Windows Vista OEM

  • Thread starter Thread starter DM
  • Start date Start date
Re: OEM

Alias wrote:

> ...Snip FUD to support the License Bait and Switch Con.
>
> Alias

Stick with sheep...it's more your style...LOL!
Frank
 
Re: OEM

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:16:52 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have been thinking of this issue for a while. Not only for Microsoft but
>for any software.
>
>Any hardware, appliance, DVD, cd, vhs, furniture, house, car, etc. we can
>buy/sell/trade to anyone but not software. Why is it that most digital
>products with licenses cant be yard saled away like ma's old sewing machine?
>What happened to the 9/10 rule? My car has a title, license if you will, and
>I can sell it to anyone. My autographed babe ruth card has a certificate of
>authenticity, license if you will, and I can sell it.

Actually, DM, one CAN sell his Microsoft licenses, IF he does it
according to the Microsoft-stated terms for re-sale of such licenses.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from taking all your
licenses, and putting them out for sale in a yard-sale. But you must
abide by the clause concerning re-sale of your license.

Additionally, there are differences in the terms which apply to the
re-sale of an OEM license, and the sale of a Retail product.

Mainly:
1) Retail software licenses may be resold/transferred to another
person, who would then become the holder of that license until he
either dies or transfers the license to another person. This may be
done unconditionally, as long as the original COA, packaging, and
media are transferred. i.e., "One license, for one machine at a time,
for the life of the holder of the license, which license may be
transferred unconditionally to another person at any time."
2) OEM software licenses, on the other hand, while they may be resold
or transferred to another person, who would become the holder of that
license, the original machine upon which the license was originally
installed must accompany the transfer of the license. i.e., "One
license, for one specific machine, which must remain with that machine
for the life of the machine, whether the license is transferred or
not".


>
>
>"Alias" <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>news:OrZbgktgIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:51:22 +0100, Alias
>>> <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>>>>> In tests conducted by Microsoft
>>>> Enough said, the tests are invalid as are most of Carey's posts.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> So, such tests are always invalid when published by Microsoft? That
>>> is the implication you are trying to get over here.
>>
>> MS doesn't want you to buy used copies of Windows. They want you to buy
>> Windows from them.
>>
>> Snip drivel.
>>
>> Alias

--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>
>Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate. Figure
>that one out!

You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
License rather than a Retail license.

It's all about cash-flow, folks.


>
>
>"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>news:uCU8FzqgIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Never purchase software on eBay! It has been found that over
>> 50% of the software offered for sale on auction web sites is
>> actually misrepresented, counterfeit and thus useless!
>>
>> --
>> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows Shell/User
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "DM" wrote:
>>
>> I posted the below in XP's help_and_support forum but I don't think that
>> forum is watched as much as this vista one is. The core question can be
>> answered as if I were doing this with a vista product.
>>
>> --------original post-------------------
>>
>> I want to purchase XP Pro w/ SP2 from someone on eBay. They claim it is
>> "Brand New! Genuine from Microsoft! w/ TECH Support"
>>
>> The only thing is it is an OEM version.
>>
>> I've never bought an operating system by it's self without being
>> preinstalled before. Will this OEM version work for me? What are the
>> limitations on OEM versions?
>>
>> I am replacing my current XP Pro operating system with a new one because I
>> locked the system up by playing with the security policy. Yea, dumb but I
>> was learning and got carried away.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> Frank and Alias please remain calm with this one. You're having enough fun
>> with other posts. You know, I bet you're both either the same person or
>> programmers/gamers sitting across the room/town from one another just
>> having
>> fun. You know there are more appropriate forums for you two with the
>> language you use. Give it a break for a few weeks, at least a day in
>> between
>> each post. Hearing the same words over and over on multiple posts is
>> getting
>> old. Like a couple of us mentioned yesterday, it's entertaining to have a
>> structured/level headed debate but it gets old once the profanity comes
>> out
>> and you keep spinning your wheels. My thoughts and you MICROSOFT given
>> rights to be here.
>>

--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:04:49 -0400, "Jim" <Njj@dh.net> wrote:

>I have NEVER bought a retail version of windows. All OEM on eBay.
>Including 1 WIN 98 3 XP's and 1 Vista.
>Buy from a dealer with decent feedback who has sold other copies of Vista
>that you want.
>
>I have transferred licenses from WIN 98 and Two XP licensees.
>When and IF you have you have to do phone activation, tell them your HDD
>died.
>Not sure how this would pan out for Vista though.
>Honest? Maybe not, but fair? I think so.

