than the OP's 40MB RAM.
>
> Win95 has a *much* busier GUI and can run in 4MB of RAM (8MB
> recommended).
>
> I also recall running Windows 3.11 on a 25MHz 386 box with only 1MB of
> RAM.

<heh-heh> I still have a 486 laptop with 8MB RAM (upgraded from 4MB) and a 200MB
hard drive, with Win95 Gold. I just got rid of a 386 with 1MB RAM when I moved,
which had Win3.11 installed.

So yes, it would seem Seatools for DOS should not have a problem running on the OP's
computer.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

jj mac · Sep 12, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

I have now run the Celem Cache Test.
The results show that the CCT rises from 3700 to a peak of 3710 at about
4.2KB, drops to 800 at about 11KB,and continues at about 800 to about 260KB,
then drops to about 530 at 406kb and continues at about that level to 2580kb
and beyond.

The peaks are at 2.8kb(3500) , 11kb – 260kb (800) & 400kb – 2580kb and
beyond (530) I am not sure how to interpret the CCT axis.

Do these results mean that L1 cache (CPU) is 2.8KB, L2 Cache (Motherboard)
is 260KB & System RAM is 2580+ KB (the graph continues beyond 2580kb) ?
These results are more precisely shown in the following table:
They differ a little from the figures I read from the graph.

KB CCT %
2 3488 100 CPU Type
4 3582 103 Genuine
intel pentium
8 2572 74
Clock rate
16 826 24
120Mz
32 827 24 Math
Processor
64 826 24
Pentium
128 826 24 32/16
ratio
256 825 24
1.7
512 547 16 BUS
Width
1024 547 16
32 bit
1536 547 16
2048 547 16

The question is can I install more than 64MB of RAM on a motherboard based
on Intel Triton i430 FX chipset with Pipeline Burst Cache. I would like to
replace the 4 modules of EDO DRAM (40MB) with at least 128MB of SDRAM (single
module), if that is permissible.

Your advice is very much appreciated
Regards

--
JJ MacA

"Franc Zabkar" wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
> mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Franc
> >I have ascertained that my motherboard is based on the Intel i430 FX Triton
> >Chipset and was manufactured by Fugutech.
> >Identification marks/Part numbers on the RAM Chips removed from the Computer
> >are as follows:
> >TI - 70
> >TMS44409DJ
> >OE 5A AIE81
> >Note: I had difficulty distinguishing between the letter I and number 1 and
> >between the letter O and the number 0 in the above. Please make any
> >correction if necessary.
> >
> >There are 8 chips ( in 2 groups of 4) on each of the two modules removed.
> >The Modules are made by Texas Instruments with part no. TM124FBK32S - 70
> >96141
>
> These chips are 1Mx4 EDO 70nsec DRAMs:
> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms44409.pdf
>
> Each module therefore has a capacity of 4MB.
>
> >Not having an internet connection on the WIN 98SE computer I downloaded &
> >saved the Celem Cache Test program & on another Computer. I unzipped the
> >files and copied them to floppy disk. The unzipped program contained 5
> >files including 2 No. executable files, CCT386.EXE AND CCT4GW.EXE. I used
> >the Windows startup disk to boot the Computer to an A:\ prompt. I then
> >inserted the floppy containing the Celem test program in drive A, I didn’t
> >know which of the two applications I should run. When I tried to run
> >CCT386.exe I got an error message “A:\CCT*.FON not found”. I then tried to
> >run CCT4GW.exe and got a fatal error “Syntax - DOS4G (executable. xxx)”. I
> >don’t know where I have gone wrong.
>
> CCT386.exe is the executable. There are 17 files in the ZIP, including
> two .FON files.
>
> I expect that your graphical output will show three levels, the first
> at around 8KB or 16KB, the second at around 256KB or 512KB (depending
> on your motherboard cache), and the third at around 512KB or 1MB.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>

MEB · Sep 12, 2008

MEB · Sep 12, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

Oh, that means a maximum of 32megs PER SLOT on a four slot board... that
also means no single module can exceed 32megs.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________

Franc Zabkar · Sep 13, 2008

Re: Mouse not detected and Windows 98SE Freeze issues

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:40:01 -0700, jj mac <jj
mac@discussions.microsoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I have now run the Celem Cache Test.

>The peaks are at 2.8kb(3500) , 11kb – 260kb (800) & 400kb – 2580kb and
>beyond (530) I am not sure how to interpret the CCT axis.
>
>Do these results mean that L1 cache (CPU) is 2.8KB, L2 Cache (Motherboard)
>is 260KB & System RAM is 2580+ KB (the graph continues beyond 2580kb) ?

L1 cache appears to be about 8KB, L2 cache = 256KB. The specs for a
P120 suggest that this CPU should have an 8K data cache and 8K code
cache, so I guess your results are OK. System RAM is 2580+ KB, as you
say.

The test works by "growing" a program until it fits into the amount of
memory being tested. For example, if a program can fit completely into
L1 cache, then it will run at L1 cache speeds. If it overflows L1
cache, then its execution speed will start to degrade until, at double
the cache size, the program loses all benefits associated with the L1
cache and now runs at the speed of L2 cache. Similarly, when it grows
to be twice the size of L2 cache, then it runs at the speed of main
memory. This means you should see a plateau until around 256KB (+L1
cache), then a gradual drop to the next plateau at 512KB (+L1 cache).

>The question is can I install more than 64MB of RAM on a motherboard based
>on Intel Triton i430 FX chipset with Pipeline Burst Cache.

The results are showing that L2 cache is currently enabled and
working. The Celem Cache Test won't tell you if L2 cache will be
completely disabled after you increase the RAM beyond 64MB. You will
need to run the test again afterwards to confirm or disprove this.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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