XP SP3 Details?

[student]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" & trolling.

I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage of
the programs for people over 60 that is available in the state
university system & have read a few years back that such
programs are available at about 40 states. Going back to
school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the narrow-mindedness
of ourselves in different areas, at least it is for me.

My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with mainframes;
& then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem, dec & the mainframe.
The pc's being used were as a substitute for dumb terminals &
documentation until at the end where it was used for data collection.

However, it does seem no one admits to being on either compuserve
or genie isp's when microsoft had official support forums prior
to selling the forum names to the windows user group in
compuserve. I think that the absence of official ms support in the
newsgroups evolved because ms would hear about too many bugs
in the software where it would be difficult to sweep under the rug
& not get paid for the "free support".

On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour
> ...
>
>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an
>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be
>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been a
>> virus? What was the solution?
>
> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign things
> like politics, I find it best to be the most factual and the
> least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions, demonstrably,
> but they are based on experience and not getting bent outta shape
> for a truly minor problem, yet blaming the entire thing on MS.
>
> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us so
> he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer science
> class instead of doing controlled testing and diagnostics,
> starting always with a comprehensive malware scan.
>
> "student" <guest@csus_.edu>
>> wrote in message news:slrnfc4o5s.403.guest@crane.li-po.edu...
>>> It would depend on the "few" bugs wouldn't it? like a report
>>> that doesn't get printed because garbage was coming out of
>>> the printer for that person on the lan printer? especially
>>> the report was for the supervisor.....
>>>
>>> ms support say reload the driver which was already done; ms
>>> support say that there is a virus; user say text only files
>>> can get printed just word docs produce garbage. ms suport
>>> say call you back later & is never here from again.
>>>
>>> A few bugs? I do hope windows isn't ever used on planes or
>>> control equipment in hospitals. The os isn't ready to do the
>>> things that ms claims if bugs & unreliability are acceptable.
>>>
>>> I now shudder that I heard in the news that it is intended to
>>> have windows running some stuff in cars.......the "accidents"
>>> happened, be reasonable, there are million lines of code in
>>> windows, whats a few bugs...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2007-08-14, Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote:
>>>> If indeed you were a programmer particularly a
>>>> micro-programmer then you should have enough experience to
>>>> recognize the complexity of an operating system plus all the
>>>> micro-code that operates the hardware. If you were in
>>>> development you would know that regardless of the amount of
>>>> testing some bugs will show up after release. How can you
>>>> possibly be so critical of a few bugs? Compare today's PC's
>>>> with those of just a few years ago. Be objective not
>>>> emotional. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns998CAD067DE20ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>>> jour ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wed at the hips----------???? Supposing you wrote the OS.
>>>>>> How would you control it and/or keep your customers happy.
>>>>>> Many companies write programs to run with XP (the OS) and
>>>>>> when a problem occurs, MS is immediately blamed. Be
>>>>>> objective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's just say that I've been around MS more than long
>>>>> enough, all the way back to the original PC that didn't
>>>>> even have DOS, that came in with the XT, to understand them
>>>>> pretty well. I don't mean to be vindictively critical, but
>>>>> surely you will admit they have less than a stellar record
>>>>> of their own releases, they have a rep for hiding key parts
>>>>> of their various APIs even from those who buy their
>>>>> development packages all the way back to the SDK, reverse
>>>>> engineering of several versions of the major components of
>>>>> MS Office have been found to contain fairly large
>>>>> percentages of commands and API calls that seem not to be
>>>>> documented, and MS like all commercial companies reserves
>>>>> the rights to control its copyrighted software and give
>>>>> "guidance" to developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't say, BTW, that all problems are MS, I am not at
>>>>> all that naive and not at all an anti-MS bigot to believe
>>>>> that. Rogue and misbehaving applications, especially
>>>>> systems utilities of all kinds, are rampant throughout the
>>>>> 25 years since the first PC, they suffer from their own
>>>>> bugs, side-effects bugs, and the rush to bring new versions
>>>>> to market no matter what. This super competitiveness all
>>>>> the way around makes for not only strange bedfellows but
>>>>> interlocking dependencies that can make full diagnosis of
>>>>> major or even minor systems issue deceptively difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hung up my programmer clothes circa 1995 or so, thus I am
>>>>> more than a little out-of-date for direct knowledge of
>>>>> whence I speak, but in monitoring this and many other NGs,
>>>>> I see no real signs of improvement, if anything, I think
>>>>> the situation is deteriorating. I'm sorry if you feel I am
>>>>> not being objective, let's just say that I am a pragmatist
>>>>> and always suspicious of extravagent claims from ANY
>>>>> developer on either side of problems. Thanks for listening.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns998C98FC72C16ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>>>>> jour ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look closely at all the postings in this group. You'll
>>>>>>>> be amazed that most problems are not caused by MS but by
>>>>>>>> Non MS programs, reg cleaners, and virus detect/scan
>>>>>>>> protection? programs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That may well be true, but the major developers are wed
>>>>>>> at the hips body and soul to the God of Microsoft because
>>>>>>> they must play ball or risk losing their certification.
>>>>>>> But, it is certainly true that reg cleaners in the hands
>>>>>>> of the novices will wreck an otherwise good system and
>>>>>>> are more harm than good most of the time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:03:28 -0000, "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn>
wrote:

> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour
> ...
>
> > Name one. There are some bugs; most every program of
> > significant size has them. However MS fixes theirs instead of
> > blaming others. Did you ever write an error free program?
>
> I sure as hell never came even close to bug free, and I go back to
> mainframe FORTRAN, then Apple ][, then PC. I believe it can be
> shown mathematically that it is impossible to guarantee bug-free
> code, and empirically as software gets more and more complex and
> must operate on more and more new HW and legacy HW and ditto for
> SW, the chances of a bug-free release quickly fade, IMO of course.