Microsoft is not demanding that everyone purchase expensive Vista
Ultimate Retail licenses. Like all other businesses, they do hope to
get the highest return on their investment.

But Microsoft is also pragmatic, and offers a lower-priced alternative
to those who would never think of purchasing expensive retail
licenses.

They do ask their customers who opt in to that lower-priced choice to
abide by the license they wish to purchase. The fact is, unless you
also transferred the machines you originally installed thoses OEMs on,
you did not transfer valid licenses, and so screwed the ones who
received the "licenses" you thought you "transferred".

>
>"DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Op8mKrhgIHA.320@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>I posted the below in XP's help_and_support forum but I don't think that
>>forum is watched as much as this vista one is. The core question can be
>>answered as if I were doing this with a vista product.
>>
>> --------original post-------------------
>>
>> I want to purchase XP Pro w/ SP2 from someone on eBay. They claim it is
>> "Brand New! Genuine from Microsoft! w/ TECH Support"
>>
>> The only thing is it is an OEM version.
>>
>> I've never bought an operating system by it's self without being
>> preinstalled before. Will this OEM version work for me? What are the
>> limitations on OEM versions?
>>
>> I am replacing my current XP Pro operating system with a new one because I
>> locked the system up by playing with the security policy. Yea, dumb but I
>> was learning and got carried away.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>

While I do not advise purchasing software from merchants on eBay, if
you are committed to doing it, keep a few things in mind:

1) A valid Windows License consists of the following items. If either
"a" or "b" below are missing, the license is NOT VALID.
a) The original authentic OEM media
b) The original COA which was provided with the Media
c) The booklet provided with the media and COA.
2) Valid Microsoft media will contain edge-to-edge holograms, which
are part of the assembled media itself, rather than being painted on.
These holograms will be extremely colorful when light shines directly
on them.
3) The COA for Retail Media will be on the Top-Right side of the
original boxing, with the CD Key on a yellow sticker placed on the
media envelope in the box.
4) The COA for OEM Media will either be on the computer case
somewhere, or on a sticker separate from the media in the OEM kit. In
the case of OEM media, there will be no yellow sticker containing the
CD Key, which will be on the COA itself.

A few pieces of advice:
1) NEVER purchase Microsoft software (or any other software, for that
matter) if the price is so ridiculously low that you are immediately
tempted to purchase one or more copies right then and there. These
usually come from the former Soviet Union countries. You can be
assured that this software is all pirated.
2) NEVER purchase Microsoft software for an extremely low price, such
as $50US for Vista Ultimate, etc. See above.
3) Current OEM prices are $95US (Vista Home Basic) - $199 (Vista
Ultimate). These prices, of course, fluctuate with Market conditions,
and will probably be lower or higher by a small margin at any one
time.
4) If I'm not mistaken, ALL "FULL OEM" copies of Vista are called
"System Builder Kits", and are produced by Microsoft itself (or
outsourced to independent distributors).
5) Watch out for spelling and grammatical errors on web pages
advertising Vista for sale cheaply. They usually indicate a foreign
website trying to look like a local one, for the purpose of evicting
greater trust in the reader.

Finally, go to Amazon.com if you want to be assured of a valid Windows
license for a lower price than Microsoft's SRP.


--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

Thanks again to all. It's a good thing I am close to being a lawyer and can
read the legal mumbo jumbo in the clauses. Until now I really never looked
at the extra fine print. Always stopped at the hearsay, don't do this or
that. My fault for not asking the right people or reading before.

However, as I mentioned, I have other than Microsoft products "licenses"
that spell out can not be transferred/sold/etc. at all. After reading
everyone's replies, sounds like Microsoft is a little more consumer friendly
and isn't as greedy as other software companies.

But, now I know how to assess for a good product and vendor to buy that
product.

Also, like Alias mentioned, I think there is an educational issue with the
little guy "common end user" believing they are buying a product rather than
the agreement if you will.

"Donald L McDaniel" <orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote in message
news:6cret3d8429g8i5h493nuger0lh194rqpo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:16:52 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I have been thinking of this issue for a while. Not only for Microsoft but
>>for any software.
>>
>>Any hardware, appliance, DVD, cd, vhs, furniture, house, car, etc. we can
>>buy/sell/trade to anyone but not software. Why is it that most digital
>>products with licenses cant be yard saled away like ma's old sewing
>>machine?
>>What happened to the 9/10 rule? My car has a title, license if you will,
>>and
>>I can sell it to anyone. My autographed babe ruth card has a certificate
>>of
>>authenticity, license if you will, and I can sell it.
>
> Actually, DM, one CAN sell his Microsoft licenses, IF he does it
> according to the Microsoft-stated terms for re-sale of such licenses.
>
> There is absolutely nothing stopping you from taking all your
> licenses, and putting them out for sale in a yard-sale. But you must
> abide by the clause concerning re-sale of your license.
>
> Additionally, there are differences in the terms which apply to the
> re-sale of an OEM license, and the sale of a Retail product.
>
> Mainly:
> 1) Retail software licenses may be resold/transferred to another
> person, who would then become the holder of that license until he
> either dies or transfers the license to another person. This may be
> done unconditionally, as long as the original COA, packaging, and
> media are transferred. i.e., "One license, for one machine at a time,
> for the life of the holder of the license, which license may be
> transferred unconditionally to another person at any time."
> 2) OEM software licenses, on the other hand, while they may be resold
> or transferred to another person, who would become the holder of that
> license, the original machine upon which the license was originally
> installed must accompany the transfer of the license. i.e., "One
> license, for one specific machine, which must remain with that machine
> for the life of the machine, whether the license is transferred or
> not".
>
>
>>
>>
>>"Alias" <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:OrZbgktgIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:51:22 +0100, Alias
>>>> <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>>>>>> In tests conducted by Microsoft
>>>>> Enough said, the tests are invalid as are most of Carey's posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>> So, such tests are always invalid when published by Microsoft? That
>>>> is the implication you are trying to get over here.
>>>
>>> MS doesn't want you to buy used copies of Windows. They want you to buy
>>> Windows from them.
>>>
>>> Snip drivel.
>>>
>>> Alias
>
> --
> Donald L McDaniel
>
> How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
> something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
> keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
> 30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
> bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
> "cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
> decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

Exactly; biggest bang for my buck!





"Donald L McDaniel" <orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote in message
news:ndset31fa7vgo17cggs3kvmlqfl1ov69nn@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>>will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>>
>>Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate.
>>Figure
>>that one out!
>
> You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
> However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
> but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
> especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
> License rather than a Retail license.
>
> It's all about cash-flow, folks.
>
>
>>
>>
>>"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:uCU8FzqgIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Never purchase software on eBay! It has been found that over
>>> 50% of the software offered for sale on auction web sites is
>>> actually misrepresented, counterfeit and thus useless!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carey Frisch
>>> Microsoft MVP
>>> Windows Shell/User
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "DM" wrote:
>>>
>>> I posted the below in XP's help_and_support forum but I don't think that
>>> forum is watched as much as this vista one is. The core question can be
>>> answered as if I were doing this with a vista product.
>>>
>>> --------original post-------------------
>>>
>>> I want to purchase XP Pro w/ SP2 from someone on eBay. They claim it is
>>> "Brand New! Genuine from Microsoft! w/ TECH Support"
>>>
>>> The only thing is it is an OEM version.
>>>
>>> I've never bought an operating system by it's self without being
>>> preinstalled before. Will this OEM version work for me? What are the
>>> limitations on OEM versions?
>>>
>>> I am replacing my current XP Pro operating system with a new one because
>>> I
>>> locked the system up by playing with the security policy. Yea, dumb but
>>> I
>>> was learning and got carried away.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank and Alias please remain calm with this one. You're having enough
>>> fun
>>> with other posts. You know, I bet you're both either the same person or
>>> programmers/gamers sitting across the room/town from one another just
>>> having
>>> fun. You know there are more appropriate forums for you two with the
>>> language you use. Give it a break for a few weeks, at least a day in
>>> between
>>> each post. Hearing the same words over and over on multiple posts is
>>> getting
>>> old. Like a couple of us mentioned yesterday, it's entertaining to have
>>> a
>>> structured/level headed debate but it gets old once the profanity comes
>>> out
>>> and you keep spinning your wheels. My thoughts and you MICROSOFT given
>>> rights to be here.
>>>
>
> --
> Donald L McDaniel
>
> How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
> something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
> keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
> 30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
> bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
> "cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
> decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>> will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>>
>> Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate. Figure
>> that one out!
>
> You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
> However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
> but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
> especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
> License rather than a Retail license.