Except for the trivial, there is absolutely no such thing as bug-free
software. Any program of any complexity has bugs, and as the size and
complexity rises, so does the number of bugs.

Good software has relatively few bugs, has bugs that don't usually
cause severe consequences, and has bugs that affect only relatively
small numbers of people. No software is perfect.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:53:32 -0500, student <guest@csus_.edu> wrote:

> ms word has a bad problem with grammar. One of my professors told the
> class that she should go on the "warpath" & mark an "F" for the paper
> for the errror in basic grammar. She was stopped only because a student
> told her that it is word & one could not change it to be correct as
> word will override & impose the bad grammatical error. The professor
> said she learned to turn off word's grammar & spell checking.


This is off-topic for this newsgroup as well as not pertinent to the
thread you posted it too, but just a quick reply:

When it comes to computerized grammar checking, the state of the art
is primitive. It's not Microsoft Word that has the problem in
particular, it's all such programs. I'm a WordPerfect user myself, and
grammar checking is just as bad there. None of this is suitable for
checking much more than simple sentences of the Dick and Jane variety,
and I never use it myself.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Robert Moir]

Re: XP SP3 Details?


"Laughingstar~*" <le_sentier_battunospam368@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23lQU5Jo3HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Exactly the reason I program my "Downloads" to be approved by this PC
> owner--Moi! In a public discussion this week, more than 1/3 of those
> present said they've bought IMacs b/c MS keeps coming out with new OS, et
> al, and requiring its consumers to be their R&D. I agree. Its getting to
> be exhausting. Wake up MS.

I think those mac purchasers will be disappointed if they went there because
of Microsoft releasing updates every month.

The current version of Apple's "Tiger" release of OSX is 10.4.10. 10.4.11 is
currently out for testing prior to general release. That's 10 or 11 major
revisions, broadly equal to a service pack, since the release of 10.4.0.
Apple run to at least one patch a month, often more.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Apple here... I'm a Mac user myself
as well as a Windows user and I actually prefer Apple's OS to Microsoft's
one, but neither company gets it 100% right first time and has no need to
issue updates. Neither do the Linux crowd.

 

[Robert Moir]

Re: XP SP3 Details?


"student" <guest@csus_.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnfc437c.3ot.guest@crane.li-po.edu...
> ms not responsible even when the app is an ms app?

That isn't what "unknown" said at all.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote:

>One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only provides you with
>security updates. Never gives you an update for a driver for example.

AND THAT'S A GOOD THING!

Never... NEVER get a driver update from Windows Update.

NEVER

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

student added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

> Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" &
> trolling.
>
> I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage of
> the programs for people over 60 that is available in the state
> university system & have read a few years back that such
> programs are available at about 40 states. Going back to
> school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the
> narrow-mindedness of ourselves in different areas, at least it
> is for me.

There's no such thing as a "professional student" unless you just
enjoy the pain of studying for the helluva it. But, yes, you did
troll us by pleading for help in a naive way without telling the
truth about what you were trying to accomplish, which is why I
whacked you. If you're going to be a pro student, then you'd best
learn how to do independent study of both printed and web/Usenet-
based literature and not try to con more experienced people into
doing your homework for you. That is ineffective in learning as
well as rude.

> My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with
> mainframes; & then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem,
> dec & the mainframe. The pc's being used were as a substitute
> for dumb terminals & documentation until at the end where it
> was used for data collection.
>
> However, it does seem no one admits to being on either
> compuserve or genie isp's when microsoft had official support
> forums prior to selling the forum names to the windows user
> group in compuserve. I think that the absence of official ms
> support in the newsgroups evolved because ms would hear about
> too many bugs in the software where it would be difficult to
> sweep under the rug & not get paid for the "free support".

I go back the the Comuserve days and I DID research the various
manufacturer's libraries, whatever they were called. Today, I go
directly to a manufacturer's web site or at least Google for an
answer. I only come to a support NG, this one or anyone, when
I've completely failed to find mention of my problem and I've
exhausted all attempts even after Googling my brains out.

Besides what I learned about learning in engineering school,
which I described to you in detail, I learned how to learn on my
diverse job assignments from rookie engineer to Senior Manager,
by taking classes, seminars, reading, and later, Internet
research. And, I GENTLY worked with those more knowledgeble than
me to learn, but NEVER just blindly hit them up for a solution
because /I/ wanted to figure it out on my own. When other people
do your work for you, and my daughter used to try to con me into
that through her entire 16 years of formal education, you really
do fail to grasp what is happening. Eistein said it best:

"Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different
outcome." Get on the stick, learn the best methods for you to
learn whatever a pro student wants to, and go for it. I have had
a philsophy since my youth that I believe can be summed up this
way: learning is a lifetime endeavor. Today, besides Googling,
for non-technical things, I haunt cable news and the more factual
cable channels, but THEN /I/ verify the new information on my own
to decide if it is truth or fiction. Works well, give it a try.

> On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>> jour ...
>>
>>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an
>>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be
>>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been a
>>> virus? What was the solution?
>>
>> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign
>> things like politics, I find it best to be the most factual
>> and the least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions,
>> demonstrably, but they are based on experience and not
>> getting bent outta shape for a truly minor problem, yet
>> blaming the entire thing on MS.
>>
>> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us so
>> he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer science
>> class instead of doing controlled testing and diagnostics,
>> starting always with a comprehensive malware scan.
>>
>> "student" <guest@csus_.edu>
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnfc4o5s.403.guest@crane.li-po.edu...
>>>> It would depend on the "few" bugs wouldn't it? like a
>>>> report that doesn't get printed because garbage was coming
>>>> out of the printer for that person on the lan printer?
>>>> especially the report was for the supervisor.....
>>>>
>>>> ms support say reload the driver which was already done; ms
>>>> support say that there is a virus; user say text only files
>>>> can get printed just word docs produce garbage. ms suport
>>>> say call you back later & is never here from again.
>>>>
>>>> A few bugs? I do hope windows isn't ever used on planes or
>>>> control equipment in hospitals. The os isn't ready to do
>>>> the things that ms claims if bugs & unreliability are
>>>> acceptable.
>>>>
>>>> I now shudder that I heard in the news that it is intended
>>>> to have windows running some stuff in cars.......the
>>>> "accidents" happened, be reasonable, there are million
>>>> lines of code in windows, whats a few bugs...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2007-08-14, Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote:
>>>>> If indeed you were a programmer particularly a
>>>>> micro-programmer then you should have enough experience to
>>>>> recognize the complexity of an operating system plus all
>>>>> the micro-code that operates the hardware. If you were in
>>>>> development you would know that regardless of the amount
>>>>> of testing some bugs will show up after release. How can
>>>>> you possibly be so critical of a few bugs? Compare today's
>>>>> PC's with those of just a few years ago. Be objective not
>>>>> emotional. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns998CAD067DE20ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>>>> jour ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wed at the hips----------???? Supposing you wrote the
>>>>>>> OS. How would you control it and/or keep your customers
>>>>>>> happy. Many companies write programs to run with XP (the
>>>>>>> OS) and when a problem occurs, MS is immediately
>>>>>>> blamed. Be objective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's just say that I've been around MS more than long
>>>>>> enough, all the way back to the original PC that didn't
>>>>>> even have DOS, that came in with the XT, to understand
>>>>>> them pretty well. I don't mean to be vindictively
>>>>>> critical, but surely you will admit they have less than a
>>>>>> stellar record of their own releases, they have a rep for
>>>>>> hiding key parts of their various APIs even from those
>>>>>> who buy their development packages all the way back to
>>>>>> the SDK, reverse engineering of several versions of the
>>>>>> major components of MS Office have been found to contain
>>>>>> fairly large percentages of commands and API calls that
>>>>>> seem not to be documented, and MS like all commercial
>>>>>> companies reserves the rights to control its copyrighted
>>>>>> software and give "guidance" to developers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't say, BTW, that all problems are MS, I am not at
>>>>>> all that naive and not at all an anti-MS bigot to believe
>>>>>> that. Rogue and misbehaving applications, especially
>>>>>> systems utilities of all kinds, are rampant throughout
>>>>>> the 25 years since the first PC, they suffer from their
>>>>>> own bugs, side-effects bugs, and the rush to bring new
>>>>>> versions to market no matter what. This super
>>>>>> competitiveness all the way around makes for not only
>>>>>> strange bedfellows but interlocking dependencies that can
>>>>>> make full diagnosis of major or even minor systems issue
>>>>>> deceptively difficult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hung up my programmer clothes circa 1995 or so, thus I
>>>>>> am more than a little out-of-date for direct knowledge of
>>>>>> whence I speak, but in monitoring this and many other
>>>>>> NGs, I see no real signs of improvement, if anything, I
>>>>>> think the situation is deteriorating. I'm sorry if you
>>>>>> feel I am not being objective, let's just say that I am a
>>>>>> pragmatist and always suspicious of extravagent claims
>>>>>> from ANY developer on either side of problems. Thanks for
>>>>>> listening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Xns998C98FC72C16ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion
>>>>>>>> du jour ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look closely at all the postings in this group. You'll
>>>>>>>>> be amazed that most problems are not caused by MS but
>>>>>>>>> by Non MS programs, reg cleaners, and virus
>>>>>>>>> detect/scan protection? programs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That may well be true, but the major developers are wed
>>>>>>>> at the hips body and soul to the God of Microsoft
>>>>>>>> because they must play ball or risk losing their
>>>>>>>> certification. But, it is certainly true that reg
>>>>>>>> cleaners in the hands of the novices will wreck an
>>>>>>>> otherwise good system and are more harm than good most
>>>>>>>> of the time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Ken Blake, MVP added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

> Except for the trivial, there is absolutely no such thing as
> bug-free software. Any program of any complexity has bugs, and
> as the size and complexity rises, so does the number of bugs.
>
> Good software has relatively few bugs, has bugs that don't
> usually cause severe consequences, and has bugs that affect
> only relatively small numbers of people. No software is
> perfect.
>
During the very earliest days of digital computing,
mathematicians helping the programmers developed quantitative
measures to estimate and predict the likelihood of bugs depending
on the complexity of the job. That branch of math is far, far
more sophisticated today, as you obviously know, Ken. Modern
development is on such a large scale that no one understands even
a fraction of the full range of the project so teamwork and
computerized testing are the norm, such as automated regression
testing to verify that all or the vast majority of past bugs do
not reappear and new side-effects bugs don't crop up. Still, as
you say, there simply is no such thing as bug-free, often not
even any real guarantee of stability. On something as large as XP
or Vista, and even with the thousands of pieces of HW and SW that
MS maintains for testing, and despite hundreds of thousands of
various kinds of beta testing, it is indeed a challenge for them
to produce good code. Despite mine or other's views that MS could
do better, I do not at all think they are so stupid or greedy as
to intentionally kite the testing and release prematurely. They
showed good judgment and restraint by delaying Vista, for
example, when it was discovered that it did not meet internal
standards for quality.

Now, having puffed up my friends in Redmond, maintaining support
for legacy HW and SW going back all the way to DOS is a major
impediment to getting bug-free code these days. It is a tough
job, and probably doomed to failure. However, I generally agree
with your assessment that the number of people grievously
affected tends to be small.