Um, to buy a copy of a generic OEM, be it XP or Vista, one has to also
buy a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard.

> It's all about cash-flow, folks.

It certainly isn't about concern for the paying customer.

Alias


>
>
>>
>> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uCU8FzqgIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Never purchase software on eBay! It has been found that over
>>> 50% of the software offered for sale on auction web sites is
>>> actually misrepresented, counterfeit and thus useless!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carey Frisch
>>> Microsoft MVP
>>> Windows Shell/User
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "DM" wrote:
>>>
>>> I posted the below in XP's help_and_support forum but I don't think that
>>> forum is watched as much as this vista one is. The core question can be
>>> answered as if I were doing this with a vista product.
>>>
>>> --------original post-------------------
>>>
>>> I want to purchase XP Pro w/ SP2 from someone on eBay. They claim it is
>>> "Brand New! Genuine from Microsoft! w/ TECH Support"
>>>
>>> The only thing is it is an OEM version.
>>>
>>> I've never bought an operating system by it's self without being
>>> preinstalled before. Will this OEM version work for me? What are the
>>> limitations on OEM versions?
>>>
>>> I am replacing my current XP Pro operating system with a new one because I
>>> locked the system up by playing with the security policy. Yea, dumb but I
>>> was learning and got carried away.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank and Alias please remain calm with this one. You're having enough fun
>>> with other posts. You know, I bet you're both either the same person or
>>> programmers/gamers sitting across the room/town from one another just
>>> having
>>> fun. You know there are more appropriate forums for you two with the
>>> language you use. Give it a break for a few weeks, at least a day in
>>> between
>>> each post. Hearing the same words over and over on multiple posts is
>>> getting
>>> old. Like a couple of us mentioned yesterday, it's entertaining to have a
>>> structured/level headed debate but it gets old once the profanity comes
>>> out
>>> and you keep spinning your wheels. My thoughts and you MICROSOFT given
>>> rights to be here.
>>>
>
 
Re: OEM

Actually I was just sitting here analyzing all the discussion on this
subject and realized something.

Some said if I push vista to my six year old machine, I would need at least
2 gigs of RAM.

Hell, my new (six month old store bought preloaded OEM) machine only has 512
MB with vista. It needs 2 gigs??? Is that why many people on this forum ask
for tips to remove/shut down hidden services??