By analogy to people's private lives it has been said that "when
your neighbor is laid off, it is a recession but when you are
laid off, it is a depression", meaning that if you are of even a
small percentage of affected users of some major or even minor
failure, it begins to almost instantly loom totally out-of-
control as you more and more desperately search for a solution.
I've been there, done that, and have never been really that
complimentary to MS, but DO understand their frustrations.

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Robert Moir added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

>
> "student" <guest@csus_.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrnfc437c.3ot.guest@crane.li-po.edu...
>> ms not responsible even when the app is an ms app?
>
> That isn't what "unknown" said at all.
>
MS is never responsible for mistakes made by other developers, SO
LONG AS the developers are kept well into the loop so that
they're aware of upcoming changes and warned of what the
independent developers must do to be compatible with a major
release of Windows. But, many people, certainly me, have legacy
apps back to 98 or early XP that are no longer available or the
user does not like or cannot afford to upgrade all of their apps
and utilities. THIS is where the real problems come from. They
expect one brand of Windows and were tested for it, but have no
clue how an SP or 2 or a major rewrite like Vista might affect
them, hence they fail either minorly or disastrously. Ditto for
HW drivers and other crucial systems software for legacy HW.

It is this, coupled with not wanting to beta test with my Visa
card, that causes me to delay upgrading to major new releases
until I am confident that the major issues have at least been
identified and I can evaluate the likelihood of a major outtage.
Some say I am a Luddite and overly cautious, but it has saved me
much grief. I waited over a year for SP2 and only had one hiccup,
which turned out to be a failure of the old Roxio 5 optical
burning utility not being compatible. That one took me 6 months
to resolve because I could not identify what was causing it until
a techie, my nephew, asked me the simple question "do you think a
driver may be at fault somewhere?" Sure enough! Deleted the
errant drive and bought Roxio 8, end of problem. So, I will not
go to Vista until my next PC, as I want one with far more memory
and more CPU than even the good system I have today, I want
others to debug Vista for me for a year, and I WILL be OK then.

I'm sorry to have to say this, and it is hardly limited to MS,
but I simply cannot fathom the mad rush so many people have to be
early adopters ANY new SW or O/S. I used to be that way but
discovered that I was spending more time beating my system into
working than I was using it for useful tasks. That happened mid-
1995, and I simply stopped my own mad rush to always have the
latest. Since then, I have been far, far more stable.

So, it is doubtful I will ever go to SP3 because their are
critical updates that will be in it that I declined to install
because I lurked on these support NGs and discovered problems
that I strongly suspected would affect me. That's my decision, f
course, and others enjoy the freedom and the right to upgrade
when - or if- they choose to.

Thanks to listening and have a great day!

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Uncle Grumpy added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote:
>
>>One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only provides
>>you with security updates. Never gives you an update for a
>>driver for example.
>
> AND THAT'S A GOOD THING!
>
> Never... NEVER get a driver update from Windows Update.
>
> NEVER
>
I SO STRONGLY AGREE THAT IT IS DIFFICULT NOT TO BE SO STRIDENT AS
TO POST IN ALL CAPS! ALWAYS, ALWAYS, /ALWAYS/ GET DRIVERS FROM THE
HW MANUFACTURER IF THEY HAVE THEM!

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[Bogey Man]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only provides you with
> security updates. Never gives you an update for a driver for example. I do
> my updates manually and on at least two occasions stopped a download that
> should NOT have been presented.

I would never let MS update automatically update any driver for hardware.
Get the updates from the manufacturer of the equipment.

 

[Unknown]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

I never automatically update anything. But when I do a manual update I
carefully read what it applies to and then do it.
Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic example. I will say,
there are some I refuse to download and install.
"Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message
news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only provides you with
>> security updates. Never gives you an update for a driver for example. I
>> do my updates manually and on at least two occasions stopped a download
>> that should NOT have been presented.
>
> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver for hardware.
> Get the updates from the manufacturer of the equipment.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:10:51 -0000, "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn>
wrote:

> Despite mine or other's views that MS could
> do better, I do not at all think they are so stupid or greedy as
> to intentionally kite the testing and release prematurely. They
> showed good judgment and restraint by delaying Vista, for
> example, when it was discovered that it did not meet internal
> standards for quality.


I think we are very close to complete agreement on all of this. I
wanted to add just one more comment.

Yes, of course Microsoft could do better. Every software developer
could do better. If they tested longer and released later, they would
have better code.

But that's always true. Take that to its logical conclusion and you
test forever (because there are *always* more bugs to be found), and
nothing ever gets released.

So what happens whenever a company has software being tested? The
marketing people want to get it out the door sooner and say "it's good
enough," and the QA people say "no it's not ready yet." Ultimately
management has to strike a balance, decide who to believe, and decide
when to release it. Some companies clearly do a much better job of
balancing these factors than others do. In my view Microsoft does at
least as good as job of this as most companies do. But it's always
important to remember that the decision is always a compromise, and
the software can never be perfect.

Didn't you and I have a very similar discussion on this very subject a
while back?

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Ken Blake, MVP added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

>> Despite mine or other's views that MS could
>> do better, I do not at all think they are so stupid or greedy
>> as to intentionally kite the testing and release prematurely.
>> They showed good judgment and restraint by delaying Vista,
>> for example, when it was discovered that it did not meet
>> internal standards for quality.
>
> I think we are very close to complete agreement on all of
> this. I wanted to add just one more comment.
>
> Yes, of course Microsoft could do better. Every software
> developer could do better. If they tested longer and released
> later, they would have better code.
>
> But that's always true. Take that to its logical conclusion
> and you test forever (because there are *always* more bugs to
> be found), and nothing ever gets released.