"Alias" <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote in message
news:uFndCeDhIHA.3780@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>>> will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>>>
>>> Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate.
>>> Figure that one out!
>>
>> You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
>> However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
>> but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
>> especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
>> License rather than a Retail license.
>
> Um, to buy a copy of a generic OEM, be it XP or Vista, one has to also buy
> a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard.
>
>> It's all about cash-flow, folks.
>
> It certainly isn't about concern for the paying customer.
>
> Alias
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uCU8FzqgIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Never purchase software on eBay! It has been found that over
>>>> 50% of the software offered for sale on auction web sites is
>>>> actually misrepresented, counterfeit and thus useless!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carey Frisch
>>>> Microsoft MVP
>>>> Windows Shell/User
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> "DM" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I posted the below in XP's help_and_support forum but I don't think
>>>> that
>>>> forum is watched as much as this vista one is. The core question can be
>>>> answered as if I were doing this with a vista product.
>>>>
>>>> --------original post-------------------
>>>>
>>>> I want to purchase XP Pro w/ SP2 from someone on eBay. They claim it is
>>>> "Brand New! Genuine from Microsoft! w/ TECH Support"
>>>>
>>>> The only thing is it is an OEM version.
>>>>
>>>> I've never bought an operating system by it's self without being
>>>> preinstalled before. Will this OEM version work for me? What are the
>>>> limitations on OEM versions?
>>>>
>>>> I am replacing my current XP Pro operating system with a new one
>>>> because I
>>>> locked the system up by playing with the security policy. Yea, dumb but
>>>> I
>>>> was learning and got carried away.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank and Alias please remain calm with this one. You're having enough
>>>> fun
>>>> with other posts. You know, I bet you're both either the same person or
>>>> programmers/gamers sitting across the room/town from one another just
>>>> having
>>>> fun. You know there are more appropriate forums for you two with the
>>>> language you use. Give it a break for a few weeks, at least a day in
>>>> between
>>>> each post. Hearing the same words over and over on multiple posts is
>>>> getting
>>>> old. Like a couple of us mentioned yesterday, it's entertaining to have
>>>> a
>>>> structured/level headed debate but it gets old once the profanity comes
>>>> out
>>>> and you keep spinning your wheels. My thoughts and you MICROSOFT given
>>>> rights to be here.
>>>>
>>
 
Re: OEM

"DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ltX7dEhIHA.6092@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Actually I was just sitting here analyzing all the discussion on this
> subject and realized something.
>
> Some said if I push vista to my six year old machine, I would need at
> least 2 gigs of RAM.
>
> Hell, my new (six month old store bought preloaded OEM) machine only has
> 512 MB with vista. It needs 2 gigs??? Is that why many people on this
> forum ask for tips to remove/shut down hidden services??
>

You can run Vista on 1GB but don't expect all the bells and whistles to work
quickly...

MS has this never-ending ability to totally under-specify the amount of RAM
needed to run its operating systems with any sort of performance. If you
look at the system requirements for XP, it STILL says that you can run XP on
128 MB RAM. Everyone has been saying for several years that 512 MB is really
now the minimum required. MS just DON'T seem to change their web sites to
reflect received wisdom.
I don't run XP on anything less than 1GB RAM now, especially with IE7 and
Office 2007...
 
Re: OEM

So what you're saying is every (most) OEMer knows this trend, "never-ending
ability...," they could account for it for all new software when building
machines. Say if MS says min req are 512, OEMers use 1 gig.

Or does this throw a different ripple in the time space continuum?



"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:63q5qpF28f78bU1@mid.individual.net...
> "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23ltX7dEhIHA.6092@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Actually I was just sitting here analyzing all the discussion on this
>> subject and realized something.
>>
>> Some said if I push vista to my six year old machine, I would need at
>> least 2 gigs of RAM.
>>
>> Hell, my new (six month old store bought preloaded OEM) machine only has
>> 512 MB with vista. It needs 2 gigs??? Is that why many people on this
>> forum ask for tips to remove/shut down hidden services??
>>
>
> You can run Vista on 1GB but don't expect all the bells and whistles to
> work quickly...
>
> MS has this never-ending ability to totally under-specify the amount of
> RAM needed to run its operating systems with any sort of performance. If
> you look at the system requirements for XP, it STILL says that you can run
> XP on 128 MB RAM. Everyone has been saying for several years that 512 MB
> is really now the minimum required. MS just DON'T seem to change their web
> sites to reflect received wisdom.
> I don't run XP on anything less than 1GB RAM now, especially with IE7 and
> Office 2007...
>
 
Re: OEM

"DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23pfEjuEhIHA.6032@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> So what you're saying is every (most) OEMer knows this trend,
> "never-ending ability...," they could account for it for all new software
> when building machines. Say if MS says min req are 512, OEMers use 1 gig.
>
> Or does this throw a different ripple in the time space continuum?
>

42!
 
Re: OEM

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:03:41 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Thanks again to all. It's a good thing I am close to being a lawyer and can
>read the legal mumbo jumbo in the clauses. Until now I really never looked
>at the extra fine print. Always stopped at the hearsay, don't do this or
>that. My fault for not asking the right people or reading before.
>
>However, as I mentioned, I have other than Microsoft products "licenses"
>that spell out can not be transferred/sold/etc. at all. After reading
>everyone's replies, sounds like Microsoft is a little more consumer friendly
>and isn't as greedy as other software companies.
>
>But, now I know how to assess for a good product and vendor to buy that
>product.
>
>Also, like Alias mentioned, I think there is an educational issue with the
>little guy "common end user" believing they are buying a product rather than
>the agreement if you will.

I tend to agree. The problem is caused by a lack of education. But
this is certainly not Microsoft's fault in any way. Microsoft has
gone out of their way to educate their users. If those users prefer
to listen to idiots in Forums like this one rather than Microsoft,
that is their choice.

Perhaps our High School teachers should teach their students the
difference between a "license to use a software product" and a "title
deed" to a software product.

We are being left behind by the rest of the world because of our
idiotic Academic systems here in the States.


--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:52:09 +0100, Alias
<iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote:

>Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>>> will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>>>
>>> Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate. Figure
>>> that one out!
>>
>> You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
>> However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
>> but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
>> especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
>> License rather than a Retail license.
>
>Um, to buy a copy of a generic OEM, be it XP or Vista, one has to also
>buy a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard.
>
>> It's all about cash-flow, folks.
>
>It certainly isn't about concern for the paying customer.
>
>Alias

You know, "alias", sometimes you have a lot on the ball. But
sometimes you show your idiocy, such as claiming that one MUST
purchase "a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard."

This is simply NOT SO!!!
Generic OEMs may be purchased by anyone, as long as he/she/it
purchases them with a "necessary hardware item". This may be
something as inexpensive as a power cord or cheapie mouse.

While OEM versions of Windows previous to XP required the purchase of
a motherboard, hd, or an entire Computer, with the release of XP, such
draconian requirements were softened considerably, to such an extent
that MANY local computer stores will sell such copies even without the
purchase of "a necessary hardware item", or will include that
"necessary hardware item" in the price of the product.

PLEASE, friend, STOP spreading F.U.D.


--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

"Donald L McDaniel" <orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote in message
news:pm1gt3l84f6sb700uu0njujosq69ovollb@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:03:41 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Thanks again to all. It's a good thing I am close to being a lawyer and
>>can
>>read the legal mumbo jumbo in the clauses. Until now I really never looked
>>at the extra fine print. Always stopped at the hearsay, don't do this or
>>that. My fault for not asking the right people or reading before.
>>
>>However, as I mentioned, I have other than Microsoft products "licenses"
>>that spell out can not be transferred/sold/etc. at all. After reading
>>everyone's replies, sounds like Microsoft is a little more consumer
>>friendly
>>and isn't as greedy as other software companies.
>>
>>But, now I know how to assess for a good product and vendor to buy that
>>product.
>>
>>Also, like Alias mentioned, I think there is an educational issue with the
>>little guy "common end user" believing they are buying a product rather
>>than
>>the agreement if you will.
>
> I tend to agree. The problem is caused by a lack of education. But
> this is certainly not Microsoft's fault in any way. Microsoft has
> gone out of their way to educate their users.

Eh? When? How is not printing the main terms of the EULA on the OUTSIDE of
the box "educating" the consumer? The average consumer a) doesn't even SEE
the EULA until the packaging has been opened and the CD/DVD is in their
machine, and b) doesn't bother to even scan the EULA, they just click
"Accept". How is that educating the consumer?
 
Re: OEM

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:15:45 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
wrote:

>So what you're saying is every (most) OEMer knows this trend, "never-ending
>ability...," they could account for it for all new software when building
>machines. Say if MS says min req are 512, OEMers use 1 gig.
>
>Or does this throw a different ripple in the time space continuum?