Ken, I cannot think of ANY company in ANY market segment of ANY
economy, whether it be PC-related, services, home products, the
car biz, anything at all that is either a "soft" or "hard"
product that cannot do better. That is the nature of humans and a
stark reality of the brutal competition going on in a globalized
econometric model.

So, the question isn't that MS or Adobe or Corel or anybody
couldn't do better and shouldn't strive to do better, it is a
fact of life in corporate America today, and also in off-shore
companies competing here, that they much be ever more diligent to
ensure the proper balance between benefits and risks of ANYthing
they do and a proper balance between the cost of improving
whatever it is they sell against the real or even perceived
improvement by the customer. And, whether we like it or not,
product cycles are dropping like a rock as all the SW and HW
companies accelerate their efforts to generate both new sales and
upgrade revenue. All this adds up to hiccups along the way.
Again, I do not, not NOT think that ANY company, certainly not
MS, that would EVER intentionally harm its customer base. That is
the fastest way to a bad rep that can be devastatingly costly in
both the short- and long-run.

> So what happens whenever a company has software being tested?
> The marketing people want to get it out the door sooner and
> say "it's good enough," and the QA people say "no it's not
> ready yet." Ultimately management has to strike a balance,
> decide who to believe, and decide when to release it. Some
> companies clearly do a much better job of balancing these
> factors than others do. In my view Microsoft does at least as
> good as job of this as most companies do. But it's always
> important to remember that the decision is always a
> compromise, and the software can never be perfect.

Precisely. In my world of cars, albeit I am now retired, we face
the exact same pressures. We MUST improve quality against fierce
global competitors but we MUST also lower prices, again to meet
competition, primarily from Asia, principly China coming on
strong. And, engineers, analgously to software developers, NEVER
think it is good enough while Sales and Marketing weanies NEVER
think they are fast enough. As a play on words with real estate,
it is balance, balance, balance in these mutually exclusive
criteria.

> Didn't you and I have a very similar discussion on this very
> subject a while back?
>
Yes. And, I think we've BOTH come a long, long way in toning down
our rhetoric, which I certainly appreciate from you and the other
MVPs. I suppose you and I, and the others in this thread, could
say "same church, different pew" this time around, but the basic
notion is NEVER resolved because the upgrade du jour is
constantly changing, this time it is SP3, not long ago it was
Vista. And, new people come in with new or even the same
frustrations that have never engaged in the discussion before.

To put it in a nutshell, if ALL of us, and that sure as hell
includes me!, would stay factual and avoid emotional or
hysterican responses or stereotypical notions, we'll all do much
better. Agree with that?

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Bogey Man added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only
>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an update
>> for a driver for example. I do my updates manually and on at
>> least two occasions stopped a download that should NOT have
>> been presented.
>
> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver
> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the
> equipment.
>
Again, I cannot overemphasize my stong agreement with your
statement. Even far more than a MS or other SW general upgrade,
IMO, the biggest single cause of major PC system blowdowns is an
errant driver. And, while the manufacturers do release buggy
drivers, they have the advantage of knowing more than anyone how
their HW works as well as being able to maintain trade secrets that
they will not release to MS.

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a manual
> update I carefully read what it applies to and then do it.
> Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic example.
> I will say, there are some I refuse to download and install.

Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing the
2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a couple of
problems reported but no one else moaned, so I decided it was safe.
And, yes, I DID set my own RP.

> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message
> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only
>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an
>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually
>>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that should
>>> NOT have been presented.
>>
>> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver
>> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the
>> equipment.
>
>
>



--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[student]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

On 2007-08-16, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
> student added these comments in the current discussion du jour
> ...
>
>> Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" &
>> trolling.
>>
>> I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage of
>> the programs for people over 60 that is available in the state
>> university system & have read a few years back that such
>> programs are available at about 40 states. Going back to
>> school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the
>> narrow-mindedness of ourselves in different areas, at least it
>> is for me.
>
> There's no such thing as a "professional student" unless you just
> enjoy the pain of studying for the helluva it. But, yes, you did
> troll us by pleading for help in a naive way without telling the
> truth about what you were trying to accomplish, which is why I
> whacked you. If you're going to be a pro student, then you'd best
> learn how to do independent study of both printed and web/Usenet-
> based literature and not try to con more experienced people into
> doing your homework for you. That is ineffective in learning as
> well as rude.

The "professional student" is my own comment on what I'm doing; just
like others "coined" their own descriptions of whatever including
the interpretation of meanings. I didn't "troll" nor did I ask
for help; it was a comment. "Independent study" appears to be
"googling" for answers which has another set of problems as
the results depend on how the the search is worded & in what
sequence. Telling people to google for answers imply that
the commentator believe the end-all & final answers are found
via google, even if the last comment found was a year or more
old.


>
>> My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with
>> mainframes; & then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem,
>> dec & the mainframe. The pc's being used were as a substitute
>> for dumb terminals & documentation until at the end where it
>> was used for data collection.
>>
>> However, it does seem no one admits to being on either
>> compuserve or genie isp's when microsoft had official support
>> forums prior to selling the forum names to the windows user
>> group in compuserve. I think that the absence of official ms
>> support in the newsgroups evolved because ms would hear about
>> too many bugs in the software where it would be difficult to
>> sweep under the rug & not get paid for the "free support".
>
> I go back the the Comuserve days and I DID research the various
> manufacturer's libraries, whatever they were called. Today, I go
> directly to a manufacturer's web site or at least Google for an
> answer. I only come to a support NG, this one or anyone, when
> I've completely failed to find mention of my problem and I've
> exhausted all attempts even after Googling my brains out.
>
The manufacturer's libraies only and not their forum mail or
whatever its called; I haven't found a manufacturer's libraries
contain any of the msgs on their forums.