That certainly sounds reasonable to me. Always DOUBLE (or triple)
what Microsoft says is the MINIMUM, and you will probably be ok.

Current received wisdom is 2 GB DDR2 RAM for Vista (running at a
minimum of 667MHz).

This means your FSB must be at least 667MHZ: 1066MHz would be much
better. Your FSB needs to run at twice the speed of the memory
itself, if one wants to use Dual-Channel memory. Else, the speed of
the memory will be HALVED by the OS.

I'm sure that there are others who would disagree. But this has been
my experience over the past 20 years or so.


>
>
>
>"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:63q5qpF28f78bU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23ltX7dEhIHA.6092@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Actually I was just sitting here analyzing all the discussion on this
>>> subject and realized something.
>>>
>>> Some said if I push vista to my six year old machine, I would need at
>>> least 2 gigs of RAM.
>>>
>>> Hell, my new (six month old store bought preloaded OEM) machine only has
>>> 512 MB with vista. It needs 2 gigs??? Is that why many people on this
>>> forum ask for tips to remove/shut down hidden services??
>>>
>>
>> You can run Vista on 1GB but don't expect all the bells and whistles to
>> work quickly...
>>
>> MS has this never-ending ability to totally under-specify the amount of
>> RAM needed to run its operating systems with any sort of performance. If
>> you look at the system requirements for XP, it STILL says that you can run
>> XP on 128 MB RAM. Everyone has been saying for several years that 512 MB
>> is really now the minimum required. MS just DON'T seem to change their web
>> sites to reflect received wisdom.
>> I don't run XP on anything less than 1GB RAM now, especially with IE7 and
>> Office 2007...
>>

--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
 
Re: OEM

Are we suppose to be able to read before graduating high school?

I can say this without offending anyone because I am one of them, the fat
lazy American syndrome has taken over the subject.

I remember when the household PC was rare. Everyone was scared to push any
button. Felt like they were synchronizing launch codes for ICBM missiles or
something. Now, everyone hits every button so fast to get to their favorite
past time application.

You're right Gordon, we all just "they just click "Accept"" Worry about the
warning when something starts not to work the way we need it to. Taking
forum like this for granted. If we were to read the warning before hitting
yes or ok, the program would still work. Or for this subject, probably
wouldn't buy as much stuff and get the right thing the first time. But, how
would we stimulate the economy then? HAHAHA!!!



"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:63qg51F28bpokU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Donald L McDaniel" <orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pm1gt3l84f6sb700uu0njujosq69ovollb@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:03:41 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Thanks again to all. It's a good thing I am close to being a lawyer and
>>>can
>>>read the legal mumbo jumbo in the clauses. Until now I really never
>>>looked
>>>at the extra fine print. Always stopped at the hearsay, don't do this or
>>>that. My fault for not asking the right people or reading before.
>>>
>>>However, as I mentioned, I have other than Microsoft products "licenses"
>>>that spell out can not be transferred/sold/etc. at all. After reading
>>>everyone's replies, sounds like Microsoft is a little more consumer
>>>friendly
>>>and isn't as greedy as other software companies.
>>>
>>>But, now I know how to assess for a good product and vendor to buy that
>>>product.
>>>
>>>Also, like Alias mentioned, I think there is an educational issue with
>>>the
>>>little guy "common end user" believing they are buying a product rather
>>>than
>>>the agreement if you will.
>>
>> I tend to agree. The problem is caused by a lack of education. But
>> this is certainly not Microsoft's fault in any way. Microsoft has
>> gone out of their way to educate their users.
>
> Eh? When? How is not printing the main terms of the EULA on the OUTSIDE of
> the box "educating" the consumer? The average consumer a) doesn't even SEE
> the EULA until the packaging has been opened and the CD/DVD is in their
> machine, and b) doesn't bother to even scan the EULA, they just click
> "Accept". How is that educating the consumer?
>
 
Re: OEM

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:52:09 +0100, Alias
> <iamalias@removethisgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:43:38 +0100, "DM" <themusgravefamily@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Many thanks to all. I have come to the conclusion that, as an amateur, I
>>>> will not purchase any OEM products; especially from eBay.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I was once told that over 60% of all statistics are inaccurate. Figure
>>>> that one out!
>>> You've probably made a very wise decision. I certainly commend you.
>>> However, many cannot afford the retail price for Vista ($199-$399),
>>> but can afford the OEM price ($119-$159). Which is why many,
>>> especially those who build their own rigs, opt to pay for an OEM
>>> License rather than a Retail license.
>> Um, to buy a copy of a generic OEM, be it XP or Vista, one has to also
>> buy a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard.
>>
>>> It's all about cash-flow, folks.
>> It certainly isn't about concern for the paying customer.
>>
>> Alias
>
> You know, "alias", sometimes you have a lot on the ball. But
> sometimes you show your idiocy, such as claiming that one MUST
> purchase "a CPU, RAM, hard drive and motherboard."
>
> This is simply NOT SO!!!
> Generic OEMs may be purchased by anyone, as long as he/she/it
> purchases them with a "necessary hardware item". This may be
> something as inexpensive as a power cord or cheapie mouse.

Not where I live.

>
> While OEM versions of Windows previous to XP required the purchase of
> a motherboard, hd, or an entire Computer, with the release of XP, such
> draconian requirements were softened considerably, to such an extent
> that MANY local computer stores will sell such copies even without the
> purchase of "a necessary hardware item", or will include that
> "necessary hardware item" in the price of the product.

Not where I live.

>
> PLEASE, friend, STOP spreading F.U.D.

It appears that MS removed that requirement from generic OEMs in the USA
but in Spain, you have to buy a CPU, RAM, motherboard and hard drive or
you can't buy either a generic XP or Vista. Most store require that you
buy an entire computer before they will sell it to you.

Alias
 
Re: OEM

Gordon

Purchasing Software is like buying any other product. You wouldn't buy a
car, television set, home or anything else without making sure what your
rights as a consumer are.

Placing the EULA on the outside of the box just would not work. Microsoft
makes the EULA very easy to access.

Retail Software License Terms:
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx


--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience


"Gordon" <gbplinux@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:63qg51F28bpokU1@mid.individual.net...
> Eh? When? How is not printing the main terms of the EULA on the OUTSIDE of
> the box "educating" the consumer? The average consumer a) doesn't even SEE
> the EULA until the packaging has been opened and the CD/DVD is in their
> machine, and b) doesn't bother to even scan the EULA, they just click
> "Accept". How is that educating the consumer?
>
 
Re: OEM

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" <rv@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:DC9CF19E-BC58-4184-B543-512BED50A3C1@microsoft.com...
> Gordon
>
> Purchasing Software is like buying any other product. You wouldn't buy a
> car, television set, home or anything else without making sure what your
> rights as a consumer are.
>
> Placing the EULA on the outside of the box just would not work. Microsoft
> makes the EULA very easy to access.

But NOT in the shop, where you buy it!

>
> Retail Software License Terms:
> http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>

yes, if you know WHERE to look.
Most consumers do NOT know where to look for that....
 
Re: OEM

Gordon wrote:

> "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <rv@invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:DC9CF19E-BC58-4184-B543-512BED50A3C1@microsoft.com...
>> Gordon
>>
>> Purchasing Software is like buying any other product. You wouldn't buy a
>> car, television set, home or anything else without making sure what your
>> rights as a consumer are.
>>
>> Placing the EULA on the outside of the box just would not work. Microsoft
>> makes the EULA very easy to access.
>
> But NOT in the shop, where you buy it!
>
>>
>> Retail Software License Terms:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>>
>
> yes, if you know WHERE to look.
> Most consumers do NOT know where to look for that....

Well thanks to another "helpful" MVP they do now! Only problem is that to
read his informative post, they have to first install Windoze. That's
another Microsoft idea of making things easy for the consumer.

Cheers.

--
What does Bill Gates use?
http://tinyurl.com/2zxhdl

Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.

Be Afraid ... Be Very Afraid ... of Francis' RELATIVES!

Frank, hard at work on his Vista computer all day:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm
 
Back
Top