> Besides what I learned about learning in engineering school,
> which I described to you in detail, I learned how to learn on my
> diverse job assignments from rookie engineer to Senior Manager,
> by taking classes, seminars, reading, and later, Internet
> research. And, I GENTLY worked with those more knowledgeble than
> me to learn, but NEVER just blindly hit them up for a solution
> because /I/ wanted to figure it out on my own. When other people
> do your work for you, and my daughter used to try to con me into
> that through her entire 16 years of formal education, you really
> do fail to grasp what is happening. Eistein said it best:
>
> "Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different
> outcome." Get on the stick, learn the best methods for you to
> learn whatever a pro student wants to, and go for it. I have had
> a philsophy since my youth that I believe can be summed up this
> way: learning is a lifetime endeavor. Today, besides Googling,
> for non-technical things, I haunt cable news and the more factual
> cable channels, but THEN /I/ verify the new information on my own
> to decide if it is truth or fiction. Works well, give it a try.

It does appear you believe most/many questions for solutions in the
newsgroups are done by people who don't do any research for answers
& ask because of limited resources or believe that they hit a
"stone wall". The news media are commentators. Why do you think
I'm visiting various newsgroups? It is a source of info whether
accurate or not; have an open mind regarding to people posting
on the newsgroups even if there are exceptions.

The quote doesn't allow for external changes; guess whats been
happening regarding what has been done the "same way" for a very
long time. I even remember that, once the "noble elements" cannot
be combined with another element & believed for decades; until
a high school chem teacher accidently did it. There is no
guarrantee that everything can be done with 100% certainty
"forever", the insanity is to expect 100% certainty in
everything.

Remember about the book 1984? Supposedly a high dictorship
by the "conservatives" but I find that it is the "liberals"
& "consumer groups"/environmentalists who are doing the
dictating currently on what we do or eat or live or play
in lockstep.

BTW, I'm not taking any courses in the computer area
nor am I taking classes for grades.

And on considering where is the problem, the user doesn't usually
know if it is the os or app or driver. And considering the
interactions between all 3 areas, each is often pointing fingers at
the other for the fault and how is one to get "real" proof other
than asking questions & getting different answers from people
who are the knowledgeable experts?

The subject of SP3 caught my eye & naturally I become interested
on when it will be avaliable as well as what potholes one may
encounter. I finally updated to SP2 only because of new hardware
& re-install of winxp.

Once, I asked a question about why a couple of software vendors
were "pushing" SP2 when what I've read prior was that it was "all"
firewall & security & not needed; I was brushed off as a troll
even if the question is legitimate as it appeared to me that ms
wanted vendors to push SP2 as a dialogue would popup saying
there will be many problems if SP2 was not used.

Also read in this newsgroup that said framework 2.0 has everything
that 1.0/1.1 has & yet the Steet Atlas USA 2008 won't install without
1.1 installed........appears some people got info too late....


>
>> On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>> jour ...
>>>
>>>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an
>>>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be
>>>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been a
>>>> virus? What was the solution?
>>>
>>> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign
>>> things like politics, I find it best to be the most factual
>>> and the least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions,
>>> demonstrably, but they are based on experience and not
>>> getting bent outta shape for a truly minor problem, yet
>>> blaming the entire thing on MS.
>>>
>>> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us so
>>> he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer science
>>> class instead of doing controlled testing and diagnostics,
>>> starting always with a comprehensive malware scan.
>>>
>>> "student" <guest@csus_.edu>
>>>> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrnfc4o5s.403.guest@crane.li-po.edu...
>>>>> It would depend on the "few" bugs wouldn't it? like a
>>>>> report that doesn't get printed because garbage was coming
>>>>> out of the printer for that person on the lan printer?
>>>>> especially the report was for the supervisor.....
>>>>>
>>>>> ms support say reload the driver which was already done; ms
>>>>> support say that there is a virus; user say text only files
>>>>> can get printed just word docs produce garbage. ms suport
>>>>> say call you back later & is never here from again.
>>>>>
>>>>> A few bugs? I do hope windows isn't ever used on planes or
>>>>> control equipment in hospitals. The os isn't ready to do
>>>>> the things that ms claims if bugs & unreliability are
>>>>> acceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I now shudder that I heard in the news that it is intended
>>>>> to have windows running some stuff in cars.......the
>>>>> "accidents" happened, be reasonable, there are million
>>>>> lines of code in windows, whats a few bugs...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2007-08-14, Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote:
>>>>>> If indeed you were a programmer particularly a
>>>>>> micro-programmer then you should have enough experience to
>>>>>> recognize the complexity of an operating system plus all
>>>>>> the micro-code that operates the hardware. If you were in
>>>>>> development you would know that regardless of the amount
>>>>>> of testing some bugs will show up after release. How can
>>>>>> you possibly be so critical of a few bugs? Compare today's
>>>>>> PC's with those of just a few years ago. Be objective not
>>>>>> emotional. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns998CAD067DE20ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>>>>> jour ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wed at the hips----------???? Supposing you wrote the
>>>>>>>> OS. How would you control it and/or keep your customers
>>>>>>>> happy. Many companies write programs to run with XP (the
>>>>>>>> OS) and when a problem occurs, MS is immediately
>>>>>>>> blamed. Be objective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's just say that I've been around MS more than long
>>>>>>> enough, all the way back to the original PC that didn't
>>>>>>> even have DOS, that came in with the XT, to understand
>>>>>>> them pretty well. I don't mean to be vindictively
>>>>>>> critical, but surely you will admit they have less than a
>>>>>>> stellar record of their own releases, they have a rep for
>>>>>>> hiding key parts of their various APIs even from those
>>>>>>> who buy their development packages all the way back to
>>>>>>> the SDK, reverse engineering of several versions of the
>>>>>>> major components of MS Office have been found to contain
>>>>>>> fairly large percentages of commands and API calls that
>>>>>>> seem not to be documented, and MS like all commercial
>>>>>>> companies reserves the rights to control its copyrighted
>>>>>>> software and give "guidance" to developers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't say, BTW, that all problems are MS, I am not at
>>>>>>> all that naive and not at all an anti-MS bigot to believe
>>>>>>> that. Rogue and misbehaving applications, especially
>>>>>>> systems utilities of all kinds, are rampant throughout
>>>>>>> the 25 years since the first PC, they suffer from their
>>>>>>> own bugs, side-effects bugs, and the rush to bring new
>>>>>>> versions to market no matter what. This super
>>>>>>> competitiveness all the way around makes for not only
>>>>>>> strange bedfellows but interlocking dependencies that can
>>>>>>> make full diagnosis of major or even minor systems issue
>>>>>>> deceptively difficult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hung up my programmer clothes circa 1995 or so, thus I
>>>>>>> am more than a little out-of-date for direct knowledge of
>>>>>>> whence I speak, but in monitoring this and many other
>>>>>>> NGs, I see no real signs of improvement, if anything, I
>>>>>>> think the situation is deteriorating. I'm sorry if you
>>>>>>> feel I am not being objective, let's just say that I am a
>>>>>>> pragmatist and always suspicious of extravagent claims
>>>>>>> from ANY developer on either side of problems. Thanks for
>>>>>>> listening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:Xns998C98FC72C16ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
>>>>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion
>>>>>>>>> du jour ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look closely at all the postings in this group. You'll
>>>>>>>>>> be amazed that most problems are not caused by MS but
>>>>>>>>>> by Non MS programs, reg cleaners, and virus
>>>>>>>>>> detect/scan protection? programs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That may well be true, but the major developers are wed
>>>>>>>>> at the hips body and soul to the God of Microsoft
>>>>>>>>> because they must play ball or risk losing their
>>>>>>>>> certification. But, it is certainly true that reg
>>>>>>>>> cleaners in the hands of the novices will wreck an
>>>>>>>>> otherwise good system and are more harm than good most
>>>>>>>>> of the time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:53:00 -0000, "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn>
wrote:


> To put it in a nutshell, if ALL of us, and that sure as hell
> includes me!, would stay factual and avoid emotional or
> hysterican responses or stereotypical notions, we'll all do much
> better. Agree with that?



Of course.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

student added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

> On 2007-08-16, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
>> student added these comments in the current discussion du
>> jour ...

Are you or are you not the person who asked how to flash a BIOS.
If not, then I owe you an apology. But, if you are, then you
really need to get a life. Whoever DID ask for that later
admitted to taking a college class and didn't understand the
term. Well, "person who said it", that is what college and
learning is all about! One FIRST goes to available sources of
printed or digital literature with as exhausting a search as it
takes, then you do more, and then you do even more. Then, and
only then, do you/"person who asked this" come to a support NG
and ask for help, and even include the nonsensical comment that
they couldn't download anything because they had no O/S.
Everything has an O/S except perhaps a very trivial computer that
you built and are running exclusively from the BIOS.

Even if the latter, it is trivially easy to go to a college or
public library and use THEIR Internet connection. I think the
phrase "Google is your best friend" clearly applies here.

Now, having read/re-read what you said here, it DOES appear that
I mistook you for the troll because of your handle. So, I WILL
apologize for chastizing you inappropriately. Now, whether you're
taking classes for grades, grins, or just for general knowledge,
my advice still stands. Specifically to SP3, I assume that YOU -
i.e., the correct "you" - have the MS KB on your IE toolbar, so
THAT would be the FIRST place I would go and simply search for XP
SP3" and you or anyone in this debate could've figured all this
out.

Finally, I'll repeat my opinion for them who're silently
following this thread: people tell me I'm a bright guy, but it
completely flummoxes me that so many good citizens have some sort
of OCD that compels them to be the first kid on their block with
a new anything, no matter what. By analogy, it is like not diving
into a pool of water until you know how deep it is, which is
PRECISELY what the early SP3 adopters will be doing, and, BTW,
precisely like the growing installed base of Vista users are
doing. WRT Vista, if you're buying a new commercial PC, you're
stuck, but even then, many manufacturers will load XP. I just do
NOT beta test with my Visa card, but I'm more than happy to see
others do that for me.

So, again, I'm sorry I jumped down the wrong throat.

>>> Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" &
>>> trolling.
>>>
>>> I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage
>>> of the programs for people over 60 that is available in the
>>> state university system & have read a few years back that
>>> such programs are available at about 40 states. Going back
>>> to school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the
>>> narrow-mindedness of ourselves in different areas, at least
>>> it is for me.
>>
>> There's no such thing as a "professional student" unless you
>> just enjoy the pain of studying for the helluva it. But, yes,
>> you did troll us by pleading for help in a naive way without
>> telling the truth about what you were trying to accomplish,
>> which is why I whacked you. If you're going to be a pro
>> student, then you'd best learn how to do independent study of
>> both printed and web/Usenet- based literature and not try to
>> con more experienced people into doing your homework for you.
>> That is ineffective in learning as well as rude.
>
> The "professional student" is my own comment on what I'm
> doing; just like others "coined" their own descriptions of
> whatever including the interpretation of meanings. I didn't
> "troll" nor did I ask for help; it was a comment.
> "Independent study" appears to be "googling" for answers which
> has another set of problems as the results depend on how the
> the search is worded & in what sequence. Telling people to
> google for answers imply that the commentator believe the
> end-all & final answers are found via google, even if the last
> comment found was a year or more old.
>
>
>>
>>> My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with
>>> mainframes; & then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem,
>>> dec & the mainframe. The pc's being used were as a
>>> substitute for dumb terminals & documentation until at the
>>> end where it was used for data collection.
>>>
>>> However, it does seem no one admits to being on either
>>> compuserve or genie isp's when microsoft had official
>>> support forums prior to selling the forum names to the
>>> windows user group in compuserve. I think that the absence
>>> of official ms support in the newsgroups evolved because ms
>>> would hear about too many bugs in the software where it
>>> would be difficult to sweep under the rug & not get paid for
>>> the "free support".
>>
>> I go back the the Comuserve days and I DID research the
>> various manufacturer's libraries, whatever they were called.
>> Today, I go directly to a manufacturer's web site or at least
>> Google for an answer. I only come to a support NG, this one
>> or anyone, when I've completely failed to find mention of my
>> problem and I've exhausted all attempts even after Googling
>> my brains out.
>>
> The manufacturer's libraies only and not their forum mail or
> whatever its called; I haven't found a manufacturer's
> libraries contain any of the msgs on their forums.
>
>> Besides what I learned about learning in engineering school,
>> which I described to you in detail, I learned how to learn on
>> my diverse job assignments from rookie engineer to Senior
>> Manager, by taking classes, seminars, reading, and later,
>> Internet research. And, I GENTLY worked with those more
>> knowledgeble than me to learn, but NEVER just blindly hit
>> them up for a solution because /I/ wanted to figure it out on
>> my own. When other people do your work for you, and my
>> daughter used to try to con me into that through her entire
>> 16 years of formal education, you really do fail to grasp
>> what is happening. Eistein said it best:
>>
>> "Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different
>> outcome." Get on the stick, learn the best methods for you to
>> learn whatever a pro student wants to, and go for it. I have
>> had a philsophy since my youth that I believe can be summed
>> up this way: learning is a lifetime endeavor. Today, besides
>> Googling, for non-technical things, I haunt cable news and
>> the more factual cable channels, but THEN /I/ verify the new
>> information on my own to decide if it is truth or fiction.
>> Works well, give it a try.
>
> It does appear you believe most/many questions for solutions
> in the newsgroups are done by people who don't do any research
> for answers & ask because of limited resources or believe that
> they hit a "stone wall". The news media are commentators.
> Why do you think I'm visiting various newsgroups? It is a
> source of info whether accurate or not; have an open mind
> regarding to people posting on the newsgroups even if there
> are exceptions.
>
> The quote doesn't allow for external changes; guess whats been
> happening regarding what has been done the "same way" for a
> very long time. I even remember that, once the "noble
> elements" cannot be combined with another element & believed
> for decades; until a high school chem teacher accidently did
> it. There is no guarrantee that everything can be done with
> 100% certainty "forever", the insanity is to expect 100%
> certainty in everything.
>
> Remember about the book 1984? Supposedly a high dictorship
> by the "conservatives" but I find that it is the "liberals"
> & "consumer groups"/environmentalists who are doing the
> dictating currently on what we do or eat or live or play
> in lockstep.
>
> BTW, I'm not taking any courses in the computer area
> nor am I taking classes for grades.
>
> And on considering where is the problem, the user doesn't
> usually know if it is the os or app or driver. And
> considering the interactions between all 3 areas, each is
> often pointing fingers at the other for the fault and how is
> one to get "real" proof other than asking questions & getting
> different answers from people who are the knowledgeable
> experts?
>
> The subject of SP3 caught my eye & naturally I become
> interested on when it will be avaliable as well as what
> potholes one may encounter. I finally updated to SP2 only
> because of new hardware & re-install of winxp.
>
> Once, I asked a question about why a couple of software
> vendors were "pushing" SP2 when what I've read prior was that
> it was "all" firewall & security & not needed; I was brushed
> off as a troll even if the question is legitimate as it
> appeared to me that ms wanted vendors to push SP2 as a
> dialogue would popup saying there will be many problems if SP2
> was not used.
>
> Also read in this newsgroup that said framework 2.0 has
> everything that 1.0/1.1 has & yet the Steet Atlas USA 2008
> won't install without 1.1 installed........appears some people
> got info too late....
>
>
>>
>>> On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote:
>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>> jour ...
>>>>
>>>>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an
>>>>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be
>>>>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been
>>>>> a virus? What was the solution?
>>>>
>>>> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign
>>>> things like politics, I find it best to be the most factual
>>>> and the least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions,
>>>> demonstrably, but they are based on experience and not
>>>> getting bent outta shape for a truly minor problem, yet
>>>> blaming the entire thing on MS.
>>>>
>>>> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us
>>>> so he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer
>>>> science class instead of doing controlled testing and
>>>> diagnostics, starting always with a comprehensive malware
>>>> scan.

--
HP, aka Jerry

 

[Unknown]

Re: XP SP3 Details?

!6 updates! I haven't had a single problem as yet.
"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message
news:Xns998E839C78A9BReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour
> ...
>
>> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a manual
>> update I carefully read what it applies to and then do it.
>> Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic example.
>> I will say, there are some I refuse to download and install.
>
> Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing the
> 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a couple of
> problems reported but no one else moaned, so I decided it was safe.
> And, yes, I DID set my own RP.
>
>> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message
>> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
>>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only
>>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an
>>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually
>>>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that should
>>>> NOT have been presented.
>>>
>>> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver
>>> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the
>>> equipment.
>>
>>
>>
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> --
> HP, aka Jerry